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The Dutch & Dutch 8Cs are remarkable speakers..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1291
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronGarrett View Post
The pops I'm getting are exactly like this.
What was the remedy for your problem?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1292
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
What was the remedy for your problem?
The problem was the wifi setting on the Raspberry Pi. I switched to ethernet and the clicks and pops went away.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1293
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronGarrett View Post
The problem was the wifi setting on the Raspberry Pi. I switched to ethernet and the clicks and pops went away.
So it was related to the source and not the D&D?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1294
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
I’ve had the AES connection to the 8Cs make a click and then stop working all together (no sound) when changing sample rates with my Lynx AES16e. Don’t have this issue with my RME MADI FX. If I unplug and replug the AES cable (when the sound stops working connected with the Lynx), sound comes back as normal. My computer is in a machine room so cable length (25ft) could be an issue, but it makes me wonder if the clicking sound might be related to what the 8C is connected to and how?

Hope you guys can figure it out!
Just curious: what was the issue and remedy?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1295
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
So it was related to the source and not the D&D?
As far as I can tell.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1296
Lives for gear
 
Benj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
Just curious: what was the issue and remedy?
The issues I’ve had with the 8Cs over 6 months are these:

8Cs not staying connected to Internet. Solution was to buy a wireless extender and plug 8Cs directly instead of connecting them to my computer Ethernet ports. Still lose connectivity, but not nearly as often (once a month instead of zero connectivity at one point)... quick fix involves replugging Ethernet cable and sometimes having to restart the 8C.

Sound/connection cuts out when changing sample rate or clock source on Lynx aes16e sound card. Solution, replug aes cable and sound immediately returns.

Repetative DC bursts coming from 8Cs. This only happened once and seemed to be coming from the 8Cs themselves (bursts continued after unplugging AES cables). Solution was to power off-on 8Cs. This is the most concerning thing that has happened... as I’m sure the speakers would have been damaged if I wasn’t there. So do I need to turn off the 8Cs when not at studio? What caused this? I PM’d Matthijs here on Gearslutz and also messaged Dutch and Dutch through their support page but never heard back from anyone. Also a bit concerning...

Incredible speakers... couldn’t imaging being without them!

Last edited by Benj; 3 weeks ago at 05:35 AM.. Reason: Name correction
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1297
Lives for gear
 
nomatic's Avatar
Did you call Tyner?

He is about as responsive as any company audio rep I have met.
give him a buzz 1-310-402-9385
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1298
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Benj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomatic View Post
Did you call Tyner?

He is about as responsive as any company audio rep I have met.
give him a buzz 1-310-402-9385
The only thing I'm really worried about is the DC blasts. Martijn said he wanted to look at the logs of my speakers to see exactly what happened, but I never got a response.

The internet connectivity issue was annoying and D&D tried helping but it was something that I ended up solving on my own. The loss of sound when changing sample rates is not happening very often over hear because I'm not changing sample rate with my Lynx card very often (generally a capture device parked at 96kHz). So I haven't had much need to contact Tyner, but I have talked to him and he was a very nice guy. My speakers are currently working well and I'm getting a lot of good work done... just a bit worried about that DC blast incident.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1299
Gear Head
 

Anyone have these set up with a sub properly? If so, how have you done it re: time aligning?

Having a tricky time getting these to work with subs even in low-latency (less dsp) mode.

The sub output is clearly faster than the mains with their DSP. I would really love to be able to delay the output of the sub in the web interface.

My searches online for time aligning subwoofers with DSP mains have proved fruitless so far.

Cheers
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1300
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbob View Post
Anyone have these set up with a sub properly? If so, how have you done it re: time aligning?

Having a tricky time getting these to work with subs even in low-latency (less dsp) mode.

The sub output is clearly faster than the mains with their DSP. I would really love to be able to delay the output of the sub in the web interface.

My searches online for time aligning subwoofers with DSP mains have proved fruitless so far.

Cheers
The use of a separate sub is not supported yet. The plug is there, but it is meant for a future expansion of the functionality. So far most users have not found a need of a separate sub with the 8c's. I cannot imagine how a good balance can be retained if there would be even more bass than the 8c's already have. What sort of need for more bass power do you have?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1301
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I cannot imagine how a good balance can be retained if there would be even more bass than the 8c's already have. What sort of need for more bass power do you have?
I was thinking the same when reading the above post.


@ billbob - are you sure you really need a sub w/the 8Cs? Have you tried changing the bass and sub params in the app?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1302
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
I was thinking the same when reading the above post.


@ billbob - are you sure you really need a sub w/the 8Cs? Have you tried changing the bass and sub params in the app?
Cheers Jeff and Earcatcher

I absolutely love the response of the 8c's but there is important info for me from roughly 18-35hz. I do a combination of deep electronic music but also a lot of scoring for picture (most important). For one side it's about impact (when I'm working on my own tracks) but also making sure I'm connecting with that super low stuff during picture.

I have gone deep into the app settings + PEQ w/ REW etc but I just focus on using the PEQ settings as opposed to changing the bass parameters since that tends to make more of a bump for me from say 35-50 as opposed to the 20-35 range I'm keen to thicken up.

The sub out does send a full range (lower than the 8c's) out currently. I remember them mentioning more of a full sub out feature set coming, wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something other users might have found.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1303
Gear Maniac
Hi all,

My wife and I decided to go to Nashville for our anniversary. Sure enough, I had to go and check on Dutch & Dutch at Vintage King. I really did not want to like them. I have Barefoots MM45 and was ready to buy Subs 45. I’ve listened to Barefoots MM26, MM12, and Dutch Dutch. What to say, last night I couldn’t sleep. I was thinking how I’m going to Ditch & Ditch everything, and those D&D to get asap. Tomorrow, I will go again to VK. I have to hear that low end again.

Question. When I buy D&D, should I keep my Crane Song Avocet II and use D&D analog inputs, or lets say better option would be to buy Lynx Hilo and go fully digital, to bypass extra conversion from D/A!?

Thanks

Vlad

Last edited by Solic; 4 weeks ago at 05:34 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1304
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic View Post
Hi all,

My wife and I decided to go to Nashville for our anniversary. Sure enough, I had to go and check on Dutch & Dutch at Vintage King. I really did not want to like them. I have Barefoots MM45 and was ready to buy Subs 45. I’ve listened to Barefoots MM26, MM12, and Dutch Dutch. What to say, last night I couldn’t sleep. I was thinking how I’m going to Ditch & Ditch everything, and those D&D to get asap. Tomorrow, I will go again to VK. I have to hear that low end again.

Question. When I buy D&D, should I keep my Crane Song Avocet II and use D&D analog inputs, or lets say better option would be to buy Lynx Hilo and go fully digital, to bypass extra conversion from D/A!?

Thanks

Vlad
Better option is to go Lynx Hilo or RME ADI-2 Pro (even better option in my opinion) and run them digital through AES.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1305
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Better option is to go Lynx Hilo or RME ADI-2 Pro (even better option in my opinion) and run them digital through AES.
Thanks Jantex, will test them both.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1306
Gear Addict
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 

If you do test the RME, and you are using digital to input to the 8Cs, make sure you set the ‘digital out source’ to ‘main out’ you will see it in the manual under ‘device mode’ if you leave it on default you can’t attenuate volume.
Keith
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1307
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
If you do test the RME, and you are using digital to input to the 8Cs, make sure you set the ‘digital out source’ to ‘main out’ you will see it in the manual under ‘device mode’ if you leave it on default you can’t attenuate volume.
Keith
Thanks Keith. Good to know. When I get D&D, I will test both units.

Besides digital monitoring, how is the RME Pro A/D- D/A overall conversion comparing to Hilo?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1308
Gear Addict
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 

I had a Hilo when they came out, super bit of kit, so versatile , I have also been very pleased with the RME ADI components, I would buy on features. Sound quality is going to be very similar if not identical.
Keith
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1309
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic View Post
When I buy D&D, should I keep my Crane Song Avocet II and use D&D analog inputs, or lets say better option would be to buy Lynx Hilo and go fully digital, to bypass extra conversion from D/A!?
Apart from the options already mentioned I recommend you have a look at the Lake People DAT RS 05, which is not a converter but a digital "reconditioner", with an excellent digital volume control.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1310
Gear Head
 

For anyone wondering about sub integration (aside from crossover etc) if you just want to time delay the sub you have, I was sent this from a friend, looks like it could work. I just ordered one, will report back for anyone wondering.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ontroller.html
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1311
Lives for gear
 
shelterr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic View Post
Hi all,

My wife and I decided to go to Nashville for our anniversary. Sure enough, I had to go and check on Dutch & Dutch at Vintage King. I really did not want to like them. I have Barefoots MM45 and was ready to buy Subs 45. I’ve listened to Barefoots MM26, MM12, and Dutch Dutch. What to say, last night I couldn’t sleep. I was thinking how I’m going to Ditch & Ditch everything, and those D&D to get asap. Tomorrow, I will go again to VK. I have to hear that low end again.

Question. When I buy D&D, should I keep my Crane Song Avocet II and use D&D analog inputs, or lets say better option would be to buy Lynx Hilo and go fully digital, to bypass extra conversion from D/A!?

Thanks

Vlad
I tried the digital route and honestly, the magic of the Avocet IIa easily won out over any perceived benefit of bypassed conversion. Test it for yourself, but I thought it was a no brainer to stick with the Avocet.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1312
Here for the gear
 

@ Earcatcher Do you use a DAT RS 05 with your D&Ds? Did you ever have issues with it?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1313
Gear Addict
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 

Sound on Sound have just published Phil Ward’s review of the 8Cs, it is a cracking summation.
Quote,
‘Reviewing monitors as capable as the 8C is
a joy. Leaving aside all their technical ability and engineering quality, at the end of the
day the result is fantastic monitoring and wonderful music. If you’re in the fortunate position of being able to afford the 8Cs, well, I’m envious.’

Keith
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbob View Post
Anyone have these set up with a sub properly? If so, how have you done it re: time aligning?
I’m in the same boat and need to figure this out. I’m scoring and mixing 5.1 and need to integrate a sub, partially for the super low information but also because I’m mixing to a theatrical .1 channel and need to know how much to send to the theater’s sub!

One option if you’re only working in stereo is simply get a sub with built in crossover. Send your stereo signal there and it will cut off everything you don’t need to send to the Dutch. Genelec subs might even be able to keep it in the digital realm if you’re not using the analog inputs on the Dutch.

But I do need to work out a system where I can use the Dutch in a surround set up, and have them crossover as part of a 5.1 setup. ... hopefully very soon!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1315
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by etchcube View Post
@ Earcatcher Do you use a DAT RS 05 with your D&Ds? Did you ever have issues with it?
No, I use Lynx Hilo, but I know the implementation of the level control from my Violectric DAC V800, which is great.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1316
Gear Head
 

Update re: the time delay unit i ordered. I just set it up this morning and its working perfectly. It is mono, not stereo. You can adjust the delay per sub though. Very quick and easy to get going.

Its called: RDL Pro Audio Delay Controller RUADL2 (wall wart power supply needed as well, I bought RDL PS-24AS Switching Power Supply)


Quote:
Originally Posted by South Brokelyn View Post
I’m in the same boat and need to figure this out. I’m scoring and mixing 5.1...
I have a crossover coming as well, cheers, in the meantime, try this unit above if you need time domain help. I had to add ms to match "low latency disabled" setting in the 8c.

Last edited by billbob; 3 weeks ago at 12:19 AM.. Reason: clarification
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1317
Here for the gear
 

More on the Townshend Isolation Bars

I asked out the Townshend Isolation Bars on the previous page and some replies were (understandably) skeptical. I am keeping an open mind as I consider them for use with the 8c.

Since someone mentioned Sorbothane pads as an alternative, I found this page comparing the respective isolation properties to be interesting (if accurate):
http://www.townshendaudio.com/the-ri...mic-isolation/

They are very expensive, but I’m curious how much of an impact they will have.

Just sharing...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1318
Gear Head
 

Sometimes to decide whom to marry is less complicated. This is a very long post. Nighttime lecture.

I tested the D&D at home for a couple of days and the KII 2x at my dealer (total 5h listening time). D&D was my favorite from the beginning! At the High End Show my first impression of the KII was not that good.

My Summary

Usability: The KII wins here by a big margin. The remote with all the settings at hand (without web interface) is easy to use. First I thought the upcoming concept of D&D to change the volume over Roon will win and I already tested it successfully. But to have e.g. an Apple Remote to adjust the volume is far easier, faster and does not require to have the tablet at hand. In addition the adjustment is more precise with the Knob or remote than with the slider in Roon! Sometimes you need the chance to get your hands on to experience things.
When you push the middle button of the Apple Remote the KIIs dim immediately which is also a nice detail.
Auto On/Off is also a very nice detail as the addition of Toslink e.g. to attach the TV to it! If you tilt the remote with a stand, you can also see the volume setting from your couch. Lots of display dimming options are convenient.
D&D wins with the Parametric EQ and the more easy adjustment of room boundaries by measuring it and choose the right value in the menu. KII should add a EQ to make their approach more complete! Overall the SW of D&D needs improvements due to speed and minor bugs which occur (e.g. unresponsiveness). New functionalities like subwoofer or Roon are still missing even announced appr. 2 years ago. The track record of deploying new features is better with KII than D&D (e.g. Roon). What also bothers me a bit: the speakers are connected to the internet all the time - I don’t know or have seen any precautions to avoid access to it. No PW or other security measure.

Built quality: Even if D&D uses a heavy & solid oak enclosure, the KIIs with all the metal and „plastic“ has a very nice appearance and felt to it. I would say different but on par. Due to the size and material, I was very negatively biased towards the KII from the beginning. Design has something to do with taste so I skip that. I love wood, but nice (funky) colors are also appealing.

Most important: Sound quality

I would love to merge these two speakers into one! But this is “manageable” (later more on that). It’s mostly about the settings.

D&D is more welcoming from the first tone out of the box. Lots of bass, punch, organic.
KII has definitely more depth in soundstage, better placement, “right size” of objects and more details which gives you a better live-like experience. You are literally sinking into the music and wake up the next song from that visit into the recording studio. They have very precise bass only(!) when the recording inherits it. The D&D have a slight bass in (most times) everything and more pronounced mids. Hard to describe. With D&D, all objects are bigger (sometimes far bigger) and more like a wall in front of you. KII shows a good sense of space and right sizing of voices and instruments. The KII are also very fast sounding - hard to describe. Rhythmic music becomes a real joy and you hear a lot more details even if it’s “sounding” faster. D&D more relaxed, which comforts you a lot. I would say the sound of the D&D is more organic/solid and the KII has a magical air to it. On the downside the KII sound a little too bright/dry due to their very(!) neutral setting. D&D has the right balance out of the box. That’s the part I would like the merge the two systems: Give me the soundstage, size and detail(!) of KII with the tonal balance and bass punch of D&D. Good news: You can adjust the KII to your preference and keep all the benefits. But: The headroom of the D&D is higher if you really need it in larger damped rooms.
In this regard the KII can’t compete. But within normal listening levels, there is no issue. With the D&D you can’t adjust soundstage, depth or detail. But you have more headroom and warmer tonal balance out of the box without lots of adjustment.

As you see: you should buy them both. Just kidding.

My decision is to go with the KII due to the soundstage and details which gives a very very good sense of accuracy + usability + SW implementation. To get it “relaxed” sounding (for my taste) adjustments are needed. But this is my taste.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1319
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
You can adjust the KII to your preference..
How do you do that?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1320
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
How do you do that?
By internally decreasing e.g. treble or using the EQ within Roon. See also the review of Mitch in which he described it. The KII don’t inherit the Parametric EQ of D&D which is a downside for sure.
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