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The Dutch & Dutch 8Cs are remarkable speakers..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1261
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Benj's Avatar
I’ve had the AES connection to the 8Cs make a click and then stop working all together (no sound) when changing sample rates with my Lynx AES16e. Don’t have this issue with my RME MADI FX. If I unplug and replug the AES cable (when the sound stops working connected with the Lynx), sound comes back as normal. My computer is in a machine room so cable length (25ft) could be an issue, but it makes me wonder if the clicking sound might be related to what the 8C is connected to and how?

Hope you guys can figure it out!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1262
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
The guys of D&D should investigate in that. Does it happen when you start a track and a Moment before starting the playback or does it happen during I would think this is something about the software and muting the amp/dac.
During. Just happened. I'm running a Canakit into A Gustard U-12 so maybe the problem is in the chain. It comes and goes, which is odd.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1263
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Benj's Avatar
Hmmm...
At the studio working... went to wash some dishes and came back into the control room and both of my 8Cs were experiencing periodic DC pops. I'd say one pop every 10-15 seconds with each speaker maybe a second apart. The DC pop wasn't loud, but it was moving the front woofer a considerable amount. I first unplugged the AES cable (assuming something had gone wrong with my computer/setup) but the DC pop's continued. I turned the 8Cs off and on and now they are back to normal, but this is a bit startling!

Has anyone else ever experienced this? I tend to keep my 8Cs on all the time, only turning them off if I'm out of the office for more than 2 days... which honestly doesn't happen as often as I'd like.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1264
Here for the gear
 

A writen review from John Darko
https://darko.audio/2019/05/unfinish...utch-dutch-8c/
To be continued..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1265
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matthijs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
I get small little ticks when changing sample rate with the AES inputs.
Changing sample rate of the AES signal is basically equivalent to abruptly unplugging the input (and then plugging it back it at the new sample rate). It should be popless if the audio is digital silence (all-zeros), but a pop or tick is pretty much unavoidable if any audio (or a DC offset) is present since there's simply no time to mute the audio smoothly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
I’ve had the AES connection to the 8Cs make a click and then stop working all together (no sound) when changing sample rates. If I unplug and replug the AES cable, sound comes back as normal.
Hmm, I think I've seen the state machine of the DSP's digital input misbehave when the stream stops and starts repeatedly with certain timing, but I've never had a way to reproduce it hence I haven't been able to investigate what's going on exactly or how to resolve it. Are your speakers connected to the internet? If so, if you tell me (PM is fine) their serial numbers and a date+time when this occurred I'll dig in the logs to see if I can figure out what's going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
At the studio working... went to wash some dishes and came back into the control room and both of my 8Cs were experiencing periodic DC pops. I'd say one pop every 10-15 seconds with each speaker maybe a second apart. The DC pop wasn't loud, but it was moving the front woofer a considerable amount. I first unplugged the AES cable (assuming something had gone wrong with my computer/setup) but the DC pop's continued. I turned the 8Cs off and on and now they are back to normal, but this is a bit startling!
This sounds really bizarre, and this is definitely the first time I've heard of anything like this. The behaviour sounds a bit like a DC signal was being sent to the amp and its protection was kicking in repeatedly, but this makes no sense to me since 1. there are DC-blocking filters and 2. when the AES input loses lock (e.g. when unplugging it), the speaker is muted automatically.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1266
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcA View Post
A writen review from John Darko
https://darko.audio/2019/05/unfinish...utch-dutch-8c/
To be continued..
Very similar to my findings, I too preferred the 8C's sound.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1267
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
Hmmm...
At the studio working... went to wash some dishes and came back into the control room and both of my 8Cs were experiencing periodic DC pops. I'd say one pop every 10-15 seconds with each speaker maybe a second apart. The DC pop wasn't loud, but it was moving the front woofer a considerable amount.
The pops I'm getting are exactly like this.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1268
Here for the gear
 

Any owners using the 8C nearfield? Can't help but wonder at the unpublished vertical dispersion, and hope it sounds as good as having a mid/high embedded (coincident) coaxial driver.

If anyone is listening to these from about arms distance: Hiss (my reference would be a JBL LSR) or total silence (EX: Elac Navis)? Does the balance of frequencies stay the same if you align your ears with the woofer vs the top of the cabinet, or does it get more bassy and more treble focuses, respectively, as you change positions? (EX: Genelec The Ones don't change the balance of frequencies, KEF doesn't much either, a 3 way DIY Swan I made doe.)

Looking at taking a trip out to listen to the 8C and Kii Three at Vintage King, but might wait to audition a Kali IN-8 when it comes out to compare.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1269
Here for the gear
 

I had the 8Cs in a nearfield situation. They were very good but not as good as now - at a distance of 1.6 meters. A coaxial speaker will always be better in a nearfield situation.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1270
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenswall View Post
Any owners using the 8C nearfield? Can't help but wonder at the unpublished vertical dispersion, and hope it sounds as good as having a mid/high embedded (coincident) coaxial driver.
The tweeter's waveguide is circular, so not only in the horizontal plane, but also in the vertical plane it has a very even dispersion. Therefore there is no change in sound within a reasonable listening window. I use mine at a distance of around 1.10m.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1271
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Ugh.having issues mid project[second time, same unit in 2 months]first bad sub amp now no audio at all.reset everything even pulled the amp assembly and reseated that.nada
Submitted a support request and emailed D&D staff Friday evening.
I'm wondering,they're busy guys,is D&D support not around on weekends?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1272
Here for the gear
 

I received my second pair of 8Cs on Friday. Just as it was with the first pair, one speaker arrived intact and one broken. The broken one has power but is not doing anything but making very loud banging noises from time to time. Same issue as with the first pair.

The first time the broken speaker was replaced within 2 weeks. The fault was a broken amp. If it's the same this time, I'm now worried about the fragility of these things. When I have to move one day, I worry that the vibrations in a truck alone could break something (even if it's only a soldering connection). I received 4 speakers in total, 2 were broken. A failure rate of 50%. If this is a common thing then their return handling must cost a fortune and it's a possible explanation why the production times are still quite long...

I would not be surprised if this was the same issue darko.audio was having.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1273
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by etchcube View Post
I received my second pair of 8Cs on Friday. Just as it was with the first pair, one speaker arrived intact and one broken. The broken one has power but is not doing anything but making very loud banging noises from time to time. Same issue as with the first pair.

The first time the broken speaker was replaced within 2 weeks. The fault was a broken amp. If it's the same this time, I'm now worried about the fragility of these things. When I have to move one day, I worry that the vibrations in a truck alone could break something (even if it's only a soldering connection). I received 4 speakers in total, 2 were broken. A failure rate of 50%. If this is a common thing then their return handling must cost a fortune and it's a possible explanation why the production times are still quite long...

I would not be surprised if this was the same issue darko.audio was having.
the one here just randomly stopped passing audio at low level playback.the led turned off but the back led's were on.just replaced the entire amp assembly last month!stressful as the attending client was pissed.I'm wondering if these can hang in the crazy pro audio world.for a home listening hifi guy its not a major disaster but as a professional studio tool this sh*t can't happen ..this often
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1274
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by etchcube View Post
I worry that the vibrations in a truck alone could break something (even if it's only a soldering connection).
If vibrations in a truck alone could break something, almost every monitor that arrived ANYWHERE in the world would be busted, and need to be returned. I am sure that is not the case.

I have had three pairs here, and none were DOA.

Cheers.
Old 1 week ago
  #1275
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nomatic's Avatar
I haven't had any hardware problems yet?
Old 1 week ago
  #1276
Gear Nut
 

Me neither. One year of trouble-free usage. It's been an absolute dream. Btw, a very good headphone pairing for the 8c with characteristics that translate really well back and forth is the Audeze LCD-MX4.
Old 1 week ago
  #1277
Gear Head
 

I listened to the D&D for one week at home and was instantly in love with them. Even without using the equalizer, just the boundary settings. Never heard something similar.

Yesterday I had the chance to audition the KII Three at my dealer. To be honest: A speaker in a plastic enclosure was for me a no go and I had some heavy prejudice.
The setup was not optimal: room with lots of windows and the boundary settings were on default. The BTX module was deactivated, I wanted a fair comparison. This impression is only Part I, because I will revisit the dealer in a week for longer listening. I spend 1,5h. It is not an A B comparison, so take it with a grain of salt.

Soundstage: KII has definitely the deeper soundstage and more air/space between instruments. It is very easy to „see“ things without closing eyes
Details: I heard more details with the KII. Listening to Lang Lang, you can here how he mourns and moves his head...you don't need to focus on it. Live like feeling!
Bass: Bass is plenty available, but without dialing in boundary conditions proper placement, the comparison is not fair at this point. The D&D have more pressure in my first impression and bouncing bass. As I said: unfair comparison because I auditioned them at the dealer and not at home

Summary: Well the KIIs are very fast and precise. Electronic music is cool to listen, as with the D&D. The DD have a slightly more warmth to it, but lack a little bit detail. Hard to say who is the winner. The KII open up a window to the recording, as the DD. But a bit better in my first impression. I will write another impression in the next two weeks.
--> I added in my next post a better summary for my impressions

One remark regarding built quality: overall the „plastic“ enclosure is really awesome and has a slightly better built quality than DD. Why? Every seem is right, the used metal is thick and brushed in high quality. DD has a very rigid oak enclosure, but the seems aren't precise as I would expect (due to the fact that wood has its tolerances). PS: But I am a very picky guy, so don't trust me

One additional plus is the remote: first I thought ot is too plasticy, but it is also fine! Nice small display to dial in all settings. Even with remote capabilities with an IR Remote. Auto On Off is also cool. Overall the impression of the KII is that you have a matured product (especially) SW- and (partly) HW-wise. On the other side: D&D has internet connection and auto-update, built in parametric equalizer, the setup of boundary conditions is easy as hell - the KII are from my point of view more challenging to setup.
Old 1 week ago
  #1278
Lives for gear
 

Man, I’m actually glad I never jumped ship and moved to these speakers... I can’t afford to have a speaker go down for an hour, let alone days!

And even if a pair hasn’t broken yet, the stress of knowing it could down down at any minute would be stressful as hell.

I’ll stick with the ATCs and Amphions
Old 1 week ago
  #1279
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
KII has definitely the deeper soundstage and more air/space between instruments.

I heard more details with the KII.
You listened in two different spaces, and by the time you listened to the Kiis, lost a good deal of information about the 8Cs (it's called Echo Data - look it up)... so, how exactly do you come to these conclusions?

--edit-- I might have that term wrong...

Last edited by Jeff Hayat; 1 week ago at 04:09 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #1280
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
You listened in two different spaces, and by the time you listened to the Kiis, lost a good deal of information about the 8Cs (it's called Echo Data - look it up)... so, how exactly do you come to these conclusions?
You are right. As I mentioned - take it with a grain of salt because it is not a A/B comparison.
I have some reference tracks which I think to memorize very good. That’s what my impression are based on. As by now they are both excellent but different.
To be honest: „more“ detail or „deeper“ soundstage aren’t things which buy me in and it also could differ fron room and setup. It is the overall emotion and fun what drives me as a domestic listener For this I need a couple of hours more and yet again a A/B comparison which won’t be easy to arrange.

For fun, emotion and "reality" the DD won my heart at home I try to explain it in my words: With the KIIs I tend to listen very focused into the details and enjoyed the soundstage like a scientist - the DD made me (no kidding!) dancing, shouting, some tears also dropped.

Sound is one part, the other is reliability and maturity: Lack of control, built quality variances and issues with Darko and other users here don’t create trust. Even if these are minor cases and forums tend to amplify things. They need time for improvements. BTW: For me as a domestic listener a "control" is not necessarily needed when Roon is implemented.
Old 6 days ago
  #1281
Gear Head
 

What are your recommendations for stands?
Old 6 days ago
  #1282
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by etchcube View Post
I received my second pair of 8Cs on Friday. Just as it was with the first pair, one speaker arrived intact and one broken. The broken one has power but is not doing anything but making very loud banging noises from time to time. Same issue as with the first pair.

The first time the broken speaker was replaced within 2 weeks. The fault was a broken amp. If it's the same this time, I'm now worried about the fragility of these things. When I have to move one day, I worry that the vibrations in a truck alone could break something (even if it's only a soldering connection). I received 4 speakers in total, 2 were broken. A failure rate of 50%. If this is a common thing then their return handling must cost a fortune and it's a possible explanation why the production times are still quite long...

I would not be surprised if this was the same issue darko.audio was having.
Just my experience: I got a demo pair of the 8c at home. They came with UPS in a flight case. They travelled to over 25 customers in that fashion. One of the speakers even hit the floor (fall from a stand on a radiator and then floor) and survived! Some deep scratches though but oak cabinet was intact.
What came a little bit loosen was the metal plane underneath of the speakers: I needed to tighten the screws, but I think this is normal due to the frequent transport. Some Loctite would help btw. One speakers did a "plop" noise when powering off (this could be a failure of the HW I think or due to the transport). Other than that, they worked fine for my audition over a week.
Old 6 days ago
  #1283
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John Moran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
What are your recommendations for stands?
build them yourself, it's not difficult
Old 6 days ago
  #1284
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
What are your recommendations for stands?
Boxes with packed with sand, either on the desk, or placed on any old sturdy stand that can take the weight.
Old 5 days ago
  #1285
Here for the gear
 

Anyone tried isolation platforms with the 8c

I am considering buying the 8c for home music listening and was thinking of placing them on a wooden counter rather than stands due to the room layout.

To reduce vibration and coloration, I was thinking of this isolation solution:
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-...rs-subwoofers/

Has anyone tried this or something similar? If so, can you chime in on their effectiveness?

Thanks!
Old 5 days ago
  #1286
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adeeb View Post
To reduce vibration and coloration, I was thinking of this isolation solution:
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-...rs-subwoofers/

Eliminate structure-borne feedback between the speaker and vibration sensitive equipment.

Potentially.

Eliminate irritating boom caused by coupling through the floor to adjacent rooms.

Potentially.

Produce a wider and deeper sound stage.

Nope.

Enhance clarity throughout the whole frequency range.

Nope.

Improve bass definition.

Nope.

Allow for neighbour friendly high level listening.

Nope.

If those things, and others like them, improved bass definition, enhance clarity throughout the whole frequency range, produced a wider and deeper sound stage, made them neighbour friendly, and just overall made the monitors sound better, why does D&D not make their own version, and ship the monitors with them? Why does no speaker manu do this? If the monitors actually sounded better in someone's home, or studio, don't you think the manus would want to see that happen?
Old 5 days ago
  #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Why does no speaker manu do this? If the monitors actually sounded better in someone's home, or studio, don't you think the manus would want to see that happen?
Not dealing with all your points but Genelec DOES. Those Iso Pods.
https://www.genelec.com/iso-pod-stand

Also Dynaudio shipped with IsoAcoustics.
Old 5 days ago
  #1288
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Not dealing with all your points but Genelec DOES. Those Iso Pods.
https://www.genelec.com/iso-pod-stand

Also Dynaudio shipped with IsoAcoustics.
Oh wow - new info for me... I was not aware of this.

Emailing Dynaudio now....
Old 5 days ago
  #1289
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstein View Post
What are your recommendations for stands?
I use the Atacama stands, affordable and the right size.

http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/c/spe...speaker-stands
Old 4 days ago
  #1290
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John Moran's Avatar
 

If you want real isolation pads for your application, look into Sorbothane. That's the real thing.
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