The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Telefunken M7 vs Neumann K47
Old 31st October 2017
  #31
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

There seems to also now be a brand called Maiku making k47's (and CK12's and k87's). Anyone have an opinion of it yet?
Old 1st November 2017
  #32
Gear Nut
 

I understand that K47 is not possible to buy right now.
It is only possible to buy K49.
Does anyone know where there is stocks of Neumann K47?
Old 1st November 2017
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Black Ninja's Avatar
 

Kk49 is the same U47 capsule! I guess...

Last edited by Black Ninja; 6th November 2017 at 12:02 PM..
Old 6th November 2017
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Just so the forum clearly understands, you're speaking about a Telefunken USA made M7 capsule in comparison to a vintage Neumann K47 capsule.
Correct. New production Tfunk USA M7 vs vintage neumann k47 (48)

kk48 is equivalent to kk47 or k47.

My understanding is that the K47s made for the U48 (kk48) were the best examples of the k47 because of the figure 8 pattern vs. omni in the u47. They really had to be perfect on both sides for the figure 8 to sound correct. Didn't have be so perfect for omni.
Old 6th November 2017
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
Black Ninja's Avatar
 

I think the difference between k49 and K47 is that the quality control of the rear capsule in K49 is better. But it's the same U47 capsule.
I never see one “K48”...
Old 6th November 2017
  #36
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
There seems to also now be a brand called Maiku making k47's (and CK12's and k87's). Anyone have an opinion of it yet?
No one?
Old 6th November 2017
  #37
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmouseS View Post
I understand that K47 is not possible to buy right now.
It is only possible to buy K49.
Does anyone know where there is stocks of Neumann K47?
k47 and 49 are the same.

At one point, the k49 supposedly had a tighter tolerance between front and back.

Since they all come off of the line with the same tight tolerance, it is now a k47/49.

There is also the same cap for the 47fet, which has the same two membranes and identical construction, save that you have to add a lead on the backside because it doesn't come wired.
Old 6th November 2017
  #38
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
There seems to also now be a brand called Maiku making k47's (and CK12's and k87's). Anyone have an opinion of it yet?
I changed one chinese k47 for a Maiku and i liked it a lottttt
Old 6th November 2017
  #39
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread, but also, has anyone any opinions on Haun's (MBHO's) k47? I am told it is the same build as early Neumann's and as good, but cheaper.....anyone heard one?
Old 6th November 2017
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I am told [Haun's K47 copy] is the same build as early Neumann's and as good, but cheaper.....anyone heard one?
I am not sure who would have the authority or credibility to tell you that.

Unlike other copies of parts of famous microphones, capsule design and manufacturing eludes reverse-engineering, so copiers always tap in the dark.*

Aside of backplate designs, which can be copied quite accurately (though few copiers make the effort), the true secret of the original greats is in the manufacturing process, and, to a lesser degree, in sourcing the polyester film:

Diaphragm pre-aging, heating, cooling, tensioning, further refinements and assembly.... these are secrets that Neumann (and, back then, AKG) would never let out. It's their guarantee to be viable into the future, despite the Chinese** constantly nibbling at their feet.

Haun is a superb manufacturer of capsules of high-end mics. But Haun, too, lacks the information to duplicate Neumann's manufacturing process. Therefore, chances are zero that his capsules will sound like Neumann's best.

And this notion of "as good but cheaper" remains wishful thinking, I believe. Where has that ever worked out for a highly sophisticated product? The moment it DOES work out, that product would inevitably rise in price to the level of the original (equal perceived value = equal price).

The only downfall I can see for a legacy company like Neumann would be if they fail to honor that legacy, and start cutting corners with materials or manufacturing processes. THEN Haun and others will have a chance im the premium marketplace.


* I should add transformer copies as well.

** I single out the Chinese, because, unlike other industrial societies, they know how to manufacture cheaply and in volume.
Old 7th November 2017
  #41
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
I am not sure who would have the authority or credibility to tell you that.

Unlike other copies of parts of famous microphones, capsule design and manufacturing eludes reverse-engineering, so copiers always tap in the dark.*

Aside of backplate designs, which can be copied quite accurately (though few copiers make the effort), the true secret of the original greats is in the manufacturing process, and, to a lesser degree, in sourcing the polyester film:

Diaphragm pre-aging, heating, cooling, tensioning, further refinements and assembly.... these are secrets that Neumann (and, back then, AKG) would never let out. It's their guarantee to be viable into the future, despite the Chinese** constantly nibbling at their feet.

Haun is a superb manufacturer of capsules of high-end mics. But Haun, too, lacks the information to duplicate Neumann's manufacturing process. Therefore, chances are zero that his capsules will sound like Neumann's best.

And this notion of "as good but cheaper" remains wishful thinking, I believe. Where has that ever worked out for a highly sophisticated product? The moment it DOES work out, that product would inevitably rise in price to the level of the original (equal perceived value = equal price).

The only downfall I can see for a legacy company like Neumann would be if they fail to honor that legacy, and start cutting corners with materials or manufacturing processes. THEN Haun and others will have a chance im the premium marketplace.


* I should add transformer copies as well.

** I single out the Chinese, because, unlike other industrial societies, they know how to manufacture cheaply and in volume.
As always, thank you for your thoughts, Klaus!

I don't want to name any names, but suffice to say the person who told me that indeed has quite the credibility when it comes to mics, and Neumann mics, if maybe not quite yours. Different way of hearing/reasoning. Also, I don't think he meant to say they sound identical but more it being a vague quality statement, not one claiming them being identical in sonics.

Any chance of sharing your impressions of Haun's k47, if you have specific thoughts about it?
Old 7th November 2017
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

I would love to share my impressions of the Haun version of Neumann's K47, but that would require that someone loans me such capsule for a week or so for testing.
Old 7th November 2017
  #43
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

If I had one it would be in the post today based on pure curiosity. Sounds like a great (potential lol) pr opportunity. Anyone from MBHO reading this?
Old 7th November 2017
  #44
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

I've never directly pulled out a Haun and had it replaced with an actual Neumann on the same mic body...

But I can say from using mics equipped with the Haun k47 caps, and then owning mics with the Haun ck12 and actual ck12...the Haun capsules are very high quality, and can yield a sound with an extreme 3D nature. Yet, they are different than the actual original brands. It's really hard to describe exactly HOW, especially when things start getting sonically close. A bit like describing the sonics of an SG vs a Les Paul. Both very similar, yet would be palpably but subtly different in direct a/b.

I don't know, but I would be surprised if the Haun k47 type cost substantially less than a Neumann.

In context of mic repair or custom mic builds...

I think a Haun ck12 from them is a great choice if someone can get Bock to put one of units he has exclusive on, through his custom shop...if one is looking for a modern production capsule up that alley.

For k47...you can still get the real deal.
Old 7th November 2017
  #45
Lives for gear
 
jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
No one?
I'm thinking of dropping their CK12 in a ELA M 251 clone I have that has a AMI transformer in it. Not a fair comparison but it would be replacing a cheap Chinese capsule so I'm going to take a wild guess and say it will likely be an audible upgrade. I'll report back.
Old 8th November 2017
  #46
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
I'm thinking of dropping their CK12 in a ELA M 251 clone I have that has a AMI transformer in it. Not a fair comparison but it would be replacing a cheap Chinese capsule so I'm going to take a wild guess and say it will likely be an audible upgrade. I'll report back.
Just FYI, the cap they make that is a c12 style and used in Bock/Soundelux mics is distinct from the other edge terminated capsule product...if I read you right, and you're talking about Haun/MBHO. The one supplied to Bock, to work with vintage mic type recreations, is a different cap and only supplied to them.

They did use to sell another c12 style edge terminated capsule that worked in a modular system, maybe they still do...may work great as well.
Old 8th November 2017
  #47
Lives for gear
 
jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Just FYI, the cap they make that is a c12 style and used in Bock/Soundelux mics is distinct from the other edge terminated capsule product...if I read you right, and you're talking about Haun/MBHO. The one supplied to Bock, to work with vintage mic type recreations, is a different cap and only supplied to them.

They did use to sell another c12 style edge terminated capsule that worked in a modular system, maybe they still do...may work great as well.
I was responding to Karloff's request for info about the Maiku capsules.
Old 15th January 2018
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Jimbo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
I'm thinking of dropping their CK12 in a ELA M 251 clone I have that has a AMI transformer in it. Not a fair comparison but it would be replacing a cheap Chinese capsule so I'm going to take a wild guess and say it will likely be an audible upgrade. I'll report back.
What are your thoughts on the Maiku CK12?

Thanks.
Old 26th January 2019
  #49
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
What are your thoughts on the Maiku CK12?

Thanks.
Chris Pritcher at Barbaric likes them a lot. Drop him a line and he'll give you the low down. He's used most if not all the capsules out there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #50
Gear Nut
I would really like to know how the handwritten numbers work on a k49 capsule. how can you decipher what year it comes. And what do these numbers say?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
Chris Pritcher at Barbaric likes them a lot. Drop him a line and he'll give you the low down. He's used most if not all the capsules out there.
I really enjoyed having Chris build me a mic. I sent him a Redline M7
Old 3 weeks ago
  #52
Gear Maniac
 

Hey Doc, how much was that Redline M7 shipped? I need to pick up my first for an RFT 7151-inspired build by Chris.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rec_Eng View Post
Hey Doc, how much was that Redline M7 shipped? I need to pick up my first for an RFT 7151-inspired build by Chris.
A little bit under $475
Old 3 weeks ago
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenSisi View Post
I would really like to know how the handwritten numbers work on a k49 capsule. how can you decipher what year it comes. And what do these numbers say?
Please read the last paragraph of this post: https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/in...?topic=36283.0
It describes how to identify the year a K47 or K67 was made. The other letters/numbers identify internal production data (capsule series, person who assembled/tested the capsule).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Gear Nut
let's see if I can decipher this mystery?

Thank you.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
Gear Nut
 
lucasanything's Avatar
Klaus, can you tell us about your and Oliver’s efforts to recreate the (Berlin) M7 capsule? I know that since Oliver’s passing the project is no longer active. But I’d like to understand what it would have involved.

If I become a millionaire one day and wanted to see this project through, could any amount of funds make this happen?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Oliver died before we got out of the prototype stage recreating an M7 worthy of the name. For the last three years I have been refining an M7-type with another manufacturer. We are still not quite where I could say without reservations that it's an equal to Neumann's fabulous design.

Your second question is really good. I don't think it's a matter of throwing a lot of money around and assuming that some of it will eventually hit the bull's eye. Capsule design requires relatively little financial investment, but endless tenacity and stubbornness sticking with a maddeningly non-linear process of refinement.

Ultimately, I think the art of making a capsule that sounds really good depends on 1. the subjective interpretation of what is "good", and 2. the skills to translate that interpretation into design changes and improvements, especially when it's "not good enough yet".
The curse of those who tried reviving the magic of the M7 is that they stopped with "good enough".

As I am not known to fit into that category, if my current partnership can last, and he won't give up and decide it's now "good enough", I could see results in a couple of years that meet my standards and can measure up to Neumann's excellence.

Last edited by Klaus; 3 weeks ago at 10:47 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
Gear Nut
M7 Neumann Origin 1955 (Siegfried Thiersch recap) vs Neumann k49 (14,61) capsule.

rec:NeumennU47Vf14mBv08 no preamp into rme UFX

1 sample with 2 capsules.
Attached Thumbnails
Telefunken M7 vs  Neumann K47-8f686e44-5b7f-4278-882f-43b5c96f6d09.jpg  
Attached Files

m7vsk49capsule.wav (2.09 MB, 273 views)


Last edited by QueenSisi; 3 weeks ago at 08:04 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

What does "14,61" mean?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Gear Nut
attachement added
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump