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Tascam DA-3000 or Lake People F446?
Old 7th July 2017
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Tascam DA-3000 or Lake People F446?

Hello,

which unit would you take and why?
What are the differences?
Does someone have looptests?

Thanks.
Old 7th July 2017
  #2
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Adebar's Avatar
I don´t get your question.

The F446 is a AD-DA converter.
The DA-3000 is a digital recorder with analog and digital I/Os.

It´s like comparing apples with oranges.

Or do you mean the quality of the converters?
Old 11th July 2017
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
Or do you mean the quality of the converters?
I thought it would be possible to hook up the DA-3000 to
a computer through AES and use it like an AD/DA converter.
So, yes how does the conversion compare?
Old 11th July 2017
  #4
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Adebar's Avatar
Yes you can use the DA-3000 as ADDA converter via AES/EBU.

I didn´t comare the 2 side by side. The Lake People units always have a good relation in price and performance. But the DA3000 has a good reputation either.

Sorry that doesn´t really help here.
What interface do you use?
Old 11th July 2017
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
What interface do you use?
I would use a Lynx L22 for it. Maybe if more channeltracks or summing
would be needed, one of the usual suspects. So RME, Lynx, Marian.
Old 11th July 2017
  #6
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Adebar's Avatar
If you don´t need the recoring cababilites of the DA-3000 why not just use an interface with adequate ADDA converter instead of using a AES PCIe card plus external converters?
Old 12th July 2017
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
If you don´t need the recording cababilites of the DA-3000 why not just use
an interface with adequate ADDA converter instead of using a AES PCIe card plus external converters?
You mean an USB interface or the like? I have the feeling that this "big bundle" stuff with micpre/DI/HP/converters/plus maybe software are somewhere around mediocre. Or from Prism Sound Lyra up are to consider highend. People telling Lyra is a bit sounded in a nice way. While I believe not heard, Lynx Hilo is neon-HD.

My thoughts about german converters is that RME, the more expensive ones, are a really good highend standard and Lake People converters are more like the esoteric germans. Hence the LP logo. A lot of people recording to tape but who cuts vinyl Its just my interpretation about logos without ever hearing them.

DA-3000 some say its very analogish and maybe indistinguishable, in a kind of lesser quality (?), from higher end stuff. Maybe its just for one catch and so true. Didn´t hear it either.

I made one looptest by ear some years ago. I tested Mytek 8x192, Lynx L22 and Echo Audiofire 4. A small Kurzweil PC3K6 pattern. 10 loops DA/AD every converter had to run. Shure a Kurzweil is a nice synth but a.) samples recorded with unknown converters b.) digital mashine c.) on the other has nice DA which gives it a bit of a "nonsample" sound against its Spdif out.

Mytek 8x192 was keeping a very linear sound and deep (? no subwoofer in the test/ 2-way 1" 5,5") at least linear bass and I would believe with sub it would go deep. From an other test heard I had bit of a feeling that it has a dry sound. Not in a bad way more like a console which has no drive in quieter parts and when it started to get loud had an extra warmth/glue. Maybe for this reason its more real sounding. I would say maybe more studio and less hifi. Didn´t hear higher end converters which I believe could have a tint of microdynamics as an extra. This often could be somewhere between a "hifi" trick and a truth. I (somehow?) liked the "dryness" for showing "fader position" in the console. (Theoretically?) it could be the other way and its "drying" sound by itself - I dont believe this way. Never worked with a console so. I didn´t hear the unnatural(?) highend others heard here in the forum. Maybe they listened to direct acoustical recordings. (Maybe maybe maybe and maybe maybe from other tests heard here in the forum, not my tests, bit of distortion against Forssell/Crane Song/Prism/... converters. Listened more often, only heard it once, hm??? They all used Mytek DA for all DA/AD one loop stuff so the AD would need to be the weak part which I dont believe because AD (or clock?) is easier to make correct. So why did I write this ? truth/bollocks?) Lets say its the Klein & Hummel O300 of converters (?)

Lynx L22 lost a bit of warmth, not in a bad way. Bit more mid upfront through lack of bass and low mids but not in a crystal clear like way. Softend up a bit in a, for me, "vintage" way. Not vintage like glue and bubble. Transients lost snap but still kept smooth - friendly washed out. Big studios would maybe consider it "cutting place". Small studios can make a happy living with these.

Echo Audio had a feeling like it was in a wooden chamber. So warmth a bit upfront and like if too small constructed "dampers"(do ADs need "dampers" to cancel the power behind the conversion?) reflected low mids back into the cable and "smeared" it like a bit of tube microphony. Really nice converters for the money. And "smeared" means in a very nice professional way. A bit like a Drawmer 1968 MKII in Clipalator I would say. Smooth. Bomber project converters. Sad that the company is not producing/selling converters anymore. While RME Fireface was often a bit "crystal steril clear" sounding this made a halfpriced alternative smooth mellow musical converter.

The more questionable thing for me was why the Mytek didn't loose perceived loudness, it kept at "0" db. Lynx L22 lost "0.5" db and Echo lost "1.0" db even while the meters showed the same peaks/loudness (readjusted levels in the 10 loops which is an other story of their constancy, no real problems). Maybe subsonic/supersonic noise - filterproblems. Small unheard "frequencyholes"? Small dynamic misinterpretation? Or just plain audiopohile physics technique? Because of this I think some super expensive converters even could give extra perceived loudness through the finest tint of audiotricks.

On the other, 0.05 respectively 0.1 lost loudness perception for one loop is "ok" for the given prices. Keep the chain/rerecordings short and it shouldn´t be to problematic. I didn´t do much with the recordings. Maybe a mastering engineer would have the cure later.

So I "liebäugel" (germ. fancy/ogle) a bit with one of these because I believe, didn´t hear them, they are the next step up. Maybe loopbacks could even, which is technically somehow not aloud for converters because of soundchanging behaviour , nearly sound a bit or they stay very linear and have true microdynamics. I would not use them for "hey lets loop my personal master 10 times with no chain in between to make it rock" or theoretically Need to check.

Last edited by Schizzo; 12th July 2017 at 04:41 PM..
Old 12th July 2017
  #8
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Adebar's Avatar
What would your new ADDA converter be used for?
Old 12th July 2017
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

I would plan to record analog synths, API 500 racks/Lisson Grove AR-1 and 1/4" or 1/2" tape.
But its not a given in the moment have to plan it through.

Last edited by Schizzo; 12th July 2017 at 01:22 PM..
Old 12th July 2017
  #10
Deleted b738100
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schizzo View Post
I would plan to record analog synths, API 500 racks/Lisson Grove AR-1 and 1/4" or 1/2" tape.
But its not a given in the moment have to plan it through.
I own a DA-3000, owned several LP converters over the years and tested the F446 for a few days, some time ago.

I really like the DA-3000 converters and for the price, I don´t think you can go wrong with it + you have the option to use the unit as a stand-alone recorder.

I often use it for my recording/mixing chain and it always delivers very nice results.

The F446 is a great converter but the newer separate LP/Violectric AD and DA units use updated converter chips, I guess ...

Never do looptests, sorry
Old 12th July 2017
  #11
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Some added insights

I have no experience with the Tascam. I use Mytek 8x192 for DA only and Lake People ADC F444 for AD. (Sometimes I use Mytek Stereo192 ADC as AD, when I want a little more edge, or bite.) The Lake People AD is better than LP's DA. In that sense their Violectric DAC's are a serious step up. Lake People F444 ADC is the bomb in conjunction with Grimm CC2 clock. Very natural, analog sounding. Wonderful as a master converter, or for very high quality tracking. FWIW.
Old 13th July 2017
  #12
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schizzo View Post
I would plan to record analog synths, API 500 racks/Lisson Grove AR-1 and 1/4" or 1/2" tape.
But its not a given in the moment have to plan it through.
If you don´t need the recording feature of the DA3000 I would go just for a ADDA converter either with build in interface (USB, TB, Dante) or a AES PCIe card.

You could even take a USB-AES interface like the Yellow PUClite pluus a good stand alone ADDA converter with AES connection of you choice in case you work with laptop and there is no PCI card slot.
Old 13th July 2017
  #13
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If you want neutral the DA-3000 is it.

I bought a DA-3000 for location recording to use with a high quality mic pre. However I did some critical testing because I wanted a completely neutral recorder without character or personality and I'm 100% satisfied with the results, this recorder is not only good for the money, it's just great regardless of price, price qualification is not necessary. I found it's best performance is at 24/96 using a SD card and used with Tascam's 16db 'default' level setting. Other settings change the sound, but not for the better. The CF card, for some reason, has a softer sound. Also did some loop around tests playing HI-RES 24/96 live recordings and the DA-3000 is inaudible from the original recording. Even tried different power cords and the original was the best. The chassis is slightly microphonic so put it on a appropriate firm surface. All tests were done using Stax Lambda Pro headphones and the Stax SRM1/MK2 class A amp. Never heard a Lake People piece so no comment there.
Old 15th July 2017
  #14
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd270 View Post
All tests were done using Stax Lambda Pro headphones and the Stax SRM1/MK2 class A amp. Never heard a Lake People piece so no comment there.
Even with the best headphones it is hard for me to judge how good is the depth of field and the whole stereo field.

Did you also hear via good monitors for comparison of the converters?
Old 16th July 2017
  #15
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Adebar, the loopback tests were only done using the Stax phones. You should really hear it yourself, it's the only way to hear subtleties. When I hear my recordings on my friends mastering system, KH410 with Avocet IIA the depth is outstanding. He records using Merging Horus and my recordings have a level of quality when played on his system that is comparable.
Old 16th July 2017
  #16
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd270 View Post
He records using Merging Horus and my recordings have a level of quality when played on his system that is comparable.
I have no doubt about that
These converters are in the same league.
Old 20th October 2018
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schizzo View Post
A bit like a Drawmer 1968 MKII in Clipalator I would say.
"Drawmer 1968 MKII in Clipalator" means what I heard in Zen Pros Clipalator.
It has a bit of tube microphony/warmth. Had it myself and Clipalator showed me maybe why I liked it. VERY nice! Still I am not a huge fan of Clipalator, sorry. Maybe the 1968 is the only comp there which shows a difference to others(?) or at least bit more obvious. If it would give 1-2 db of extra loudness it could be my dream compressor, maybe? It is compy, compressed in a good way, and natural, natural in the way I believe that it is quite unobstrusive. Just if you want more loudness than it fails. I hope they make a "better" tube-make-up version one day. On the other, maybe, with a Limiter and a Clipper (and/or a Tapemachine) you can achieve everything. Just to more or less complete what I wrote before. Which is not about AD/DA
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