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Neve 1272 - modded, take a look? Audio Interfaces
Old 28th June 2017
  #1
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Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?

Hi all. Trying to get some insight into a pair of 1272's I recently bought with a bunch of other gear. They were racked in a nice 2 module housing which added phantom power, phase, and what I assume is post gain to each side (chassis and power supply are being serviced, so I haven't had a chance to double check the gain control functions on it). It has mic and line inputs on the back for each (and of course the outputs for each).

The modules themselves I assume were originally straight console pulls, as in addition to the 1272 logo, they have Echo 2 and Echo 3 stamped on them (factory, it appears).

Where it gets interesting is that a switchable gain selector was added (again, haven't been able to confirm, but that's the general mod I think that's done to make them "mic gain friendly").

Here are a bunch of pictures of one module (other is the same). Anybody with insight on specific age range, what the added mod "probably" is, and what-not, feel free to chime in!

I don't think I'll have the chassis back for a couple of weeks to really run them through the paces and double check the mod's function or the gain control on the chassis, but wanting to try to get as much info as I can before then.

Thanks for any help!!
Old 28th June 2017
  #2
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t8mc1dk2q...-1aqberja?dl=0

Dropbox folder with several pics. Thanks for the help so far, everyone!

Last edited by suitedstudio; 28th June 2017 at 09:15 PM..
Old 28th June 2017
  #3
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There was a thread some time back where Geoff Tanner went into some detail about the 1272:

Neve 1073 vs 1272?

Ideally, IMO, you want the mod to bring them in line with the spec of a 1290, which is the mic pre version w/o eq controls. There's mention in that thread of a JML conversion (a kit I think) to achieve that. Probably worth a search - you might be able to compare what's been done with the conversion to see what your options are...
Old 28th June 2017
  #4
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
...mention in that thread of a JML conversion...
FWIW, it looks like the details of the gain switching upgrade/mod mentioned above are still online at:

JLM 1272 Switch Kit


Last edited by DarkSky Media; 28th June 2017 at 05:58 PM..
Old 28th June 2017
  #5
I did the JLM mod to a pair of 1272s that I have and I highly recommend it!
Old 28th June 2017
  #6
Here for the gear
 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t8mc1dk2q...-1aqberja?dl=0

Hopefully this link will work. Several pics in the folder...

Thanks for all the info so far!!
Old 2nd July 2017
  #7
API
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Your modules are fairly old, ca 1970-71 and have been quite modded.
There is an addtional Line in transformer and a gainswitch (as noted), plus a gaintrim added to the module.
I would assume that the gainswitch have steps for gain up to ca 50-60 db gain, and there should be at least on position on the switch which is for the Line in.

If you are going to use them i would say that you should service the modules as well and change the electrolytic capacitors.
But if you are going to sell them to me you can leave them as-is
Old 3rd July 2017
  #8
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LockStock's Avatar
Neat. I just bought this set from you, and was looking for information - glad I used the search function.

I'm attaching the pics here for posterity if Dropbox ever goes down.

They are serial numbers 3745 and 3750 - not sure how to date these by serial, but any help appreciated. I imagine because there is no "issue' identifier, these are first issue. And I'm not sure what the yellow 157 and 157 stickers are - maybe just identifiers for placement in the console?

Thank you API for your insight. I take it stuffing the Marinair T1442 in there is an atypical mod. I don't see it on most modded 1272s. I am aware of Geoff T's comments on these sorts of mods, and am not sure if this mod was done the "right" way or not to make it more like a 1290 with a line input transformer.

Now I've got to figure out what to do with them...
Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-1166a-t1444-t1442.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-overview-1.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-overview-2.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-serial-number-3745.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-serial-number-3750.jpg  

Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-t1442-t1444.jpg  

Last edited by LockStock; 3rd July 2017 at 02:58 PM..
Old 3rd July 2017
  #9
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Hey! I'm having the other pair really tweaked out to get them top-knotch, and I'll let you know if the tech has any more info (and from the previous owner as soon as I hear back from him as well).
Really excited to start using these myself. They sound really nice as they are, justr not sure where they are as far as official spec, per se. Going to do a lot of synth tracking through them. My main engineer is stoked for kick/snare and guitar tracking.
Old 17th July 2017
  #10
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LockStock's Avatar
Thanks! Did the tech have any more info? Anything at all that you could share would be welcome.
Old 17th July 2017
  #11
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ruffrecords's Avatar
The 1272 was most commonly used as a bus amplifier when I was at Neve in the 70s (with Geoff). Judging by the silk screening on the ones you have that is exactly what they were used for. A Neve bus amplifier is little more than a low gain mic pre - the sort of thing you us today as gain make up for a passive summer because that's exactly how summing was done at Neve in those days. It uses a single BA283 board because it rarely needs as much as 40dB of gain. The gain was set by a trimmer pot (usually front panel mounted, and a level control would be placed between the two stages of the BA283 (labelled echo send on your examples). Looks like they have moved the level pot to the trim pot position and replaced the the level pot with a gain selector switch.

If you only need up to 40dB of gain then it will be fine but if you need up to 60dB gain then you really need the extra gain stage present in the 1290. Think of a modded 1272 as a Neve V72 with more gain steps and you won't go far wrong.

Cheers

Ian
Old 17th July 2017
  #12
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PAST's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LockStock View Post
Neat. I just bought this set from you, and was looking for information - glad I used the search function.

I'm attaching the pics here for posterity if Dropbox ever goes down.

They are serial numbers 3745 and 3750 - not sure how to date these by serial, but any help appreciated. I imagine because there is no "issue' identifier, these are first issue. And I'm not sure what the yellow 157 and 157 stickers are - maybe just identifiers for placement in the console?

Thank you API for your insight. I take it stuffing the Marinair T1442 in there is an atypical mod. I don't see it on most modded 1272s. I am aware of Geoff T's comments on these sorts of mods, and am not sure if this mod was done the "right" way or not to make it more like a 1290 with a line input transformer.

Now I've got to figure out what to do with them...
Interesting, thanks for posting this

I have many of these genuine unmodified Vintage Neve 1272 Modules dating from the 1970's through to later dates

I use them in a variety of ways

They were, as stated, originally mainly used as head amplifiers for voltage mix bus bars but use identical circuitry and components to the same era Neve input modules

These modules were the basic building blocks that created the much sought after Neve characteristic sound from around the 1970's era that many now strive to duplicate using new components and transformers today

Some of these modules are from very famous early Neve recording studio consoles

The thing is that they all have the Original Quality Vintage Copper Wound Mic Input Transformer and components

As recently discussed on the the Transformer sounds thread it is not possible to entirely duplicate the core or the copper or the metallurgy of these original components

Hence the 'Antique Vintage' value

The most important point is that they have those Original Mic Input components

These original Neve modules can be used as Mix Bus Amplifiers to create an analogue vintage multi-channel voltage mixer (main original use) or they can be modified and converted into their respective genre of Fixed Sensitivity Adjustable Gain Remote Mic Amp, Medium Gain Variable Sensitivity Mic Amp, Remote Controlled Mic Amp, High Gain 1290, 1064, 1073, 1076, 1078, 31102, 32074L type Mic Input Amplifier, Line Amp and much more

Phantom Powering, Impedance Shift (Matching), Phase Shift, Filters, Equaliser circuits and Limiter/Compressor circuits can also be added to these rugged, solid state units

The original modules include full Neve metalwork and back connector, original amplifier card with edge connector, genuine original vintage copper wound mic level input transformer, balanced output transformer, unbalanced insertion point, external gain boosting for input and output amplifiers and all wiring and facilities necessary to re-create genuine vintage Neve technology today

At below half the price of a Mic Amp clone it is possible with this genuine article to re-create many Vintage Neve units for a reasonable cost

It is rather strange that your pictured units appear to have TWO input transformers each?

This is not standard

What are the numbers on the transformers

Maybe one has been added as a line input modification for a previous usage?

Yes, the white stickers are to ensure that when the modules were removed from the console for shipping that they were replaced in the same slots

Levels were set at the Neve Electronic Laboratories factory and a test report produced so it was essential that modules were not juggled or the bus and other levels would then be wrong and the measurements invalidated

Yes, those yellow stickers that you mention WERE originally white stickers

That is nicotine staining

I would guess that these modules were from a console that was housed in a heavily smoke filled control room!

The serial numbers that you mention are rather strange

I would expect a five figure number followed by /K but these modules might have come from an old or an unusual source

Let me know?

When I have a moment I will post some images of genuine unmodified Neve 1272's as there are various versions, vintages and different transformers etc. that should be documented here

PAST
Professional Audio System Technology

Last edited by PAST; 17th July 2017 at 01:52 PM.. Reason: Add Sig, spelling, complete sentence
Old 17th July 2017
  #13
Gear Nut
 
LockStock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAST View Post

It is rather strange that your pictured units appear to have TWO input transformers each?

This is not standard

What are the numbers on the transformers

Maybe one has been added as a line input modification for a previous usage?
Thank you- yes, these were modded -the seller said they came to him in power supplies with phantom power and had been modified both for higher gain mic usage as well as for a line input. The transformers in each are T1444, T1442, and LO1166/A.

Also, these have the B183 cards, not the 283.
Old 17th July 2017
  #14
Gear Nut
 
PAST's Avatar
 

Looking at the images it is obvious that these modules have been heavily modified by non Neve technicians

It would appear that you do have genuine vintage Neve components but the modifications are without doubt questionable

My first thought would be to ask you to check the labels on the rear of the module to see the Type No

What does it say on the front panel?

Does this tie up?

If you have 1272 modules then you should have fully fitted BA283 cards or BA183 which are almost the same circuit boards but of a different vintage

Either is cool

It would appear from the images that you have the fully fitted AV version

The 1271 would only have part fitted boards with one amplifier stage

What is written on the back of these cards in black ink?

What do you intend to do with these modules?

It would seem that you have the basic elements present plus a couple of extra input transformers to make something really fantastic

However, you first need to throw away the non genuine additional modifications and think this out properly

There is probably a simple reason why these modules were abandoned and sold and it will be well worth sorting them out

I have posted some information on genuine vintage Neve modules on GS today in order to help you guys to get back on the right track

Best

PAST
Professional Audio System Technology
Old 19th July 2017
  #15
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LockStock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAST View Post
What is written on the back of these cards in black ink?

What do you intend to do with these modules?
Per the pics above, just says B183, nothing in black ink.

Not sure what I will do. I don't have a power supply for them, so I haven't been able to try them. Contacted several about a power supply, no dice. Chandler and BAE both said they would not use these transformers and parts in a newer LTD-1 or 10xx, at least not at this time.

Since the gain switch is not done correctly, and these have already been modded, I'm tempted to use what parts I can in a proper Neve 10xx clone of some sort.
Old 19th July 2017
  #16
Gear Nut
 
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As far as I can see from this distance

Big = Close

Small = Far Away

You have a really great pair of original Neve modules

The original transformers, pcb's and components are in perfect shape with no 'drunken butcher' bad unsoldering or soldering to the pcb's at least

Luckily the bad amateur wiring modifications can be carefully removed with no serious damage

You have a fantastic opportunity to easily return these modules to original condition

You can then use them in a myriad of ways to make whatever you want, as I have detailed in my Neve Vintage Equipment post

A power supply is not a problem but it must be a good low noise power supply

So, just let me know what you want to make from these modules?

You DO NOT have a clone or want to make a clone by stripping parts from these original modules

You have the real thing

There are an infinite number of clones

That is why they clone clones, if you see what I mean?

Clones are the equivalent of a photocopy of a Rembrandt etching

The same thang but NOT the original

Nothing wrong with clones but they don't cut the biscuit in 'real' life

However, there are not many originals left that can be used properly to make new equipment

Think....heart surgery, not butchery!

New life....not a bloody mess!

PAST
Professional Audio System Technology
Old 18th September 2017
  #17
API
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I was lucky enough to buy on pair of these 1272´s and have now rebuilt them.
I removed the gainswitch the was previously put in and added a JLM 1290 module so that the gainswitching will be more correct above 50db of gain.
Now they have 20-70db of gain in ten steps, with the line in via the 31267 transformer on the lowest step on the gainswitch.

There was quite some work with them, especially mechanically.
Someone had drilled out the thread for the screws attaching the frontpanel, so i had to drill the hank rivets out and added bolts inside them.
There was also some other funky stuff that needed attending.

But looks, works and sounds great now!
Next will be to build an original style rack for them.
Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_4.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_5.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_3.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_2.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_1.jpg  

Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-neve1272_6.jpg  
Old 19th September 2017
  #18
Gear Nut
 
LockStock's Avatar
That is awesome API - so glad these ended up in your very capable hands!
Old 19th September 2017
  #19
Gear Nut
 
PAST's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by API View Post
I was lucky enough to buy on pair of these 1272´s and have now rebuilt them.
I removed the gainswitch the was previously put in and added a JLM 1290 module so that the gainswitching will be more correct above 50db of gain.
Now they have 20-70db of gain in ten steps, with the line in via the 31267 transformer on the lowest step on the gainswitch.

There was quite some work with them, especially mechanically.
Someone had drilled out the thread for the screws attaching the frontpanel, so i had to drill the hank rivets out and added bolts inside them.
There was also some other funky stuff that needed attending.

But looks, works and sounds great now!
Next will be to build an original style rack for them.
Hi Dennis

Looking great!

Good Job well done

This is exactly what I was recommending above

Did you get the front panels re- painted and silk screened?

Do you have test results?

I would be interested to know what performance numbers they achieved?

Input Headroom (Maximum output)
Output Noise
Line level input noise
Mic EIN
Distortion

Here, as a rough guide and comparison (PAST Equaliser and Mic Amplifier) is what I would specify and how I would measure these parameters

Steve Butterworth

PAST
Professional Audio System Technology
Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-2017-09-19-11.20.30-1.jpg  
Old 4th May 2018
  #20
API
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1272’s racked up

I just wanted to show you guys the rack i built for these two modules.
The idea was to have a similar look to the vintage 80-series desks.
Modules are also mounted on rails with mating connectors in the back like in the old desks and slides out.
Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-a400d4f5-ef7a-4e85-bddc-fd8656f929ca.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-5ab8ab52-2d35-454f-aacf-8b776531b4d9.jpg   Neve 1272 - modded, take a look?-c1b75201-f2b8-470b-ab7e-1636a37ddcb4.jpg  
Old 4th May 2018
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by API View Post
I just wanted to show you guys the rack i built for these two modules.
The idea was to have a similar look to the vintage 80-series desks.
Modules are also mounted on rails with mating connectors in the back like in the old desks and slides out.
Looks like a great job you've done there!
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