The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What/Who will supersede ProTools/Digidesign?
Old 24th March 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

What/Who will supersede ProTools/Digidesign?

Take a look back at the last 40 years, nobody retained the crown forever:

From the Ampex 2-4-8 track machines of the early days, the world shifted to the kingdom of Studer and Otari with 16-24 track analog. Then came Sony and Mitsubishi with 24-32-48 digital tape. DASH ruled for a decade or more, although analog machines were still widely used (and sonically preferred, even when DASH reached 24 bits).

A new revolution started after that with the early Macs and a stereo sound editor: SoundTools (later ProTools). But at the time, personal computers couldn't reliably handle that many tracks so for the next few years different closed dedicated digital systems lived along together and even made some dent into Sony's DASH territory: Fairlight, AMS, Otari/RADAR... etc.

24 track analog continued to be popular, if only for its cheaper cost (funnily enough!), proved reliability, standardized media and compatibility, and... 'better sound' (to some engineers at least).

But then personal computers finally evolved so that with help of additional DSPs, they could manage 24 tracks in professional enviroments. Digidesign's era started.

--END OF FLASHBACK


Now ProTools is not just a tape machine anymore, but a 'tape' and a mixing solution all in one. It is not alone though, as many other similar solutions exist, some of them being considerably cheaper and equally professional, and need no propietary DSPs at all.
Now if we gaze toward the reasons that made the recording industry left one already standardized technology in favor of a newer one, we'll see:

-'More is Better' ( tracks )
-Easyness ( analog tape >> digital tape >> HDs )
-Price ( tape machines and tape >> computers and HDs )

What still remains to be proved is whether SOUND QUALITY played a role in all that. Did 2" 24 track machines sound better than 2" 16 track? Was DASH (16 and 24 bit) better sounding than 2" machines? Did ProTools (Nubus, Mix, HD) sound better than all of the above?


So, considering those four leading points (Price, Easyness, Sound Quality and 'More is Better') do you think Digidesign will be king of the mambo forever?
Can a cheaper, easier, more featured and (for a change) better sounding product shift tides again?

PS: I omitted names like Tascam, Fostex, AKAI, ADAT or Synclavier as they, regardless of their success, never were mainstream devices in (First Class) pro studios.
Old 24th March 2007
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
2" tape. It will be like tube amps...It'll come back with a vengence.




















Or not...
Old 24th March 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
So, considering those four leading points (Price, Easyness, Sound Quality and 'More is Better') do you think Digidesign will be king of the mambo forever?
Can a cheaper, easier, more featured and (for a change) better sounding product shift tides again?
We are now in the stage where we are gradually moving away from dedicated DSP Hardware systems such as HD to Native computer processing. Whether Digidesign remains king depends on how they adapt to this new reality.
Old 24th March 2007
  #4
future music will be composed on a cell phone... sort of an advanced ring tone composer.

american idol will buy out all music labels and muscle out independent music. they will host a cell phone ring tone server that will compare all peoples entries. those that are processed by the master database as the top contenders will be given the opportunity to bring their cell phones for a televised shootout of the final competition. (cell phones will have mics and wireless PA uplinks by then)

as a backlash to american idol, brazil and mexico will form a "central american idol" and "south american idol". iraq and afghanistan, having successfully waited out the american's political patience - will have formed independent governments following their respective civil wars and will join forces in the creation of a "down with america idol"

norway and japan will be the main joint superpower with the sony-erriccson partnership holding sway over europe and africa, and california (having separated from the United States) will be the other major player with the iPhone iDol edition. red state U.S. will be paralyzed with an almost slave-like dependency on chinese cell phone idol video download services while blue east coast states will form a partnership with california but politically ineffectual as NYC and other east cost cities reverse the no-smoking ban in restaurants an bars and forever fall out of graces with the seat of power in cupertino, the capital of the country of iCal iForn iA.
Old 24th March 2007
  #5
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

A friend of mine pointed out that he couldn't remember anybody ever buying a recorder that didn't have more tracks than their previous recorder. I had to agree that there was a pattern there.

What I believe will supersede ProTools/Digidesign will be a much more modular approach. Audio files will be a universal file format and there will be dedicated applications outperforming the various functions of today's "Swiss Army Knife" DAW applications.

Pro Tools introduced plug-in signal processing. Every other function can also be a plug-in.
Old 24th March 2007
  #6
Gear Nut
 
1954U1's Avatar
 

You get a very good point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
Now if we gaze toward the reasons that made the recording industry left one already standardized technology in favor of a newer one, we'll see:

-'More is Better' ( tracks )
-Easyness ( analog tape >> digital tape >> HDs )
-Price ( tape machines and tape >> computers and HDs )

What still remains to be proved is whether SOUND QUALITY played a role in all that.

The very thing of these 4 that is missing now, is, I think,
SOUND QUALITY.

So, the next thing will be, IMO, a system with more attention to that.

A computer based system with less tracks, more bit depth, and more power in convolution models?
A dual system, analog in path signal but still, and better, computer-controlled (MIDI or another, faster, protocol)
in some instruments playing and data storing?
Old 24th March 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
FossilTooth's Avatar
 

Whatever it is, when PT takes a backseat, all the digi bashing will stop, and the "old school" engineers of the future will complain about the "state of pro audio today" and go on an on about how it was "so much better when we were all using Pro Tools".
Old 24th March 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

There will be NO systems at all.

tsvisser hit the nail right on the head. It'll start first with auto mixing artist's tracks at iTunes download (the mix will better then perfect). You'll have a few choices for sound/mix style before you hit "Download Now". Cellphones will have <b>PERFECT</b> mic modeling and musicians will just sit a few of them around to record. The tracks will auto upload to AppleTube™.

In just a few short years after that ends, all the cellphone companies, Mr. Google, DirectTV (yes they do indeed collect ALL your channel surfing data) and AppleTube™ will concatenate <b>ALL</b> the data and create absolutely <b>PERFECT</b> sounding music automatically (voices too).

No one will have to DO anything. Mexico and China, will of course, do all of this even cheaper than free.

Our great grandchildren will bitch because songs take a whopping 11 seconds <b>FOR ALL OF IT</b> to be created (which will be faaaaaar too long for them to pay attention). A.D.D. will seem like a total blessing compared to what they'll be doing then.

The government will bitch too. THEY'LL want to tax us so <b>THEY</b> can create the....um...."music". By the time complete legislation is passed it'll <b>ALL</b> be just an algorithm and done by no one. No one will have to do anything. The government will then be bummed.

YOUR music listening will be decided for you based on your choices in life (which will all be in the central database) and <b>YOU WILL LIKE IT!</b> No, excuse me, you will <b>LOVE IT!</B>

Mexico and China will <b>STILL</b> be able to do it all even cheaper than before. Yes, even cheaper than cheaper than free.

I have seen the future and I am completely underwhelmed. {sigh}
Old 24th March 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab View Post
.....(snip)... Cellphones will have <b>PERFECT</b> mic modeling and musicians will just sit a few of them around to record. ......(snip)....
um.... you're kidding, right?

Old 24th March 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1954U1 View Post
You get a very good point:




The very thing of these 4 that is missing now, is, I think,
SOUND QUALITY.

So, the next thing will be, IMO, a system with more attention to that.

A computer based system with less tracks, more bit depth, and more power in convolution models?
A dual system, analog in path signal but still, and better, computer-controlled (MIDI or another, faster, protocol)
in some instruments playing and data storing?

"Less tracks" will never happen...

TH
Old 24th March 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Further convergence with video.
Old 24th March 2007
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Hardware I/O will eventually be so cheap and performance-ubiquitous that Digi will be forced to not be proprietary hardware-wise.

At which point, another software company that is able to incorporate all of PT's feature set, combined with being able to turn around new design features faster than Digi - will emerge with the product at a cheaper price.

Said company will have integrated many more features than Digi is capable of doing. Digi will then drop their price, but it will be too late.
Old 24th March 2007
  #13
What I want is a universal harddrive that's located on a network and is so fast (120 ch+) that I can acces to it anywhere in the world......wireless of course..... heh
Imaging having Protools in your laptop, no additional hardware, being as fast as a HD4 Accel. Then you could travel the world to record and mix.
Old 24th March 2007
  #14
One thing's for sure. A bad room will still sound like a bad room. At least until the laws of physics can be better manipulated.
Old 24th March 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Since we're on the the subject of Digidesign, I got a question.

Would it be stupid to upgrade to HD4Accel/PCIx at the present moment? I am using the old PCI version of PT HD and am thinking of upping my dsp power and also computer as well (which means no PCI).

I'm wondering if Digidesign will release a newer version of PT HD in the next 6 months or so.......

What you think?
Old 24th March 2007
  #16
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

I can Only hope that the Industry rewinds and goes backwards, as long as i can use a analog board and my techs are around thats what i will do, by the time the analog boards are totally gone i will be thru with recording and ready for a retirement home anyways, so all in all im good. If my machines will hold up 20 more years im good.

Its hard enough keeping a G4 and a simple Mbox going must less anything else. Its a constant nag with Mbox etc, i have been using Akai DR series recorders for over 12 years and not have ONE isiue. I HATE COMPUTERS !!!!!
BTW i only use Mbox for backup...
Old 24th March 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkamacher View Post
Hardware I/O will eventually be so cheap and performance-ubiquitous that Digi will be forced to not be proprietary hardware-wise.

At which point, another software company that is able to incorporate all of PT's feature set, combined with being able to turn around new design features faster than Digi - will emerge with the product at a cheaper price.

Said company will have integrated many more features than Digi is capable of doing. Digi will then drop their price, but it will be too late.
Digi turns out upgrades and bug fixes faster than anyone...been there and done that with MOTU, Logic, and Nuendo. No comparison to the testing, customer service updates, or new features. They obviously can't add every feature people want every two weeks, but hang around with the other programs for awhile and there's no comparison.

TH
Old 24th March 2007
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
Since we're on the the subject of Digidesign, I got a question.

Would it be stupid to upgrade to HD4Accel/PCIx at the present moment? I am using the old PCI version of PT HD and am thinking of upping my dsp power and also computer as well (which means no PCI).

I'm wondering if Digidesign will release a newer version of PT HD in the next 6 months or so.......

What you think?
Well, considering we just ordered the upgrades (1 x HD3 PCI to HD3 Accel PCI Express AND 1 x HD2 PCI to HD2 Accel PCI Express), I'm POSITIVE they will come out with something new very soon to render our upgrade nearly obsolete.
Old 24th March 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
Would it be stupid to upgrade to HD4Accel/PCIx at the present moment? I am using the old PCI version of PT HD and am thinking of upping my dsp power and also computer as well (which means no PCI).
You could just build a "Quad" PC and put your PCI HD Core card in there and have plugin power equal to HD|5. The system won't cost you more than $1300 or so. Just a matter of how much I/O you need...Just a thought...
Old 24th March 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 

Just another opinion, but I think the trend of having a ga-zillion tracks that MUST be filled, one at a time, is slowly starting to reverse...people are (re)discovering the joys of tracking as many instruments as possible in one swoop, and finding that self-imposed track limitarions can force creativity on both sides of the glass.

It is the creative solving of problems that has (again, my personal opinion only) that has made today's music what it is...and many people (consumers and providers alike) are seriously fed up with the current state.

Still just my opinion...but all apps (I use Samplitude) are capable of producing stupidly top notch productions IF the engineer relies more on inbound technique and overall sonics and less on fixing it later...16 tracks is a whole lot easier to mix with than 160...

Again, just my opinion - but PT, Samplitude, Nuendo, all of them can render great results...what needs to change is the way the folks behind the controls use them...

I say leave well enough alone, and lets all stop trying to invent new ways to fix things, and work to get it right the first time....
Old 24th March 2007
  #21
Gear Guru
 

wow 20 posts in and no one has mentioned DSD. This same question a year or two ago... what ever happened to the future?

as long as the PCM DAW remains the paradigm it is probably Digi's game to lose.
Old 24th March 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 
SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
um.... you're kidding, right?

I wish I were. I wish I were.

Never underestimate the "advance" of technology and ability of the masses to be utterly convinced that it has indeed been "advanced".
Old 25th March 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndogg View Post
Well, considering we just ordered the upgrades (1 x HD3 PCI to HD3 Accel PCI Express AND 1 x HD2 PCI to HD2 Accel PCI Express), I'm POSITIVE they will come out with something new very soon to render our upgrade nearly obsolete.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking but I guess as long as it's powerful enough, it doesn't matter that much....


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
You could just build a "Quad" PC and put your PCI HD Core card in there and have plugin power equal to HD|5. The system won't cost you more than $1300 or so. Just a matter of how much I/O you need...Just a thought...
Yeah, it's another option. But I'm a PC idiot so my studio's a Mac-only. The PCs that I've come across, in other people's Nuendo setups, have been a bit problematic...
Old 25th March 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

What is going to hell is the Music Industry, NOT _teh_Music_. Music will always be around like it's been for centuries. In fact, I think now there're more bands and more youth interested in studying piano, violin, etc. than ever in history.

Anyway there're some good points here regarding what the ProTools successor might bring. Price, Video integration, and Portability (between platforms) seem to be key.
Considering that, Apple is probably the best positioned to succeed Digidesign/ProTools. They have merciless trumped AVID in the low-mid video post market, and are about to jump into the high-end. They also produce very powerful machines (soon with octo processors) neglecting the need for expensive external DSP, plus they own and design both the OS and the media apps.
Too bad Apple doesn't seem to care about Audio. This days is all HD Video, iPod and iPhone.


But what if they rewrite Logic from the ground up to make use of all fancy new multitouch-screen features?


Imagine this new platform: An Octo MacPro running Logic+++ with a hardware controller kind of a 16 fader ICON where the central section would be a HUGE 40-50" multi-touch screen.

ALL for €25k (add convertors to taste)
Old 25th March 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

something like this...
Attached Thumbnails
What/Who will supersede ProTools/Digidesign?-icon50screen.jpg  
Old 26th March 2007
  #26
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan View Post
...people are (re)discovering the joys of tracking as many instruments as possible in one swoop, and finding that self-imposed track limitarions can force creativity on both sides of the glass. ...
I'm tracking as many instruments as possible in one swoop however I'm using one track for each mike with mikes at absolutely every reasonable mike position to give me serious choices in the mix.

A zillion tracks for live, no-overdubbing recording is wonderful.
Old 26th March 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
 

3rd world war?
Old 26th March 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
 
AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
something like this...
What, Photoshop?

I can see it now "With Photoshop's new audio engine, you can now directly apply all your favorite visual filters straight to your audio! Go grainy for tape, or go black & white for that 'retro' feel! Polishing a turd has never been so easy!"

+1 for using an obscene amount of mics for options, Bob.
Old 26th March 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nandoanalog View Post
3rd world war?
In there, doing that.
Old 26th March 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab View Post
YOUR music listening will be decided for you based on your choices in life (which will all be in the central database) and <b>YOU WILL LIKE IT!</b> No, excuse me, you will <b>LOVE IT!</B>
This is the scariest thing I ever read on Gearsluts.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Dutchmuzik / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
chief / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
passionmax / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
Dutchmuzik / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
3
Dutchmuzik / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump