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Characteristics of PSI a21, Genelec 8351a and Barefoot mm45 Studio Monitors
Old 6th June 2017
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Characteristics of PSI a21, Genelec 8351a and Barefoot mm45

Hi!! Please, instead of saying which one is better (matter of taste), help me to choose my next hi-end monitor telling me the style and color of the monitors you tested below. If you didnt listened to all of them, its OK to write just what you listened.

Im looking for a nearfield very analytical detailed monitor that has very good low frequency for heavy bass electronic music creation. I need to really check whats going on from 35z to 150hz. And I like to master my own music and sometimes make some money mastering for other clients.

PSI a21
Barefoot mm45
Genelec 8351a
Geithain 944k
Trident HG3
PMC two two 8
Quested v2108
Kii Three

These are all monitors that I saw people saying about good characteristics that I need (good bottom end)....But as I live in Brazil and cant demo them, I need more details about their sound to take my decision. Which ones did you test it?? How each one sounds?? Whats the benefits from each one?

THANKS!!!
Old 6th June 2017
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

???
Old 6th June 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Slug1's Avatar
You'll get WAY faster information using the search tool. Or maybe even google.
Old 6th June 2017
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
You'll get WAY faster information using the search tool. Or maybe even google.
I've already did that....but they are all spread comparing maybe a25 with barefoot mm45 (and I need to check a21 against opinions of mm45).....or maybe I saw some threads about 8351 only alone with no comparisons......another topic only about the Kii There with no comparisons.... I mean, they are all disconected by people that tested only one model or the other model. And when I find some threads that have some comparisons that I want, they put too much their taste without a cold analysis of each one.

At Sound on Sound for exemple, they say only good things about these monitors but the review is always "clear image, great midrange, very puchy" .... "Very Punchy" compared to what????? "Big 3D soundstage" but compared to what?? Is this Big 3D soundstage different from the same "Big soundstage" from the other brand?? Whats the difference?

I never see threads with analysis of the type of the sound of each of the monitors I want in comparison with the other monitors I want....People here always says that PREFERS the genelec 8351 over a monitor that I already know that I dont want.....Or people say that PSI a21 are more "brutal" and shows more the mistakes of a mix in a non-musical way while Geithains shows the same mistakes in a more musical way....But whats the difference between this "non-musical" of the PSI a21 agains the "non-musical" of the Barefoot mm45??????? And whats the difference between the "musical" of the Geithains agains the "musical" of the Quested???

As I said, I cant demo these monitors so I need more information here (and I already research a lot inside here this forum...over 111 pages of the "hi-end monitor tests" big historical thread here and all over Google....

Thanks for any help
Old 7th June 2017
  #5
Everyone hears each monitor differently, especially due to our human ear all being different as well as our listening environment .. There is no way to form a blanket statement that represents a monitor or line.

That's why people say they prefer X monitor to Y monitor and to them one pair may be musical and the other clinical because that's all the have compared. Only you know what will sound right to you. Try to save up to be able get at least two pairs to test at the same time if you can. I know for most including myself getting say Barefoot and Amphion in the room together is not possible due to $$$$.

Also, most of these brands have a diversified monitor line and models will have different components. For example : tweeters -> do you prefer soft dome, radiator, aluminum, beryllium, folded ribbon ? Just right there you will have conflicting opinions as to which tweeter is musical, which is clinical, which is fast / slow etc..

Try to reach out to the distributor of the brands in your country to demo. If not then to truly know how you react to the monitor, you have to listen and work on it. If you cannot get the monitors you want to try due to lack of contacts, or maybe the dealer doesn't do demons/c the brands you want then you will have to special order. ( I'm in ATL and have this problem it's awful ) If iyou do special order and things don't work out, then you have to take a hit reshipping and a restocking fee/ return fee and that's if the sale isn't final. If sales are final then you now have to resell the monitors to someone used.

Or try to buy used if you are comfortable in doing so...

Also your country/ location has a lot to do with pricing of the monitors. Genelec are way over priced in USA compared to the euro price. This is yet another issue with reading opinions online, the poster may have saved x amount By going with one brand over the other and in their mind the " sound " of the X monitor vs Y may be based off that and deemed not worthy based on a price difference.

Also not many people have used all of these monitors enough to even give you an informed opinion. Most find a brand that's fit their ear and music and get to work. When they upgrade they usually stay in the same brand but bigger model. Narrowing your budget down will help you as well Sorry I don't have more a vs b monitor comparison info for you, have a good day.
Old 8th June 2017
  #6
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Arksun's Avatar
Not only do we hear differently, but the room itself makes such a big impact to how these monitors will perform for you, that it really is such a shame you're not able to demo them first. When spending this amount of money you really want to be absolutely sure.

Having said all that, I'll echo what I've previously said about the PSI A21Ms and other fellow owners have echoed similar words. They present a highly detailed sound image with particular emphasis on transients which come through especially well. Their sound is perhaps slightly more on the analytical side than musical side of things (though bit more natural sounding than the A17M) , and they present this detail in a non-fatiguing polite Swiss fashion. Very well phase aligned especially over the crossover which is transparent.
Old 9th June 2017
  #7
Gear Addict
 
veks's Avatar
They are all very expensive. That is their difference.
Old 11th June 2017
  #8
Do you already have some monitors? If so, are you looking to step up in quality? Is there something you are looking to avoid?
These are easier questions to answer on paper.

I think you should just pick a set though and work with them for a year. Learn how they work in your room, with the music you record/mix, how they translate.... nothing will be better than experience in this respect.
Stop analysing, buy a pair of monitors and start making music

My $0.02
Old 14th June 2017
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javamad View Post
Do you already have some monitors? If so, are you looking to step up in quality? Is there something you are looking to avoid?
These are easier questions to answer on paper.

I think you should just pick a set though and work with them for a year. Learn how they work in your room, with the music you record/mix, how they translate.... nothing will be better than experience in this respect.
Stop analysing, buy a pair of monitors and start making music

My $0.02
I'm making music for 21 years....I've started with an old m-audio....than went to Samson....than stopped with Dynaudio Bm6 for about 5 years....Now im getting into bigger projects that needs more and more perfection. I want to avoid speakers that dont translate well on dance floors, I want to avoid speakers that you can't feel the bass.

And I repeat, I can't demo these monitors here in Brazil.
And I repeat, My room is small but VERY well treated by renowed engineers
Old 14th June 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
My room is small but VERY well treated by renowed engineers
If you have renowned engineers at your disposal, I suggest asking them directly what would be best. After all they treated your room VERY well and have heard it. The rest of us have no idea what your space sounds like or is capable of.

If they have suggested speakers and you are ignoring them, why?
Old 14th June 2017
  #11
Gear Head
 

I'll bite. The only ones I've heard in a controlled environment are the PMC two two 8's. In that control room, there are Augspurger mains with TADs and 4x18" subs, and ns-10s. The PMCs had an amazing amount of bass reproduction, so much so I thought it too much personally but it was full, articulate, and very deep. No need for subs with these. The bass was very in your face and switching back to the mains, the flaws were very obvious (with mains). The top end was very extended, crisp and pleasing. Mids seemed to be very balanced throughout. The mids aren't scooped like genelecs and are not as forward as PSI or ns-10s. I've compared the two two 6's to ns-10s and snares hit much harder on the yamahas but obviously very different designs. Another thing, I didnt "hear" the sound of the monitors. Some designs like equator, genelecs, yamahas, etc, you never stop hearing the speaker in front of you and that's something I personally don't want for my mains. Not the case with these. If you're looking for bass I've never heard a speaker bump like the two two 8's. I've heard the PMC IB2S and MB2S XBD and neither had this all encompassing bass, but I'm not so sure they would be great in a small room, feel like these things need a lot of air to move around to get an accurate picture. I've heard the PSIs on your list but not in a controlled environment so I'll let someone else comment on those.
Old 19th June 2017
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
If you have renowned engineers at your disposal, I suggest asking them directly what would be best. After all they treated your room VERY well and have heard it. The rest of us have no idea what your space sounds like or is capable of.

If they have suggested speakers and you are ignoring them, why?
Because of the difficulty of testing speakers in Brazil, all engineers keep working with Genelecs and I know that ATC, PSI and Geithains are special monitors but not known around here....These old engeneers are good to make technical, math, acoustic decisions, but decisions about innovations they keep saying that Genelec + Yamaha ns10 are the top quality... Only who really heard and tested all these special monitors have the authority to talk about monitoring
Old 23rd June 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
Don't know if you liked working on Dynaudios (I have not used older models) or how your room is, but I bought the brand new Dynaudio LYD 48 three-ways today after trying a demo pair, and they are great, go down to 30Hz. I'll save my cash for the day I'm in a room I know I'll stay "forever", know how much mastering or whatever task I do and get that super top of the line stuff then instead of shelling out on an semi expensive pair now. I went from PSI A17s by the way, which are great but too little headroom and lows for my room. I auditioned smaller Amphions at the studio and ATC and Barefoot only at the store. These are easy on the ears, more so than Barefoot and Amphion IMO and to me that matters, especially if you turn up the volume a little. They actually remind me a little of each: some of the dry presentation of the PSI, some very revealing Barefoot and Amphion properties with microdetails and clarity, I really feel I'm listening to a pretty transparent presentation of the source, maybe also because the amp is Class D. Don't know if they'll get the Gearslutz love and hype but they are worth checking out at a that price.
Old 26th June 2017
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy View Post
Don't know if you liked working on Dynaudios (I have not used older models) or how your room is, but I bought the brand new Dynaudio LYD 48 three-ways today after trying a demo pair, and they are great, go down to 30Hz. I'll save my cash for the day I'm in a room I know I'll stay "forever", know how much mastering or whatever task I do and get that super top of the line stuff then instead of shelling out on an semi expensive pair now. I went from PSI A17s by the way, which are great but too little headroom and lows for my room. I auditioned smaller Amphions at the studio and ATC and Barefoot only at the store. These are easy on the ears, more so than Barefoot and Amphion IMO and to me that matters, especially if you turn up the volume a little. They actually remind me a little of each: some of the dry presentation of the PSI, some very revealing Barefoot and Amphion properties with microdetails and clarity, I really feel I'm listening to a pretty transparent presentation of the source, maybe also because the amp is Class D. Don't know if they'll get the Gearslutz love and hype but they are worth checking out at a that price.
I like very much my old Dynaudios....but I feel I need to see the details better. When I compare to my AKG 702 and BeyerDynamic dt 880, I feel that my dynaudio dont reveal small mistakes. Maybe new LYD 48 are more revealing but I think is better to put another brand next to my old dynaudios to complement and show a different perspective of the sound.
Old 27th June 2017
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Weile,
why not a package of smaller Genelec SAM speakers plus SAM sub? This should fullfill your needs perfectly: Very accurate monitoring, extended low frequency range, plus all the benefits from the GLM regarding room acoustics. I can't imagine you would go wrong with such a solution.
Old 27th June 2017
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrich View Post
Weile,
why not a package of smaller Genelec SAM speakers plus SAM sub? This should fullfill your needs perfectly: Very accurate monitoring, extended low frequency range, plus all the benefits from the GLM regarding room acoustics. I can't imagine you would go wrong with such a solution.
Yes this GLM feature I think would be my number 1 option..... The thing is that this Sub addition is another controversial topic because some people say that sub is not good in small rooms....some say that 1 sub is not good in small room, some others say that you have to put 2 subs.... and the last group says that 2 subs ruins everything with battles of low frequencies ahahahahah.....VERY HARD decision with very different opinions on this forum
Old 28th June 2017
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
Yes this GLM feature I think would be my number 1 option..... The thing is that this Sub addition is another controversial topic because some people say that sub is not good in small rooms....some say that 1 sub is not good in small room, some others say that you have to put 2 subs.... and the last group says that 2 subs ruins everything with battles of low frequencies ahahahahah.....VERY HARD decision with very different opinions on this forum
All this forum rumours become unimportant once you use Genelec system. With SAM speakers GLM sub integration is a total piece of cake and properly integrated and set up sub always helps.
Old 28th June 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Did you already tell us the dimensions of your room? (meters, please, not feet...)
Modern SAM Sub with GLM has huge advantages compared to other solutions IMHO, and of you really want to know about 35 Hz... However, really small rooms will never be completely honest about LF.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrich View Post
Did you already tell us the dimensions of your room? (meters, please, not feet...)
Modern SAM Sub with GLM has huge advantages compared to other solutions IMHO, and of you really want to know about 35 Hz... However, really small rooms will never be completely honest about LF.
2,80m x 2,40m x 2,00m (W x L x H)

But I dont know if its better to get 1 sub or 2 subs.....??
Old 3rd July 2017
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
2,80m x 2,40m x 2,00m (W x L x H)

But I dont know if its better to get 1 sub or 2 subs.....??
From what I am reading around, 2 is better than 1 but you should place them asymetrically in the room so they help to even out nulls and waves. In a small room you don't want extra bass energy, you want even energy if possible
Old 26th September 2017
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Taurean's Avatar
@ Weile what did you decide on ultimately, curious to know.
Old 26th September 2017
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
2,80m x 2,40m x 2,00m (W x L x H)

But I dont know if its better to get 1 sub or 2 subs.....??
2 m height??? That's hardly enough to stand in. Spend your money on a bigger room! Hard to work in a closet!
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