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The Importance of Convertors Condenser Microphones
Old 22nd March 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 

The Importance of Convertors

hey sluts,
I got a questions on convertors.
Im currently using digi 002 rack and was considering buying a 2cha/d,2chd/a lavry blue.My question is how big of a audible difference will this make,I mean considering its gonna cost about 2500. Is it worth it?

thanks
Old 22nd March 2007
  #2
Gear Nut
 
tdoranpalmer's Avatar
 

Big difference. Remember when buying Pro-Sumer and Pro Gear there will always be significant differences.

Digi 002 is mid range pro-sumer. Lavry is mid range Pro Gear.

Another consideration is what are you feeding this. You will not notice considerable differences, if what you are feeding the Lavry is lower or mid range pro sumer stuff. Like preamps, compressers etc,. It all works together, quality sound doesn't come from just one piece of gear.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #3
Gear Nut
 

convertors

Im going to use a aurora gtq channel stip and for mics I have a
Rode ntk
pelsulo 22 47le
and Im was thinking of getting the lawson L251

thanks
Old 22nd March 2007
  #4
Gear Nut
 

convertors

I live in danbury ct anybody know a dealer somewhat near by that would let try one out


thanks
Old 22nd March 2007
  #5
Gear Nut
 
tdoranpalmer's Avatar
 

Obviously you are on the right track. I personally believe you will be amazed at the difference. But thats just me.

The cool thing about the Lavry Blue, is you can add additional channels and pres as you need them, via their add on cards.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
LouD.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by critical View Post
I live in danbury ct anybody know a dealer somewhat near by that would let try one out


thanks

Calistro Music in Orange

http://www.calistromusic.com/manufacturer.php?id=49

Craig's a great guy.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 

On this forum I think the importance of conversion is hyped like no other...


Is it important? Sure. Conversion is important, its just as important as any other aspect of the signal chain.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #8
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
On this forum I think the importance of conversion is hyped like no other...
Yes, you're right. But I'd like to elaborate that I believe the differences between converters are hyped in this forum. We all agree that almost any pro level converter will improve the performance and preserve signal quality better than any onboard a prosumer interface.
There is maybe an exception with RME and the lynx cards.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
drumkideric's Avatar
 

I think the most noticabe difference when switch to the lavry blue will be the clocking. The 002 serious has crap for clocks.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
On this forum I think the importance of conversion is hyped like no other...


Is it important? Sure. Conversion is important, its just as important as any other aspect of the signal chain.
Hi Discern,

Until last week I would have agreed with you. Then I did some A/B comparisons with a bunch of the currently very popular and widely discussed models (I only couldn't get any of the benchmark units, unfortunately). I don't want to name names because I don't want to start another brand war and my point is not that one brand is better than another. The point however is that differences are very audible. I don't have golden ears so my naive expectations were that the current state of the art is so good that only under most controlled conditions would one be able to hear subtle differences (if any). In reality, however, the differences were surprisingly apparent (detail, transients, etc.).

As for what is important in the signal chain I would say that mikes + preamps + converters vastly overshadow everything that comes later. Simply, once the garbage is in scarcely anything else can ever come out.

-T
Old 22nd March 2007
  #11
what to upgrade?

Hey can u guys help me out on this...

I just bought a Avalon AD 2022 dual mono pre-amp, and I have a Studio Projects C1 mic and a Motu 828 Interface (the first model)

Of course my mic pre is hi-end and I have a decent sounding mic for straight forward R&B or hip hop vocal recordings. I was thinking about buying a high end converter. Or should I get a better mic? (Neuman TLM103) What should I upgrade to take advantage of my new avalon? Oh I also go thru the Mackie 1202-VLZPro. I'm trying to get my signal chain as good as hi end as possible. What would be considered the bottleneck in this situation? thanks in advance
Old 22nd March 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
A440's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaazKareem View Post
Hey can u guys help me out on this...

I just bought a Avalon AD 2022 dual mono pre-amp, and I have a Studio Projects C1 mic and a Motu 828 Interface (the first model)

Of course my mic pre is hi-end and I have a decent sounding mic for straight forward R&B or hip hop vocal recordings. I was thinking about buying a high end converter. Or should I get a better mic? (Neuman TLM103) What should I upgrade to take advantage of my new avalon? Oh I also go thru the Mackie 1202-VLZPro. I'm trying to get my signal chain as good as hi end as possible. What would be considered the bottleneck in this situation? thanks in advance
Just my 2 cents...I recently improved the sound of my system a fair bit by replacing my Mackie desk with an SM-pro M-Patch 2 monitor controller (not an expensive bit of gear, but it works really well). Also, I think you'll find that most people on GS dislike the TLM-103 ...I happen to quite like mine for certain things but realise now that there are better mics out there for the money..
Old 22nd March 2007
  #13
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
On this forum I think the importance of conversion is hyped like no other...
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
Yes, you're right. But I'd like to elaborate that I believe the differences between converters are hyped in this forum. We all agree that almost any pro level converter will improve the performance and preserve signal quality better than any onboard a prosumer interface.
There is maybe an exception with RME and the lynx cards.
I agree with this as well.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Purusha's Avatar
 

Just curious. I have A16Ultra from Creamware and have noticed many here don't like it or consider this
converters as not useful for some serious work. Can someone explain what is lacking in them?
Old 30th April 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 

i was gonna start a new thread, but glad i found this one.

What about with different genres of music?
Do some styles need/want better conversion than others?

can some styles of music flourish tracking with something like Lavry Blue,
or would everyone benefit from Prisms at every stage?
Old 30th April 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Differences can be shockingly different. I've come to decide that they are as important as differences in preamps. using something like 002 or cheesy MOTU converters are doomed to sound cheap.
Old 30th April 2007
  #17
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
Is it important? Sure. Conversion is important, its just as important as any other aspect of the signal chain.

is anybody hyping it beyond that point? what i tend to see is people downplaying it, saying it's mic then pre then converter, or saying it pre then mic then converter. people debate mic and pre, but conversion tends to get third billing with little dissent.

which is a shame, because i agree with you and others here: conversion is every single bit as important as the mic and the pre.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 30th April 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
is there a website soewhere with comparison files? the same analog signal split up into a bunch of different AD converters? this way everyone could judge themselves how much of a difference converters make. won´t work for DAs though ;-)

if the converter´s influence is as overrated here as much as the preamp importance then oh boy...

Rock!
Pat
Old 30th April 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

converters don't mean **** if your music and/or talent is lacking. not saying that's the case, but...food for thought.
Old 30th April 2007
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post
converters don't mean **** if your music and/or talent is lacking. not saying that's the case, but...food for thought.


Does this need brought up on every thread here? Really.... The gear is the part WE RECORDING ENGINEERS control.

Having a good performance does not give you any guarantee that you will have a good SOUNDING finished product. It might be a more interesting product but it will not sound better all by it's self. You need good gear and experience on how to use it to make good sounding recordings.

I just wish we could get over having to post "it's all about the performance" on each and every thread. This is a gear site... where we talk about gear.

To the original post.... I just got a new CD player and sold my Benchmark DAC-1. I listened to the first 10 seconds of a CD with the internal converters and decided I needed to get a new DAC for it (no exaggeration at all).... my Mytek Stereo 96 is in the mail right now. Converters are VERY important to what we do.

Old 30th April 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post
converters don't mean **** if your music and/or talent is lacking. not saying that's the case, but...food for thought.
I work on other people's music, not my own. So do a lot of us here. So whether or not the musicians suck is not up to me- getting good sound is.

Is anyone here hyping converters over any other part of the signal chain? I don't really see that. I agree you can't downplay their importance. I also think that the differences in sound with even in midrange pro models can be pretty big to my ears when I've gone from one to another in the same room/speakers.
Old 30th April 2007
  #22
it should be noted that any converter is really a combination of the converter and the analog line stage - so being an analog device too, is subject to the same differences with respect to analog gain stage design and what not. not all of the sound is dependent just upon the "conversion process" unto itself.
Old 30th April 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Bob Yordan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purusha View Post
Just curious. I have A16Ultra from Creamware and have noticed many here don't like it or consider this
converters as not useful for some serious work. Can someone explain what is lacking in them?
I use the A16 in my recording room. It sounds great, IMHO. Anyway it is in the RME converter class.
Old 30th April 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
severe's Avatar
 

This whole thread reads like a bad case of deja vu, huh?

Here's some help for WildCowboys and Purusha. I was recently in the market for some new converters to add to my current Apogee and RME units. The following link is something I found while researching the Creamware A16 Ultra. While not top notch converters here, the simple comparison still proves a point.

Comparing Converters @ 3db.
Old 30th April 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by severe View Post
This whole thread reads like a bad case of deja vu, huh?

Here's some help for WildCowboys and Purusha. I was recently in the market for some new converters to add to my current Apogee and RME units. The following link is something I found while researching the Creamware A16 Ultra. While not top notch converters here, the simple comparison still proves a point.

Comparing Converters @ 3db.
thanks for the link!

but this is EXACTLY what makes this GS community such a non-perfect place! Once again someone is posting "comparison" files that were done on different takes. Am I the only one who is aware that in such tests we are listening to differences in the takes and then think we are listening to the gear? it just does not work this way except when there is no better way to do a test. but especially with converters it´s so easy. split the signal after the pre and go into different converters. so simple. everything else is not saying much....

...I will listen to the files anyway and then post what I think....

cheers,
p
Old 30th April 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
ok,. done listening.

so exactly as I thought....the drummer played the snare at different strengths for each take. the snare is clearly louder on "A" than on "4" and softest on "K" - and not surprisingly everybody says "wow, A is the freshest sounding with the best transient response" while "K" is the dullest and weakest.

So to my ears it is clear that he played the takes with different intensity. That´s what I hear. And even if I was wrong nobody can EVER find out because then it could be either the playing or the converters but there is no way to check it out anymore!

Trash all those "tests" with multiple takes. They are misleading and innacurate. Get your sh*t together everybody and do proper testing.


Cheers,
Pat
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