The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Did microphone design really peak in the 1950's? Condenser Microphones
Old 1st June 2017
  #241
Microphone electronics have certainly improved. There is plenty of discovery to be had in capsule development as well.

The future is coming whether you like it or not.
Old 4th June 2017
  #242
Lives for gear
The wheel can't get any rounder.
Old 4th June 2017
  #243
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psykostx View Post
The wheel can't get any rounder.
No, but you can make a cheaper, sightly crappier wheel and most people won't care that it isn't quite round because they've never experienced a truly round one.

If you've ever pushed a cart through Walmart you know what I mean.
Old 4th June 2017
  #244
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
No, but you can make a cheaper, sightly crappier wheel and most people won't care that it isn't quite round because they've never experienced a truly round one.

If you've ever pushed a cart through Walmart you know what I mean.
Indeed. And people would rather put hub caps on some unreliable, overpriced rust-bucket and pretend their car is fancy rather than own a sensible car and rent a true luxury or performance vehicle when it's appropriate.

It's very difficult to sell an artist on the benefits of using a studio because the local retail aisle full of easily owned, cheap shiny objects is much more appealing than being invested, focused and responsible for and during a limited, non-refundable time period.
Old 4th June 2017
  #245
Lives for gear
 
DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
No, but you can make a cheaper, sightly crappier wheel and most people won't care that it isn't quite round because they've never experienced a truly round one.

If you've ever pushed a cart through Walmart you know what I mean.
But everyone experiences those old wheels through every old recording we've ever heard, so your analogy doesn't work.
Old 4th June 2017
  #246
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
No, but you can make a cheaper, sightly crappier wheel and most people won't care that it isn't quite round because they've never experienced a truly round one.

If you've ever pushed a cart through Walmart you know what I mean.
dude, those wobbly old wheels were the real deal!

Everyone knows that the more out of round it is, the more MOJO it has! Modern manufacturers TRY to make a wheel that is slightly flat on the bottom like a supermarket cart, but they can never quite get the planing action of a stuck wheel on the asphalt parking lot.

They can make them wobbly, but not the same exact amount of wobbly, the mojo is not there.
Old 4th June 2017
  #247
Gear Maniac
 
Roloalcien's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGreen View Post
Humans are always locked in a narrative of past experience. Our minds constantly seek familiarity in a way we are rarely conscious of. Familiarity is a base part of our species survival. We will always be drawn to what we know vs. What's new.
Additionally, we haven't moved forward as much as we think. Humans started transmitting communications with drums and smoke signals, we have advanced to 1s and 0s.... While much faster, and more elegant in presentation, the method is near identical. We are just so full of our own sh!t, we see massive advancements.

I like 57s on guitar cabs because my life has been spent hearing that. It is what it is.

Totally agree with you, that´s another reason that makes vintage analogue gear and vinyl still valuable even with their limitations. (I´m not saying they are worse but certain people choose that discomfort over the facilities of new technologies just because of that familiarity)
Old 4th June 2017
  #248
Gear Addict
 
Wonderbird's Avatar
 

I think people are scared that new cheap things can be awesome. I recorded a song last year that over 300 million people have heard with a 90€ Sontronics microphone. Even thou I have Manley etc. Sounds great. I have a 1073 and a 1176 (both hardware) so I guess that did its **** as well on the cheap microphone.
Old 4th June 2017
  #249
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
dude, those wobbly old wheels were the real deal!

Everyone knows that the more out of round it is, the more MOJO it has! Modern manufacturers TRY to make a wheel that is slightly flat on the bottom like a supermarket cart, but they can never quite get the planing action of a stuck wheel on the asphalt parking lot.

They can make them wobbly, but not the same exact amount of wobbly, the mojo is not there.
Yea! Last time I was at Wal-Mart I was given some sort of cheap-ass VST simulated cart instead of a real one. No-one could possibly mistake it for the real thing .
Old 18th June 2017
  #250
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Standstraight View Post
I think people are scared that new cheap things can be awesome. I recorded a song last year that over 300 million people have heard with a 90€ Sontronics microphone. Even thou I have Manley etc. Sounds great. I have a 1073 and a 1176 (both hardware) so I guess that did its **** as well on the cheap microphone.
Not surprising and not a new thing, really. Your 90€ Sontronics mic cost about the same as an SM57 or (if they still made them) a D19C, both of which can sound stunning through a 1073 and an 1176. On the right source, of course. ; )

But the SM57 and D19C are not new or current tech by any stretch - both more than 50yr old designs that have stood the test of time. So it's not just new cheap things that can be awesome, and peoples' attitudes to quality vs price aren't all that new either.

The thing is, just because some cheap things are awesome doesn't mean most are, and the trick is, as it always has been, sifting through the dross and recognising the occasional gem.
Old 18th June 2017
  #251
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
One thing that is interesting about this focus on certain old microphones that have sort of been designated as the numinous objects for studios is that it kind of provides a standard that various manufacturers can target, and the discussion will be about whether people think this or that mic sounds 'just like' the numinous one. I am seeing this leading almost to a component/commoditization of these mics. We can talk about whether this or that capsule sounds like the numinous one, and we can do the same with the electronics. Much like a desktop computer, folks can take a mic and upgrade the electronics or the capsule. And of course I see the same sort of thinking regarding outboard electronics, where a fairly small number of products are declared numinous and since they are old designs, out of patent, there is a mini-industry of making clones and again, robust discussion where the criteria is the accuracy of the duplication of the sound of the original device.

And: Commoditization leads to big price drops! What is the cheapest geegaw that sounds 99% like the numinous one? I can get that and save thousands of dollars!

I am not the only one to suggest that the sound of the ancient numinous mic is not a standard due to variance from device to device during manufacturing, and also that its impossible to know what they sounded like 40-60 years ago--but nonetheless there may be enough of a family resemblence to be a useful standard.

Anyway, I am feeling like I could not quite convey my insight properly here, but just meditating on the dynamics of a situation where the criteria is the fidelity of a clone rather than a wide open criteria of what sounds better in today's environment. Having said that, perhaps the judgement of a large group of professionals that have identified a small number of products, out of thousands made, that have distinguished themselves over the decades, is not a bad target to shoot for. Its not my target, but I am simply an armchair bedroom producer type, who knows a lot about acoustics and electronics, with no track record to back up my insights.

While the subjective notion of what mic sounds better is a pretty wide open discussion, it may be that the extent that something sounds like a given object is something where its easier to arrive at a consensus. And to the extent that the number of 'clone' units manufactured increases, there will be the sort of cost savings associated with high volumes and a standardized process.

This is an interesting phenomenon to my thinking because I have experienced this in a deeply personal way in terms of the guitar amps of the musicians who were charting rock in the 1960s-70s. Specifically, my own criteria for years was 'what jimmy page used'--I didn't even know what a compressor or delay/echo was or what they did to the sound. So, I pursued a fool's errand of looking for guitar tone that only existed in a studio with an effects chain. Hell, back then I didn't know that the opening lick to Misty Mountain Hop was played on a keyboard--I was trying to figure out how page made a guitar that way. Hard for a group of suburban kids to find out what was really going on in studios before the internet...

Too bad I didn't have the amp information today I had then: Small amps used in the studio even though marshall stacks used on stage--and page played a tele on the first two albums--more affordable than a les paul for a kid working at a bowling alley...

I have mentioned on other posts that by studying the circuits and parts of these amps, and building one myself, my thinking evolved to the point where I no longer wanted to posses something astronomically expensive, like a plexi era marshall, but could appreciate a modern clone, or similarly voiced unit with modern parts and no 60 cycle hum. So, I see this as a mode of thinking that exists across multiple technologies. There are also numinous old devices in the audiophile mindset--at least in the 90s when I spent a lot of time and money in that realm. Do I need to build a mic to help my thinking? I doubt it, and its not on my to do list.

If you got this far, I hope you found it useful to your own thinking. Writing helps me clarify my own thinking, so in some respects its an inherently selfish act.
Old 19th June 2017
  #252
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
One thing that is interesting about this focus on certain old microphones that have sort of been designated as the numinous objects for studios
Hey, and if mic's not noumenal, it's phenomenal!
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump