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Recording studio - good idea? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 9th March 2017
  #1
Gear Head
 

Recording studio - good idea?

Hello,
I didn't know where to put the question, so if it is in the wrong place, I'm sorry.
I have a recording studio in Croatia. The recording room is big (and high). The acoustic is great (professionally treated). Also we are equiped with new and vintage gear (Studer desk, tape machines, plate reverbs, vintage high end mics..).
I also have acces to all kind of professional musicians - from drummers, guitar and bass guitar players to classical instruments (strings, french horns, tubas, you name it). They can play written music or they can make arrangements.
The question is - do you guys think that someone would be interesting in arrangements and recordings of those instruments for whatever needs? For example, you are working on a pop song and need strings or brass - you can send me a demo or tracks, I can record whatever instrument or ensamble and return those tracks via email. I can also record them on tape, put them through EMT 140 plate, record drums on tape...
Obviously I need to make some good examples of sound, but that is a huge amount of work. Prior to that, do you guys think that service like this could be interesting to somenone?
Thanks
Old 9th March 2017
  #2
I think it would depend on rates.... me being a hobby 'bedroom producer' don't have much to spend on audio.

But if I could send my midi horn section and get it back as a well recorded real horn section for 50,- I would use the service.

Horn and string sections means lots of people, and they all have to eat and get a fair pay for their work,... I don't know if this will work out unless you start exploiting people....

But in general, it's what studio's do isn't it ? record stuff for other people...
Old 9th March 2017
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post
I think it would depend on rates.... me being a hobby 'bedroom producer' don't have much to spend on audio.

But if I could send my midi horn section and get it back as a well recorded real horn section for 50,- I would use the service.

Horn and string sections means lots of people, and they all have to eat and get a fair pay for their work,... I don't know if this will work out unless you start exploiting people....

But in general, it's what studio's do isn't it ? record stuff for other people...
$50?? To pay the horn players, the studio engineer, the studio, the maintenance guy, the electricity...???
Old 9th March 2017
  #4
Like I sayd, that would not be possible without exploiting people.... but for me as a hobbyist doing my thing 50,- is about what I could spend for a service like that.
I can get a local horn section + studio no problem.... great facilities here just a few blocks away, like MCO and Wisseloord, but I don't have the budget to record a horn section there, just for the fun of it... for doodling around. But trowing 50,- at the occasional doodle, yes, I would.

If a recorddeal was involved things would change... budgets would change.

So from my perspective this probably would not work unless rates were really low.
Old 9th March 2017
  #5
Gear Head
 

Thanks for answer. Well the price has to be calculated on basis of time spent and number of musicians. But why not? How many home recorders can record a drum set properly? Or on tape? I guess you can do (with some limited results) electric guitar and bass, but the drums are tricky. Strings and horns are completely different story. You just can't make a proper sound with vst instruments. So who knows, maybe someone could need the service? Maybe money is not an issue but time and lack of good players?
Old 9th March 2017
  #6
If people are not in a rush and all too picky it could work,... let's say you got a 4 player string section in, and a number of people have send you their synth string parts, all those people paying 50,- could be enough for a day of string section recording maybe ?

I can see things work like this in the future, the music industry is upside down anyways, game is allready over, time to take it back ourselves.
Old 9th March 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Showcase's Avatar
 

I think, especially for strings and horns... i would use such service for sure
Old 9th March 2017
  #8
Remote recording is nothing new - self recording drummers do it all the time, even the idea of a full recording of a string section etc is feasible if fully orchestrated.

The price suggested is laughably low of course, even for a multi-song session in Croatia - assuming a 3hr session, maybe 2 per day (don't know how it works there but that's usual here) you're still looking at a realistic maximum of 3 straightforward tracks/session, which is more than $300/day I would have thought for a quartet plus studio.

This sort of thing isn't really aimed at bedroom producers; it's aimed at pro releases with no facilities to do this. Trouble is, unless you're really remote, in any larger city it's easy to do non-remotely.

Simple answer is try it - work out what the reasonable rate is, offer sessions for that fee, and see how it goes. It's just another session, after all.
Old 10th March 2017
  #9
Gear Nut
 

I would certainly pay for a 24 channel tape layback and some added channels of your analog effects(wet) that i could later on mix as I'd like.
That way you could keep the price low and the hours few.

I'd bid that people who know what they want would use your service.


I offered tape layback service when i had a studer a800 and a vintage MCI JH-16 8ch 1" with trafos.
Old 10th March 2017
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by frcake View Post
I offered tape layback service when i had a studer a800 and a vintage MCI JH-16 8ch 1" with trafos.
How much interest/work did you get out of this, out of interest?
Old 10th March 2017
  #11
Gear Nut
 

well it was the main thing after a while , whenever i had the chance to offer it to some client , just a fast layback on groups or even stereo and ask if they'd like that .

9/10 said yes and i added a fee on the price as a sound enhancement. 20-30 e/track depending on the client.


I once had a client who refused an a80 1/2" stereo layback , well that was weird... damn it was twice the sound

The reason i say main thing is that many people came after that with mixed material looking for just a layback for the enhancement ... , though i don't recommend such practice cause the signal is really not ready to be recorded on tape , everyone used it in the end.


Now about keeping track of the earnings, i did not track them simply because i was never a sound engineer as a day job. I'm a programmer , so sound is my very very serious hobby , i certainly throw more money in the pit than i earn from it but i think if someone is a serious professional with good tape machines and a way to shout about it(laybacks) im pretty sure people will bite.

But as i said , we kept it on a budget and the time spent doing it as a procedure was also very small.


When you think that most people go to mastering engineers to get a "Warmer" / "Analog" result there's certainly a need out there...

To sum up , i think if you have them laying around it's a good choice to start advertising this service , i really saw people get interested.
9/10 of them responded as hearing the result more "official" or closer to "end product". (1/10 is the odd person).

P.S. Someone could think that i was there advertising tape and analog , shouting that this is the best and stuff.
I really don't do that , 99% of the time I'm curious myself , especially with the JH-16 , man that thing was savage.
The A/B test is always done by the client with his eyes closed and his finger on the A/B and the signals were carefully matched.
Old 10th March 2017
  #12
I was wondering more about remote sessions, rather than as in-house add ons, as the OP is asking - obviously if you're there you can assess the results, but paying for something blindly is a different case!


Quote:
Originally Posted by frcake View Post
well it was the main thing after a while , whenever i had the chance to offer it to some client , just a fast layback on groups or even stereo and ask if they'd like that .

9/10 said yes and i added a fee on the price as a sound enhancement. 20-30 e/track depending on the client.


I once had a client who refused an a80 1/2" stereo layback , well that was weird... damn it was twice the sound

The reason i say main thing is that many people came after that with mixed material looking for just a layback for the enhancement ... , though i don't recommend such practice cause the signal is really not ready to be recorded on tape , everyone used it in the end.


Now about keeping track of the earnings, i did not track them simply because i was never a sound engineer as a day job. I'm a programmer , so sound is my very very serious hobby , i certainly throw more money in the pit than i earn from it but i think if someone is a serious professional with good tape machines and a way to shout about it(laybacks) im pretty sure people will bite.

But as i said , we kept it on a budget and the time spent doing it as a procedure was also very small.


When you think that most people go to mastering engineers to get a "Warmer" / "Analog" result there's certainly a need out there...

To sum up , i think if you have them laying around it's a good choice to start advertising this service , i really saw people get interested.
9/10 of them responded as hearing the result more "official" or closer to "end product". (1/10 is the odd person).

P.S. Someone could think that i was there advertising tape and analog , shouting that this is the best and stuff.
I really don't do that , 99% of the time I'm curious myself , especially with the JH-16 , man that thing was savage.
The A/B test is always done by the client with his eyes closed and his finger on the A/B and the signals were carefully matched.
Old 10th March 2017
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I was wondering more about remote sessions, rather than as in-house add ons, as the OP is asking - obviously if you're there you can assess the results, but paying for something blindly is a different case!
I do agree, and that's why i said before that people who know what they want would be intrested.

The reason i mention all this , is that in the end , it was a blind process with nothing tweaked or something. I do agree that it's not the same I'm just giving my 2c about a service i think would be nice to be offered.


Also you can obviously send half the track or w/e so the 2 ends meet in the middle but that's apparent.


Still , point taken.
Old 10th March 2017
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by frcake View Post
I do agree, and that's why i said before that people who know what they want would be intrested.

The reason i mention all this , is that in the end , it was a blind process with nothing tweaked or something. I do agree that it's not the same I'm just giving my 2c about a service i think would be nice to be offered.


Also you can obviously send half the track or w/e so the 2 ends meet in the middle but that's apparent.


Still , point taken.
Was just interested in the feasibility - no points to make on my behalf really!

You see sites like Audiohunt, and I was interested to see if anyone actually made any money on it!
Old 10th March 2017
  #15
330128
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Was just interested in the feasibility - no points to make on my behalf really!

You see sites like Audiohunt, and I was interested to see if anyone actually made any money on it!
I've always wondered this. Say you want some EMT140 on an individual track, do you send your whole mix so they can apply it in context with the song/mix? Treatment without context seems strange.
Old 10th March 2017
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
$50?? To pay the horn players, the studio engineer, the studio, the maintenance guy, the electricity...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post
Like I sayd, that would not be possible without exploiting people.... but for me as a hobbyist doing my thing 50,- is about what I could spend for a service like that.
I can get a local horn section + studio no problem.... great facilities here just a few blocks away, like MCO and Wisseloord, but I don't have the budget to record a horn section there, just for the fun of it... for doodling around. But trowing 50,- at the occasional doodle, yes, I would.

If a recorddeal was involved things would change... budgets would change.

So from my perspective this probably would not work unless rates were really low.
If you give them time to accumulate similar orders(which at that rate you should)...if the engineer and musicians could schedule a full day out of it, knock out each song in 20 minutes it might be sustainable and worthwhile. More than a few musicians would still be tough, but it could work. No one would be getting rich, but it would no longer be a musical charity.
Old 10th March 2017
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesewhiteman View Post
If you give them time to accumulate similar orders(which at that rate you should)...if the engineer and musicians could schedule a full day out of it, knock out each song in 20 minutes it might be sustainable and worthwhile. More than a few musicians would still be tough, but it could work. No one would be getting rich, but it would no longer be a musical charity.
Lots of ifs. Never know until you try...but I would say be prepared for it to be more hassle than it's worth!
Old 10th March 2017
  #18
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
Thanks for answer. Well the price has to be calculated on basis of time spent and number of musicians. But why not? How many home recorders can record a drum set properly? Or on tape? I guess you can do (with some limited results) electric guitar and bass, but the drums are tricky. Strings and horns are completely different story. You just can't make a proper sound with vst instruments. So who knows, maybe someone could need the service? Maybe money is not an issue but time and lack of good players?
There's always a need for this sort of stuff...
Old 10th March 2017
  #19
Gear Head
 

Thank you very much for answering
I asume I can make a pretty good price.These days I'm having conversations with musicians and we are trying to find a model that would be ok for clients and for us. The reason why I asked all this is because here in Croatia there are not lot of the bands and clients (small country), but I think that the world is a market and that could work. Of course, I would put a lot of examples on my web page (with short movies) and wouldn't charge until client is sattisfed.
Regarding the tape - I can record both on tape and digital at once, so we can make comaprison and regarding the EMT 140 (or Lexicon 224, AKG BX15...) If I have just one track, I can make five wet tracks (1,2,3,4,5 seconds reverb time) without EQ, so the client can choose the best reverb time for miks. I have 2 stereo tube units that sound different, so he can even pich the plate that he likes.
Here is a picture of recording a french horn for one of my songs
https://ibb.co/hqhkYv
Old 10th March 2017
  #20
Gear Nut
Pop...

No sarcasm here....trying to think of a MODERN POP song with strings and/or brass....Any thoughts?
Anyone who needs an EMT/ tape layback etc....can rent that in most major cities...
What am I missing here?
Old 10th March 2017
  #21
Gear Nut
Pop...

I use an old Ampex MM1200, 16 [email protected] ips patched to converters...
In Logic, I use the I/O plug to run things on and off the reels...
realtime prints......
A great many projects come in the door already suffering from "MP3ness"/cheap converter/20 year old engineer/100 dollar mic etc..... People who require the sound of "tape" are typically AT a studio that has tape machine(s), and probably a real chamber or two....California/I represent the Yay Area...
Couldn't imagine this being a sustainable venture, but much luck with it...
Old 10th March 2017
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicbill View Post
No sarcasm here....trying to think of a MODERN POP song with strings and/or brass....Any thoughts?
Coldplay's Ghost Stories: True Love, Oceans. Killers' Day & Age: Goodnight, Travel Well, Lana del Rey: Born to Die, Young and Beautiful. Quite frankly, I have string player friends who are hired by Dr. Dre (so not "pop") all the time.

Brass isn't called for so much as string sections. (but you're ignoring all the commercial work (shorts/ads/indie films)) Also there is the massive trailer/jingle market who don't/won't pay royalties/cue sheet.
Old 10th March 2017
  #23
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post

But if I could send my midi horn section and get it back as a well recorded real horn section for 50,- I would use the service..
I doubt you can even get your MIDI piano file "Synclaviered" for $50

$50 might cover someone's time to listen to the midi horns and write the chart! But what about paying the musicians and the studio?
Old 10th March 2017
  #24
Gear Head
 

Well, I think that maybe lot of studios have the equipment but it is expensive to record on it. Also, if you are in LA or in NY maybe finding those studios isn't a problem, but I guess you can't find Studers c37, J37, Telefunkens... on every step and in great working condition. On the other hand I had to make lot of contacts finding the right people for my projects (and Croatia has great many clasical players), so I imagine how much effort one person has to put to find good studio, right musicians and with the questionable result. This way I would offer the recording and you don't have to pay it until you are sattisfied. And you don't have to move from your house
I know this is not for everybody but in the world of ebay, door to door delivery etc. maybe someone would like to work that way. And as somebody mentioned in earlier posts, If few sessions can be merged in one day session, the price would be more than reasonable... I'm just trying to see If I can use my studio other than just recording bands that come on site
Old 10th March 2017
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
Hello,
I didn't know where to put the question, so if it is in the wrong place, I'm sorry.
I have a recording studio in Croatia. The recording room is big (and high). The acoustic is great (professionally treated). Also we are equiped with new and vintage gear (Studer desk, tape machines, plate reverbs, vintage high end mics..).
I also have acces to all kind of professional musicians - from drummers, guitar and bass guitar players to classical instruments (strings, french horns, tubas, you name it). They can play written music or they can make arrangements.
The question is - do you guys think that someone would be interesting in arrangements and recordings of those instruments for whatever needs? For example, you are working on a pop song and need strings or brass - you can send me a demo or tracks, I can record whatever instrument or ensamble and return those tracks via email. I can also record them on tape, put them through EMT 140 plate, record drums on tape...
Obviously I need to make some good examples of sound, but that is a huge amount of work. Prior to that, do you guys think that service like this could be interesting to somenone?
Thanks
Here's someone that does similar https://custom-tracks.com/about-us/
The numbers don't really make sense, and it seems like it'd be close to having a real job when it comes to the administration work. gl.
Old 10th March 2017
  #26
Gear Head
 

Do you think it is too expensive or too cheap? I think I could fit in those numbers with no problem at all.
Old 10th March 2017
  #27
Lives for gear
 

I'll only speak for LA on this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
Well, I think that maybe lot of studios have the equipment but it is expensive to record on it. Also, if you are in LA or in NY maybe finding those studios isn't a problem, but I guess you can't find Studers c37, J37, Telefunkens... on every step and in great working condition.
Really not a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
On the other hand I had to make lot of contacts finding the right people for my projects (and Croatia has great many clasical players), so I imagine how much effort one person has to put to find good studio, right musicians and with the questionable result.
I think (unless it is a monitored session) your work would be a questionable result. Being in person for the record session will always be preferred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
This way I would offer the recording and you don't have to pay it until you are sattisfied. And you don't have to move from your house
I would not suggest this. You will lose money (and get a lot of angry players.) You can't leave things open-ended. Have you worked with writers and producers.. they will take as much as they can.

The big point about going overseas (and we do to places like Bratislava all the time on monitored sessions (source-connect)) is that we have to deal with musician union payouts here in Los Angeles. A single payment trumps long-term payouts.That's the benefit of going elsewhere with session players. I don't know how you will cost things but going by our standards on a 3 hour session, I'd assign a value to a player and assume you get 5-7 usable minutes of music per hour so if someone wants 14 violinists for a 5 minute piece of playing: 14 * player rate/hour * 1 hour to get what to charge them. And I would never (no offense) want your mix. You're the tracking engineer (even if printing to tape which would be an upcharge for time and materials) not the mix engineer. You will have no idea what the mix needs to be in the end.
Old 10th March 2017
  #28
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I'll only speak for LA on this...

Really not a problem.
I think (unless it is a monitored session) your work would be a questionable result. Being in person for the record session will always be preferred.

I would not suggest this. You will lose money (and get a lot of angry players.) You can't leave things open-ended. Have you worked with writers and producers.. they will take as much as they can.

The big point about going overseas (and we do to places like Bratislava all the time on monitored sessions (source-connect)) is that we have to deal with musician union payouts here in Los Angeles. A single payment trumps long-term payouts.That's the benefit of going elsewhere with session players. I don't know how you will cost things but going by our standards on a 3 hour session, I'd assign a value to a player and assume you get 5-7 usable minutes of music per hour so if someone wants 14 violinists for a 5 minute piece of playing: 14 * player rate/hour * 1 hour to get what to charge them. And I would never (no offense) want your mix. You're the tracking engineer (even if printing to tape which would be an upcharge for time and materials) not the mix engineer. You will have no idea what the mix needs to be in the end.
Thank you very much for your input. I guess you are right in most of aspects. I guess it is true for LA, but of course, everybody is not in LA and I think pricess are higher in USA than in Croatia
Of course I would like to be payed, but amastering engeneers also collect the money after the client is sattisfied. Maybe we could start with some easier projects (one instrument or two) and then build our good feedback. We are not in a hurry.
And regarding the mix - of course I wouldn't mix it. I would send the tracks one by one and the only "mix" would be from stereo room condenser mic. For example - one mic on each instrument in string quartet, one room mic and one stereo mic - so 7 tracks in total, unprocessed. You can do whatever you want with them in the mix later.
Old 10th March 2017
  #29
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
The reason why I asked all this is because here in Croatia there are not lot of the bands and clients (small country), but I think that the world is a market and that could work.
I think this kind of falls under "nice work if you can get it". Unfortunately there is no shortage of competent musicians, nice studios and talented arrangers - the real shortage is a shortage of these types of jobs. As psycho_monkey said, the professionals - the ad agencies, film companies, record labels who NEED these services have deliberately located to major cities where musicians abound.

In most of those cities I bet it is still a buyer's market.


Quote:
Do you think it is too expensive or too cheap? I think I could fit in those numbers with no problem at all.
I wonder if this website you are looking at has any actual clients or if they too, are just hopefully dropping their line in the water and waiting for a bite?
Old 10th March 2017
  #30
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I think this kind of falls under "nice work if you can get it". Unfortunately there is no shortage of competent musicians, nice studios and talented arrangers - the real shortage is a shortage of these types of jobs. As psycho_monkey said, the professionals - the ad agencies, film companies, record labels who NEED these services have deliberately located to major cities where musicians abound.

In most of those cities I bet it is still a buyer's market.



I wonder if this website you are looking at has any actual clients or if they too, are just hopefully dropping their line in the water and waiting for a bite?
I see what you mean and I'll keep that in mind.
I also don't know. But, it doesn't hurt to try.
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