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Recording studio - good idea?
Old 10th March 2017
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I doubt you can even get your MIDI piano file "Synclaviered" for $50

$50 might cover someone's time to listen to the midi horns and write the chart! But what about paying the musicians and the studio?
I think I'm being misunderstood here,... I allready mentioned the exploitation thing...

My version of that horn section would be 3 guys, trobone, trumpet and sax doing a couple of "pep pep peppedeppeppaauw" in A minor and be done with it...
That's the type of horns I use or actually don't use because they all sound like sh*t... and I am also not going to rent a studio + horn section to have a couple of guys do "pep pep peppedeppeppaauw" in A minor for about 500,-
(think this can be done in 15 min)

Or send in a 4 bar drumloop to have that loop replaced by a 4 bar real drumkit playing the same groove... again, I'm not going to rent out a facility + drummer to record a 4 bar loop for 500,- ...I'm simply not going to as a hobbyist... ever ! (If you have a studio space and a kit setup this could be done in 5 min)

Handing over a full blown production, yes, that will intriduce the rates that go with a full blown production.... I think there is a gap in that market still for the less demanding bedroom hobbyist.

Actually my dream is to open up a free studio, a comunity arthub, where kids learn from pensioners, stuff gets build, repaired, recorded, and everybody with a talent and a need can apply to use it.... still have to figure how I'm going to eat.

I simply don't believe in commerce (nor communism nor any other system) it's all a big ponzie scheme anyway... if we only go the direction this market dictates were done,... we need to be creative and break out and take back the things that are being taken from us...

So I think there is a niche left as more people mentioned to be willing to use an affordable service like that...

The industy is changing anyway and the western paradigm of business is comming to an end.... adapt now, or be gone.

What happened to the majority of studio's ........ ..... all gone !
Old 10th March 2017
  #32
Gear Head
 

I couldn't agree more. I also think that the era of big studios is behind us (maybe a few of them for really big stars). But that doesn't have to mean that something can't be done between home recording and top productions. I think (beside the quality of work) that the price will dictate is it going to be a good move or not. I will make some calcultaions, maybe even during this weekend and see if I can make an attractive price. I hope I will
Old 10th March 2017
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post
I think I'm being misunderstood here,... I allready mentioned the exploitation thing...

My version of that horn section would be 3 guys, trobone, trumpet and sax doing a couple of "pep pep peppedeppeppaauw" in A minor and be done with it...
That's the type of horns I use or actually don't use because they all sound like sh*t... and I am also not going to rent a studio + horn section to have a couple of guys do "pep pep peppedeppeppaauw" in A minor for about 500,-
(think this can be done in 15 min)

Or send in a 4 bar drumloop to have that loop replaced by a 4 bar real drumkit playing the same groove... again, I'm not going to rent out a facility + drummer to record a 4 bar loop for 500,- ...I'm simply not going to as a hobbyist... ever ! (If you have a studio space and a kit setup this could be done in 5 min)

Handing over a full blown production, yes, that will intriduce the rates that go with a full blown production.... I think there is a gap in that market still for the less demanding bedroom hobbyist.

Actually my dream is to open up a free studio, a comunity arthub, where kids learn from pensioners, stuff gets build, repaired, recorded, and everybody with a talent and a need can apply to use it.... still have to figure how I'm going to eat.

I simply don't believe in commerce (nor communism nor any other system) it's all a big ponzie scheme anyway... if we only go the direction this market dictates were done,... we need to be creative and break out and take back the things that are being taken from us...

So I think there is a niche left as more people mentioned to be willing to use an affordable service like that...

The industy is changing anyway and the western paradigm of business is comming to an end.... adapt now, or be gone.

What happened to the majority of studio's ........ ..... all gone !
I think it could work in this case. Even a whole 4 minute song should be doable. I think in most cases the midi will be fairly simple. If the players are decent all they should need is to hear it once and maybe see a chord sheet, do a couple takes of a simple part should be great provided the room is decent. Maybe even do another take with some embellishments and knock out 2-3 songs per hour. I'd be thrilled to have that.

Just set a rate for yourself and for musicians and see what happens. Like I said before if you can fill up a full day session for strings one day... it could be worth it for everyone and if you're looking for work to fill out your schedule it'd beat staring at your amazing gear in your amazing room, not having work.

I know I'd try out your service for drums and strings, and if it was good you'd have continued work through me.
Old 10th March 2017
  #34
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post

My version of that horn section would be 3 guys, trobone, trumpet and sax doing a couple of "pep pep peppedeppeppaauw" in A minor and be done with it...
..
(think this can be done in 15 min)
so find 3 high school students from a marching band near you, write out the charts for four songs and pay them each $20 for an hour of their time. 15 minutes a song, right?

Quote:
I think there is a gap in that market still for the less demanding bedroom hobbyist.
To the extent that you and the OP have discussed numbers, it seems to me that you are very very far apart still. "I am less demanding- lower my price" ? But the real bottom line here is not the cost of 'doing it well' its the cost of doing it at all. Once they have a real studio and real musicians, how much can they save off their costs by doing a half-assed job? Not much.

The idea that they could 'accumulate' a day's worth of horn sections only works if they have a ton of business. Or if all the clients are willing to wait until a day's worth of work accumulates!

Quote:
Actually my dream is to open up a free studio, a comunity arthub, where kids learn from pensioners, stuff gets build, repaired, recorded, and everybody with a talent and a need can apply to use it.... still have to figure how I'm going to eat.
details, details!

There is a free studio that opened in Brooklyn. It is funded by Converse - the sneaker company. It has created a lot of bitterness from the local community, because it is just one more factor killing the business of the small independent recording studios trying to keep their doors open in what should have been one of the most vibrant scenes left in the country. It is a public-relations gimmick for a giant international corporation, but even it was a do-gooder 'art-hub' it would still have the same negative impact on the small independent community studios trying to stay alive. .

Quote:
I simply don't believe in commerce (nor communism nor any other system) it's all a big ponzie scheme anyway... if we only go the direction this market dictates were done,... we need to be creative and break out and take back the things that are being taken from us...
I think you can make an excellent case for all citizens being entitled to food clothing and shelter, health care, and education. The idea that all citizens should be entitled to recording time and horn sections strikes me as a reach. Nobody 'took that away from you'. In fact, IMO, you are privileged to live in a time when you can get a "tape deck" and a "mixing console" for the cost of a piece of software. A tape deck used to cost tens of thousands of dollars, in a time when the dollar was worth twice what it is today. And a console could cost a hundred grand.

In any case, those studio/horn section 'rights', should probably have to WAIT until, oh you know, everybody has FOOD to EAT and stuff like that.
Old 10th March 2017
  #35
I still think it can be done, with a bit of 'paradigm stretching' ... I've seen crazier things happening.
Old 10th March 2017
  #36
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Showcase's Avatar
 

I hope it could be done

1) Not all studios are located around big cities, around here there are a few string players that is "good enough" but most of the time strictly to score

2) If we knew there was such service, and you provide and gain reputation for delivering good stuff, it could be told for clients, jingle makers... etc that the possibility for a real string section can be done for a fee

3) speaking for myself and out of experience, the best strings we`ve recorded have been when the players came up with their own harmonics etc, so that would be a plus

...but lots of if`s hehe, totally understand if its alot of work for peanuts

Maybe if you can set up some streaming, live monitoring of a scheduled recording session with chat possiblilities it might be easier? Just an idea
Old 11th March 2017
  #37
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post
I still think it can be done, with a bit of 'paradigm stretching' ... I've seen crazier things happening.
Basically this is what my partner and I do. We make "tracks" for people. Our main clients have generally been film companies, ad agencies, production companies, labels, Broadway shows etc. In other words, people with money with a NEED. It is incredibly competitive - as I said earlier, it is a buyers market. Big-time clients can -and do- lowball at every opportunity, and in the end, you know someone took that job at a loss hoping it would lead to 'more'. More losses!

We are constantly trying to streamline our process to get our costs down, and open it up to, for example, singer-songwriters who need a 'band'. "Stretching"! Unfortunately, these tend to be people without money with a WANT If you think the corporate clients are stingy! And there is only so much you can do by 'working smarter'. Plus, Artists are even worse than Suits when it comes to 'add ons' and 're-dos' and all the other stuff that comes with the expectation of custom work. The client 'attending' either in person or via videoconferencing is My Nightmare! - Exactly the kind of thing that works against the "streamlining" of the process. IMHO, there is much less wiggle room for a profit here than some may think.

And yet, running the numbers and understanding how to do the work is the easy part. Finding the customers is where it's at. Face it, the people who are good at that part are ones who will succeed. Not the best musicians, or the nicest studio. Or even the leanest operation.

Really the paradigm is Contracting. I think you could advertise this kind of service without assembling your team and without owning a studio, and just wait for a client... and as soon as you had the money, with a minimum of scrambling, you could assemble whatever band and book whatever studio. Because all the musicians and all the studios are hungry.

My guess is that some smart guy who creates a viable "middleman" app - ala Uber - will be the person making all the money. Just like Uber drivers, the studios and musicians will be screwing themselves over for a piece of an ever-shrinking pie.
Old 11th March 2017
  #38
Trust me, I know how the show is run..... and it made me turn my back to this 'venture'

I have no ambition for a career or a succes or recognition or whatever, I just want to make beautifull things, and I'm not alone... and beautifull things will be made.
And I don't care if there is a need for these things, there is a need in me that wants to see these things come to life, and that's enough for me.

I understand commerce, I'm simply not willing to play that game.

Old 11th March 2017
  #39
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Showcase's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmik Prod. View Post
Trust me, I know how the show is run..... and it made me turn my back to this 'venture'

I have no ambition for a career or a succes or recognition or whatever, I just want to make beautifull things, and I'm not alone... and beautifull things will be made.
And I don't care if there is a need for these things, there is a need in me that wants to see these things come to life, and that's enough for me.

I understand commerce, I'm simply not willing to play that game.

This all day
Old 11th March 2017
  #40
Gear Addict
 
trustyjim's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
Well, I think that maybe lot of studios have the equipment but it is expensive to record on it. Also, if you are in LA or in NY maybe finding those studios isn't a problem, but I guess you can't find Studers c37, J37, Telefunkens... on every step and in great working condition. On the other hand I had to make lot of contacts finding the right people for my projects (and Croatia has great many clasical players), so I imagine how much effort one person has to put to find good studio, right musicians and with the questionable result. This way I would offer the recording and you don't have to pay it until you are sattisfied. And you don't have to move from your house
I know this is not for everybody but in the world of ebay, door to door delivery etc. maybe someone would like to work that way. And as somebody mentioned in earlier posts, If few sessions can be merged in one day session, the price would be more than reasonable... I'm just trying to see If I can use my studio other than just recording bands that come on site
I think the idea is good until you start to look at the financial aspects. The service that you plan to offer already exists at major studios but is expensive. So you want to distinguish your service by taking the budget-conscious route and offering a cheaper option. However it might be impossible to make it cheap enough to be relevant because you have to pay musicians, rent, gear maintenance, etc. You will therefore be stuck in the middle offering a mid-priced solution for which there might not be a market. I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying realistically this is the way I see it. You never know until you try though.
Old 11th March 2017
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by igormink View Post
Hello,
I didn't know where to put the question, so if it is in the wrong place, I'm sorry.
I have a recording studio in Croatia. The recording room is big (and high). The acoustic is great (professionally treated). Also we are equiped with new and vintage gear (Studer desk, tape machines, plate reverbs, vintage high end mics..).
I also have acces to all kind of professional musicians - from drummers, guitar and bass guitar players to classical instruments (strings, french horns, tubas, you name it). They can play written music or they can make arrangements.
The question is - do you guys think that someone would be interesting in arrangements and recordings of those instruments for whatever needs? For example, you are working on a pop song and need strings or brass - you can send me a demo or tracks, I can record whatever instrument or ensamble and return those tracks via email. I can also record them on tape, put them through EMT 140 plate, record drums on tape...
Obviously I need to make some good examples of sound, but that is a huge amount of work. Prior to that, do you guys think that service like this could be interesting to somenone?
Thanks
I would consider the string and/or horn section part, but would definitely need examples recorded there first. As recordings are made, I would put together short demo snippets of everything you've recorded (with approval), and offer easy access to the files. Maybe also mention that these recordings are tailor made per artist, and that you would work with potential clients to make it work for them.
Old 11th March 2017
  #42
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Igormink, do not abandon your idea. The Eastern Europe countries have excellent interpreters of classical music and, undoubtedly, can give an outstanding service at very competitive prices. I do not think that the market for classical music instruments is very broad, but the use of strings in pop music is undeniable.

As already mentioned in this thread, some good samples of what you can do, would be essential. In fact, and in my opinion, you should have already uploaded some samples, because without them we are participating blindly.

I do not believe that creating a website is a very costly investment compared to your studio.

On the other side, I do not understand the reason of using the email for transferring files as you’ve mentioned. Maybe I’ve misunderstood your comment. It’s not a good idea. There are countless cloud storage services for data transfer at very economical prices.

Maybe you should also reflect on your idea of not charging customers until they are satisfied. I have the feeling that after two or three disappointments, you would reconsider the suitability of your collection system.

By the way, I’m a potential customer of yours .
Old 12th March 2017
  #43
Lives for gear
 

I don't like to hamper anyones creative ideas, but the reality of this working out long term are,IMO, slim. Not one of my clients, composing friends or professional musicians would go for this for the following reasons.

1. clients want to be there at the recording to direct the players correctly
2. professional players are £120 each - and that goes higher depending on the player.
3.this is business, and business is about relationships - hard to develop without meeting/socialising with the person you're working with.


Finally there is something about it that screams about the whole "dumbing"down / lowering in quality of the industry as a whole - personally that is not something I aspire to be a part of or believe in, so even if you were cheaper with close enough results to what I would want achieved, I would not use the service on principle. I like to keep the money flowing to hard working professionals that are in my local economy - so they can STAY in my local economy.

Rant over, and I do wish you luck if you go ahead with this endeavour.
Old 12th March 2017
  #44
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To be vague (and not to support your idea directly) but...
#1 ) clients often don't care; in fact a lot of times (most clients won't attend a recording session) and
#2 ) the LSO players are 100 pounds (the best); if I hire for an English project I get a discount due to other breaks (so, yes, lower)

Also, I don't look at lower prices as less quality; evidence and track record will show itself.
Old 13th March 2017
  #45
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesewhiteman View Post
I think it could work in this case. Even a whole 4 minute song should be doable. I think in most cases the midi will be fairly simple. If the players are decent all they should need is to hear it once and maybe see a chord sheet, do a couple takes of a simple part should be great provided the room is decent. Maybe even do another take with some embellishments and knock out 2-3 songs per hour. I'd be thrilled to have that.

Just set a rate for yourself and for musicians and see what happens. Like I said before if you can fill up a full day session for strings one day... it could be worth it for everyone and if you're looking for work to fill out your schedule it'd beat staring at your amazing gear in your amazing room, not having work.

I know I'd try out your service for drums and strings, and if it was good you'd have continued work through me.
I had some meetings during this weekend and I will sort out the conditions and prices I guess until the end of this week. Thank you for nice words of support and If you would like to know some details about equipment, workflow or maybe get some pictures and sounds, please let me know
Old 13th March 2017
  #46
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
I would consider the string and/or horn section part, but would definitely need examples recorded there first. As recordings are made, I would put together short demo snippets of everything you've recorded (with approval), and offer easy access to the files. Maybe also mention that these recordings are tailor made per artist, and that you would work with potential clients to make it work for them.
I'll start recording examples as soon as I sort out the musician prices (forming my studio price is simple). I'm planning to record for example solo trumpet, solo trombone and solo sax, and then a whole combo. I will put all tracks on line (they will be free for download), so potential clients could try to mix - 3 tracks (each track for each instrument, stereo mic and a room mic). I'm also going to shoot a short movie so maybe it will look nice
Old 13th March 2017
  #47
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani View Post
Igormink, do not abandon your idea. The Eastern Europe countries have excellent interpreters of classical music and, undoubtedly, can give an outstanding service at very competitive prices. I do not think that the market for classical music instruments is very broad, but the use of strings in pop music is undeniable.

As already mentioned in this thread, some good samples of what you can do, would be essential. In fact, and in my opinion, you should have already uploaded some samples, because without them we are participating blindly.

I do not believe that creating a website is a very costly investment compared to your studio.

On the other side, I do not understand the reason of using the email for transferring files as you’ve mentioned. Maybe I’ve misunderstood your comment. It’s not a good idea. There are countless cloud storage services for data transfer at very economical prices.

Maybe you should also reflect on your idea of not charging customers until they are satisfied. I have the feeling that after two or three disappointments, you would reconsider the suitability of your collection system.

By the way, I’m a potential customer of yours .
My point exactly, we have really nice musicians here and I think we could make good service for affordable price (still researching). I'm in a process of making a web site and I'll put some examples on it, but I can also send you some examples if you woul like to hear them. Regarding the transferring of files, I just said email, it could of course be done as you suggested or by any other way of communication. Thanks for support and if you have any questions about some details, please let me know.

P.S. I'm also thinkning of Skype so the client could be "there" with us if he wants and I'm planning also to record movie clips for the client's archive.
Old 13th March 2017
  #48
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Skype is not a good choice. The compression is very audible (though ok for control room communication). You should look at source connect. They have a html broadcast version now that makes the client-side easy (just log into a website.) Prior to source connect, quicktime streaming was a good choice though it took a bit more setup (and knowledge on both sides; not really an issue as I used to work with great studios on the other end but at your budgets, your clients may not be able.) Simple is better.
Old 13th March 2017
  #49
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SteelyDani's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMac View Post
... I would not use the service on principle. I like to keep the money flowing to hard working professionals that are in my local economy - so they can STAY in my local economy.
This is a good principle but I wonder what would happen if everybody would follow it with every merchandise and service (audio gear, software, cars, phones, clothes, technologie, etc ). The world would be radically different and not necessarily better.

I’ve hired a lot of online recordings: vocals (EEUU, New Zealand, France, UK), drums (EEUU), guitars (France, New Zealand), guitar bass (New Zealand), Horns (EEUU), mastering (UK, Abbey Road to be precise). I’m extremely satisfied with my experiences, may be because I provide plenty of written instructions, samples and scores to the musicians and I use to have phone calls with them for extra comments after each session.

Obviously, nothing compares with the experience of recording all together in the same studio, but sometimes this is simply not possible.
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