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Fader for AML ez1073 (Neve flavoured CAPI missing link?) 500 Series Dynamics
Old 31st December 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Fader for AML ez1073 (Neve flavoured CAPI missing link?)

Happy new year, Slutz.

Can anyone offer insight or thoughts on a fader option to put after an AML ez1073?

Appreciating that one doesn't NEED to do this, in my mind I would think there's a sonic benefit, similar to the CAPI stuff (ie. better simulating a console, getting the gain stages etc.)

Forgive me if this question is ignorant to the console design of Neve stuff (compared to API).

I could obviously use a CAPI missing link; but wonder if there's a Neve equivalent out there?

Cheers!
Old 31st December 2016
  #2
Maybe ask Colin [who is AML] if he has anything up his sleeve? Posts here as slender chap. Nice and knowledgeable.

To do it 'right' you would need [at least] a fader, a class A fader amp, and proper transformer...
Old 31st December 2016
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Cheers Jonathan -- greatly appreciate it.

Hopefully Colin will chime in.

Architecturally - are the faders "just" 1272's?
Old 2nd January 2017
  #4
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0b0 View Post
Happy new year, Slutz.

Can anyone offer insight or thoughts on a fader option to put after an AML ez1073?

Appreciating that one doesn't NEED to do this, in my mind I would think there's a sonic benefit, similar to the CAPI stuff (ie. better simulating a console, getting the gain stages etc.)

Forgive me if this question is ignorant to the console design of Neve stuff (compared to API).

I could obviously use a CAPI missing link; but wonder if there's a Neve equivalent out there?

Cheers!
If you have not purchased an ez1073 yet then get the rack version which has the fader/trim as part of the build.

I have a pair of the 500 series and use the CAPI Missing Link after the ez1073 sometimes but Colin has explained in another thread that the proper way to maximize the intended added benefit is to install a 10k fader to the PCB or order it that way.

From another thread:

"Fundamentally, while it is 'possible' to mod the circuit board after the fact he really wouldn't recommend it as the risk of damaging the circuit board is extremely high. Put at its simplest he doesn't recommend anyone trying mods themselves and, as he doesn't want it coming back to bite him when people end up with damaged boards, has been advised it is safer not to publish details of the mod which would be required.

So fundamentally, if anyone wants AML 1073s with faders it's a factory order with a new unit."

Although the ez1073 500 is just beautiful by itself I still wish I had gotten the rack version just to have the ability to squeeze it a bit when desired.

If anyone reading this wants to trade 500 version for their rack version send me a PM.

Old 2nd January 2017
  #5
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Neumann active faders (w444?) are great for everything line level related
Old 2nd January 2017
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
If you have not purchased an ez1073 yet then get the rack version which has the fader/trim as part of the build.

I have a pair of the 500 series and use the CAPI Missing Link after the ez1073 sometimes but Colin has explained in another thread that the proper way to maximize the intended added benefit is to install a 10k fader to the PCB or order it that way.

From another thread:

"Fundamentally, while it is 'possible' to mod the circuit board after the fact he really wouldn't recommend it as the risk of damaging the circuit board is extremely high. Put at its simplest he doesn't recommend anyone trying mods themselves and, as he doesn't want it coming back to bite him when people end up with damaged boards, has been advised it is safer not to publish details of the mod which would be required.

So fundamentally, if anyone wants AML 1073s with faders it's a factory order with a new unit."

Although the ez1073 500 is just beautiful by itself I still wish I had gotten the rack version just to have the ability to squeeze it a bit when desired.

If anyone reading this wants to trade 500 version for their rack version send me a PM.

Thanks for this!

I have 2 of the 500 series already, and hence why I've been thinking of this.

I agree; they're great on their own, and I've been able to manage the gain staging just fine. However, I have wondered about squeezing things more, and really maximizing the available tone.

Do you ALWAYS use the missing link whenever you use the 1073? Or sometimes go without?

It all does make me wonder how an AML ez1073 compares to a racked 1073 module with an output stage.
Old 2nd January 2017
  #7
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I would run it into a compressor bypassing compression and adjust the gain.
Old 2nd January 2017
  #8
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Lipps's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yummerz View Post
I would run it into a compressor bypassing compression and adjust the gain.
I agree. I sometimes run a great river with trim all the way down into another great river (w/line z pad) with the same input cranked and trim down, then use a comp gain to adjust
Old 4th January 2017
  #9
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0b0 View Post
Thanks for this!

I have 2 of the 500 series already, and hence why I've been thinking of this.

I agree; they're great on their own, and I've been able to manage the gain staging just fine. However, I have wondered about squeezing things more, and really maximizing the available tone.

Do you ALWAYS use the missing link whenever you use the 1073? Or sometimes go without?

It all does make me wonder how an AML ez1073 compares to a racked 1073 module with an output stage.
I don't always use the Missing Link, no. I go without quite a bit actually , especially since I found out that the optimal way to squeeze the pre is earlier in the build of the PCB.

Just to be clear, AML makes a rack version of their ez1073 that has the trim knob feature as part of the build. If I was aware I would have gotten that version from AML to begin with.

I use my ez1073 pair on my mixbus and sometimes squeeze it a bit and then back it off with the Missing Link.

Old 4th January 2017
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks all for the comments.

I feel compelled to update this thread, as in addition to the comments here, I have some better personal clarity around the issues I'm asking about. I was able to gleam some more info from (surprise, surprise) pouring through some other threads here on GS!

1. What I've been asking about here is fundamentally flawed, as it's not just about putting a fader after the ez1073 to get a more console like tone. That's clearly not the architecture for how 80 series consoles work.

2. The ideal "insert" point for a fader (in order to come closer to the pre behaving like a console) is before the final gainstage / transformer. This is a mod that is apparently possible on the 500 series AML ez1073 (as Trev has it in his custom API board), but is not published or officially supported by AML (due to understandable concerns about effing up the PCB on the ez1073).

3. Because of the need to "insert" the fader, I suspect that's why there's no pure "Neve" equivalent to the Missing Link out on the market, as Neve clone pre's either already have one, or would require modification.

With all that said, it's clear that a number of folks are enjoying the CAPI Missing Link AFTER the pre to get a bit of extra control as desired. This seems quite popular.

Where this leaves me is that I'm still interested in seeing what's possible here. I may have my mad-scientist tech try and reverse engineer the AML 500 series to some how put an insert point in, and then create a new 500 series fader. Serious overkill (and likely cheaper for me to just get the 19" rack version and mod it), but now my curiousity is peaked!

That being said, I'll get a pair of Missing Link's with Red Dot's for good measure.

Cheers to all who replied ... and hopefully by me repeating some of this information, it will be easier for anyone else on the hunt to get clarity.

Old 5th January 2017
  #11
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0b0 View Post
Where this leaves me is that I'm still interested in seeing what's possible here. I may have my mad-scientist tech try and reverse engineer the AML 500 series to some how put an insert point in, and then create a new 500 series fader. Serious overkill (and likely cheaper for me to just get the 19" rack version and mod it), but now my curiousity is peaked!

That being said, I'll get a pair of Missing Link's with Red Dot's for good measure.

Cheers to all who replied ... and hopefully by me repeating some of this information, it will be easier for anyone else on the hunt to get clarity.

This is direct from Colin at AML:

The correct procedure would be as follows (for a rev5 PCB):

"Modification for external gain control of 1073-500

Remove R48

Lift pin 3 of PL 10 out of the PCB
[PL 10 is on the output amplifier PCB, pin 1 is closest to the 470uF caps]

Add 3 wires;

Yellow to the lifted pin of PL10
Red to the empty hole of R48 nearest to the edge connector
Black to the empty hole of R48 nearest to the 470uF caps

Add 5k log fader wired as per P&G standard"

If you intend to go any distance.... use screened wires.

This is a modification which would only be suitable for someone who does this type of work on a daily basis.... you could easily damage the PCB.

Adding attenuation after the output is an entirely different thing and will not really have the desired effect..... usually done because the converters being fed are incapable of accepting a professional +24dBu level..... to which I would say.... "buy some proper converters"



I am not sure about other PCB builds. Good luck!

Old 6th January 2017
  #12
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DeadPoet's Avatar
Cool reply!


I've just modded my SeventhCircleAudio A12 preamps to have an output fader: all it took was a T-pad attenuator (like CAPI and Hairball sell). The quick'n dirty way would be to hook it up after the XLR out but there could be a "neater" way of implementing it in the circuit.



Herwig
Old 11th April 2017
  #13
i am having the opposite problem – i would need a fader BEFORE the aml ez1073 ...

recorded electric guitar yesterday and miced a very small 5w fender champ amp, which is not very loud, but i had to set the aml ez1073 (19" unit) gain volume and trim gain poti at minimum. to "add" some preamp color i had to set the pad option on my audio-interface and that's why i was able to add 20 db with the aml volume – strange, innit?
i can't imagine recording a loud instrument like snare with the ez1073 ... it would clip i guess.
Old 14th November 2017
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
This is direct from Colin at AML:

The correct procedure would be as follows (for a rev5 PCB):

"Modification for external gain control of 1073-500

Remove R48

Lift pin 3 of PL 10 out of the PCB
[PL 10 is on the output amplifier PCB, pin 1 is closest to the 470uF caps]

Add 3 wires;

Yellow to the lifted pin of PL10
Red to the empty hole of R48 nearest to the edge connector
Black to the empty hole of R48 nearest to the 470uF caps

Add 5k log fader wired as per P&G standard"

If you intend to go any distance.... use screened wires.

This is a modification which would only be suitable for someone who does this type of work on a daily basis.... you could easily damage the PCB.

Adding attenuation after the output is an entirely different thing and will not really have the desired effect..... usually done because the converters being fed are incapable of accepting a professional +24dBu level..... to which I would say.... "buy some proper converters"



I am not sure about other PCB builds. Good luck!

How this modification looks? Is it an output knob or 10k fader as someone mentioned a fader? Is there a space on aml ez 1073 500 to make this modification? Some photos would be fine to see what's all about because I never saw AML ez 1073 500 with something like that but if it's possible to do it that could be a game changer.. Output knob would be very much useful on ez 1073 500 as it seams to me. Thanks
Old 14th November 2017
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin View Post
i am having the opposite problem – i would need a fader BEFORE the aml ez1073 ...

recorded electric guitar yesterday and miced a very small 5w fender champ amp, which is not very loud, but i had to set the aml ez1073 (19" unit) gain volume and trim gain poti at minimum. to "add" some preamp color i had to set the pad option on my audio-interface and that's why i was able to add 20 db with the aml volume – strange, innit?
i can't imagine recording a loud instrument like snare with the ez1073 ... it would clip i guess.
I guess that's why Bae 1073 (no matter if it's 500 series or rack versions) and majority of others manufacturers have output knob besides gain knob. I also needed to lover down the gain knob when I was recording with some other compressors in chain. I was able to crank the gain knob when I was using only EZ 1073 on half and more and it was ok but for example with IGS One La 500 in chain I needed to lower gain on EZ a lot and besides that I needed to keep a gain knob on IGS OneLa also almost at the bottom.. I was still able to get a nice sound but if there is output knob I guess I could squeeze more out of transformers from EZ and balance with tone color between gain and output knob on it etc. Some say that it has also a lot with headroom on recorded tracks and it has a logic to me.. I guess that output knob like one on BAE 1073 is actually like a fader on a Neve console if I get it right ?
Old 16th November 2017
  #16
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Gie-Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin View Post
i am having the opposite problem – i would need a fader BEFORE the aml ez1073 ...

recorded electric guitar yesterday and miced a very small 5w fender champ amp, which is not very loud, but i had to set the aml ez1073 (19" unit) gain volume and trim gain poti at minimum. to "add" some preamp color i had to set the pad option on my audio-interface and that's why i was able to add 20 db with the aml volume – strange, innit?
i can't imagine recording a loud instrument like snare with the ez1073 ... it would clip i guess.
Sounds like you are using a preamp input on your interface, instead of a line input.
Old 16th November 2017
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gie-Sound View Post
Sounds like you are using a preamp input on your interface, instead of a line input.
i am using input number 3 on my rme fireface 400. that's a line in with a pad option. here's the setting panel: https://goo.gl/images/rqhZj4
Old 16th November 2017
  #18
Noa
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I use the ez1073 with a Missing Link for a fader. It sounds amazing to me.
Old 17th November 2017
  #19
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa View Post
I use the ez1073 with a Missing Link for a fader. It sounds amazing to me.
Me too but the manufacturer recommends installing the fader in line directly to the board for the optimum intended effect.

Unfortunately it can only be done on certain versions of the PCB. There is a thread somewhere about this mod.

Anyone with rack versions (pair) of ez1073 wanting to trade for the 500 version please PM me.


Old 17th November 2017
  #20
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
Me too but the manufacturer recommends installing the fader in line directly to the board for the optimum intended effect.

Unfortunately it can only be done on certain versions of the PCB. There is a thread somewhere about this mod.

Anyone with rack versions (pair) of ez1073 wanting to trade for the 500 version please PM me.


There's also this

Audio Maintenance Limited AML-17-038 - ez1073pre Full Kit - (500 series Class A mic pre)
Attached Thumbnails
Fader for AML ez1073 (Neve flavoured CAPI missing link?)-ez1073pre-composite_600.jpg  
Old 17th November 2017
  #21
Noa
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Noa's Avatar
Quote:
Could someone explain the "trim" pot of this new preamp? Does this act as an output fader?
Old 18th November 2017
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa View Post
Could someone explain the "trim" pot of this new preamp? Does this act as an output fader?
i guess it is.
Old 18th November 2017
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa View Post
Could someone explain the "trim" pot of this new preamp? Does this act as an output fader?
I'll let you know in a couple of days
Old 18th November 2017
  #24
Noa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
I'll let you know in a couple of days
Awesome...I bought one two days ago but I decided to get someone to build it for me to save some coin, so it won't be here for a while.

Interested to hear your feedback.
Old 21st November 2017
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa View Post
Awesome...I bought one two days ago but I decided to get someone to build it for me to save some coin, so it won't be here for a while.

Interested to hear your feedback.
The trimpot is the output level/fader. I need to run them through some paces before I can comment on them. So far so good though.
Old 21st November 2017
  #26
Here for the gear
 

I just picked up the 19" rack aml 1073. It definitely has the goods and has the trim knob. However, on both of my units, the trim only cuts a few db. It won't cut signal or go real quiet. Is this normal for the 19" rack trim knob?
Old 21st November 2017
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellyfishstu View Post
I just picked up the 19" rack aml 1073. It definitely has the goods and has the trim knob. However, on both of my units, the trim only cuts a few db. It won't cut signal or go real quiet. Is this normal for the 19" rack trim knob?
yeah, seems normal. mine behaves the same. it's not an output fader, it's more a smaller gain knob for finetuning.
Old 21st November 2017
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin View Post
yeah, seems normal. mine behaves the same. it's not an output fader, it's more a smaller gain knob for finetuning.
@ zinzin That's what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation. I've mostly used the BAE 1073 with the full on output faders. The AMLs definitely hold up against the BAE.
Old 21st November 2017
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellyfishstu View Post
@ zinzin That's what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation. I've mostly used the BAE 1073 with the full on output faders. The AMLs definitely hold up against the BAE.
yeah a very fine unit. compared it to a heritage 73
and it's right there. the eq works very musical, with very broad strokes. i once checked the eq with a sine tone and a frequency analyzer and was surprised at the broad curves. but works great when you want to "massage" a sound into shape.
Old 21st November 2017
  #30
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Bereich03 Audio has a product called "LC Pad".
This might be the most affordable solution for anyone that already has a 500 series rack.
I'm kind of biased, as i was involved in the process of creating this product,... anyway, check it out:

LC-PAD 500-Series bereich03-Audio

it's not on his website anymore, but i'm sure he'll be happy to take custom orders.
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