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QES Labs PAD-2 vs Burl B2 Bomber Stereo ADC shootout vid Digital Converters
Old 11th March 2017
  #121
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Got the Mytek Brooklyn in for evaluation.
really nice box for 2k.
imo Pad sounds more natural 3d.wider.more detailed mid's.
the Brooklyn has a little added hi's and lows.very very subtle little smiley face.
thinking maybe the flagship Manhattan would be a better match for the PAd2.
Also because of the price difference I guess..

Is your PAD2 the full blown version? 3,8k?
If the Brooklyn is 90% there is a great product..

They will probably sounds different anyway, and I guess that the differences are rather subtle..no?
Are you testing it at 96/24 right?

please let us know your thoughts on the Mytek compared to the PAD after you continues your tests

Thanks for taking the time!



Cheu
Old 11th March 2017
  #122
Gear Nut
 
Jeb A's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
imo Pad sounds more natural 3d.wider.more detailed mid's.
the Brooklyn has a little added hi's and lows.very very subtle little smiley face.
thinking maybe the flagship Manhattan would be a better match for the PAd2.
Don't get me wrong. I think I've never heard a female voice sound so open and natural as in the Pad's low group delay setting.
It's exactly what impressed me. A real high end unit.
Old 11th March 2017
  #123
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Also because of the price difference I guess..

Is your PAD2 the full blown version? 3,8k?
If the Brooklyn is 90% there is a great product..

They will probably sounds different anyway, and I guess that the differences are rather subtle..no?
Are you testing it at 96/24 right?

please let us know your thoughts on the Mytek compared to the PAD after you continues your tests

Thanks for taking the time!



Cheu
Yes 96/24
Full blown version .
Ive been discussing my findings re: the Brooklyn with mastering engineer Brian Lucy.
I agree with his assessment..seems a bit non linear.kinda punchy a little more sparkle/ear candy.
The Pad smoother maybe a little more true natural to the original source.
I could see the attraction to the Mytek
Under 2k.full metering,USB interfacing and software control.
Various sonic options in a small visually pleasing well implemented package.
Old 11th March 2017
  #124
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Got the Mytek Brooklyn in for evaluation.
really nice box for 2k.
imo Pad sounds more natural 3d.wider.more detailed mid's.
the Brooklyn has a little added hi's and lows.very very subtle little smiley face.
thinking maybe the flagship Manhattan would be a better match for the PAd2.
From memory, how do you feel the Brooklyn compares to the Pure2?

And Brooklyn to Burl?

I've got the Brooklyn ADC on order, so am curious as I had cancelled a Pure2 order. It was taking too long and I got annoyed
Old 11th March 2017
  #125
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
From memory, how do you feel the Brooklyn compares to the Pure2?

And Brooklyn to Burl?

I've got the Brooklyn ADC on order, so am curious as I had cancelled a Pure2 order. It was taking too long and I got annoyed
From my memory of having the pure2,IME typical with Antelope products, the Pure had a kind of added sheen and width but lacked the balls and punch of the b2 I compared it too.
It did not give me an accurate representation of what I was hearing straight off the console.
So from memory I would likely choose the Mytek over the pure2.
Compared to the Burl it's more detailed transparent.
IMO The burl has a specific sound.
the thickness and a little sheen from those nickel input transformers.
It still has less air and openness than the Mytek.
Old 11th March 2017
  #126
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
From my memory of having the pure2,IME typical with Antelope products, the Pure had a kind of added sheen and width but lacked the balls and punch of the b2 I compared it too.
It did not give me an accurate representation of what I was hearing straight off the console.
So from memory I would likely choose the Mytek over the pure2.
Compared to the Burl it's more detailed transparent.
IMO The burl has a specific sound.
the thickness and a little sheen from those nickel input transformers.
It still has less air and openness than the Mytek.
Cool, thanks for the info! Sounds like I should be pretty happy with the Mytek.
Old 11th March 2017
  #127
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
Cool, thanks for the info! Sounds like I should be pretty happy with the Mytek.
I'd imagine you would be.
imo one of the better AD's in the 2k range.
Old 11th March 2017
  #128
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

I love splitting hairs.. Make it worthwhile hanging here and getting an industrial dose of GAS! 😜
Old 12th March 2017
  #129
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deuc647's Avatar
 

I wanna be Roundbadge when i grow up.
Old 12th March 2017
  #130
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I wanna be Roundbadge when i grow up.
LOL
Old 12th March 2017
  #131
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I wanna be Roundbadge when i grow up.
Be me..
Be poor!
Old 13th March 2017
  #132
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I never got around to hearing the BLA MC 3 xb super duper mega fly uber modded version.
The guy I sold mine to did the upgrade
I shipped it directly to BLA.
I got hold of a Prism Titan with the PT card and hooked up the BLA MC 3. It got so deep, solid and wide I think I'm done in this department for a while.
Less than 3k and it is the best I've heard in my own room yet plus it's multichannel, gonna be ace for stem mixing/mastering and stuff.

I was a bit sceptical about the new Prosumer Prisms after owning an ADA8 for years but this is real nice too.

Funny how our tastes change back and forth.... FWIW the clocked Avid 16 HD io boxes aren't that far behind either.

I won't be sending mine back to get that super duper fly upgrade neither.
Nor waiting for Grimm.....
Old 14th March 2017
  #133
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Lucin Niega's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
The PAD2 vs Brooklyn continues this weekend.
How'd the comparison go?
Old 14th March 2017
  #134
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucin Niega View Post
How'd the comparison go?
Mytek:has a little bitty "excitement" hi/li bump. Good detail.
It sounded smoother more natural with the external Grimm clock.
Not sure I was digging how cymbals are portrayed but I can see a lot of people liking this unit for overall sound and functionality.
Supposedly it sounds better with a bigger external psu. Kinda weird to me.
why not just make it right in the first place?.
QES:more natural closer to original source. no hype .
Basic no frills control/interface but battle tank like heavy duty construction.
Doesn't store my chosen 96k sample rate when powered off.
Defaults to 44.1 every power up.(seems a bit primative to reset every time but I can live with it)
I really want to hear it clocked externally with the Grimm.Val is designing a standard Ext WC low freq interface.tbd.
Old 14th March 2017
  #135
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
.
Supposedly it sounds better with a bigger external psu. Kinda weird to me.
why not just make it right in the first place?.
That doesnt´t surprise me that a external power supply improves the sound. It keeps possible interferences with influence to the clocking outside the box.
Bigger is not always better but more stable is better and more stable PSUs are often bigger. a more stable PSU improves also the stability of the clocking.


Quote:
Defaults to 44.1 every power up.(seems a bit primative to reset every time but I can live with it)
Yes, not a big deal but also not really convenient.
The Acousence with the same chips and also with a passive input stage has a mechanical solution for switching the sample rate - and so it "holds" the last setting. ;-)
There is no microprocessor involved for that also to avoid additional interference inside.
Old 14th March 2017
  #136
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OhioGreg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
That doesnt´t surprise me that a external power supply improves the sound. It keeps possible interferences with influence to the clocking outside the box.
Bigger is not always better but more stable is better and more stable PSUs are often bigger. a more stable PSU improves also the stability of the clocking.
The QES has 3 separate toroidal core transformers, for analog, digital and logic circuits, 9 independent regulators,
so each stage is conveniently powered at it's best.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
Yes, not a big deal but also not really convenient.
The Acousence with the same chips and also with a passive input stage has a mechanical solution for switching the sample rate - and so it "holds" the last setting. ;-)
There is no microprocessor involved for that also to avoid additional interference inside.
There's no interference to speak of in a well-thought 4-layer board, as in the PAD-2, especially RF Teflon (I don't think the Acousense
or the Mytek have these features -Teflon, not 4-layer-, not even considering the Cardas XLR connectors, which last a lifetime), where the HF paths are all controlled.
The Fs memory, even though not a big deal, can be made to default @ 96k when you order it.
The microcontroller takes care of all the IC's configuration, all inside the PCB, in a RF controlled environment.
Making configuration passive doesn't make improvements by default, the additional wiring from the mechanical device on the front panel to the PCB can easily act as an antenna, potentially exposing the configuring ic pins to RF interference.
Old 14th March 2017
  #137
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Tanio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
The Acousence with the same chips and also with a passive input stage has a mechanical solution for switching the sample rate - and so it "holds" the last setting. ;-)
There is no microprocessor involved for that also to avoid additional interference inside.
Old 14th March 2017
  #138
Gear Nut
 
Jeb A's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanio View Post
LLLOOOOOLLLLLL
Old 14th March 2017
  #139
Gear Nut
 

I just read about those new Implementations of the PCM4222 Chip. I think it is interesting it took so long for commercial units to use the passive transformer approach. I got that evaluation board years ago and thought about the best fronted for it. Just for the fun of it I tried a 4:1 oversized pikatron tranny I had lying around and it worked flawlessly and sounded great from the beginning.
If you think of it, a transformer has a lot of advantages about any other solution. The pcm4222 has a ca. 2V offset at the input, either you use capacitors or a transformer to block it so you do not have to rely on the preceding equipment to deal with it. (Which is a no go in my opinion, but Universal Audio did it)
You need a pad for line level signals, a resistive pad has a high output impedance, so it needs an amp stage afterwards to present a low impedance to the converter chip. A transformer does both, pads the signal and presents a low impedance.
Last but not least, the chip likes to see a balanced signal, the transformer takes care of this in an elegant way.
No wonder those units sound good...No capacitors, no active electronics...
Old 17th March 2017
  #140
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Plush's Avatar
Very Italian.

Maybe it will go on strike??
Old 17th March 2017
  #141
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Mytek:has a little bitty "excitement" hi/li bump. Good detail.
It sounded smoother more natural with the external Grimm clock.
Not sure I was digging how cymbals are portrayed but I can see a lot of people liking this unit for overall sound and functionality.
Supposedly it sounds better with a bigger external psu. Kinda weird to me.
why not just make it right in the first place?.
QES:more natural closer to original source. no hype .
Basic no frills control/interface but battle tank like heavy duty construction.
Doesn't store my chosen 96k sample rate when powered off.
Defaults to 44.1 every power up.(seems a bit primative to reset every time but I can live with it)
I really want to hear it clocked externally with the Grimm.Val is designing a standard Ext WC low freq interface.tbd.
Did you really let the Mytek burn in? Seriously night and day difference with those boxes, mores than any I've ever heard. I have the DAC and it went from very candy (overwhelmingly so) to quite smooth. Not subtle.
Old 17th March 2017
  #142
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Did you really let the Mytek burn in? Seriously night and day difference with those boxes, mores than any I've ever heard. I have the DAC and it went from very candy (overwhelmingly so) to quite smooth. Not subtle.
It's been on pretty much the whole week.
Old 17th March 2017
  #143
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanio View Post
Lol
Old 17th March 2017
  #144
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
wiring money to Italy is a pain.

Last edited by RoundBadge; 18th March 2017 at 07:33 AM..
Old 17th March 2017
  #145
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Damnit.wiring money to Italy is a pain.
My only day off yesterday,made the trip to the bank and I've got a swift code that doesn't work.
And the fees suck.
That stuff really gets my goat. The companies always say the codes are fine as well.
Old 17th March 2017
  #146
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Damnit.wiring money to Italy is a pain.
My only day off yesterday,made the trip to the bank and I've got a swift code that doesn't work.
And the fees suck.
It can even go worse. Do you already have to pay protective duty or is this fake news?
Old 18th March 2017
  #147
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e-are's Avatar
 

Great thread / read. Roundbadge is my hero

I've been thinking very hard about getting the burl. I currently have an apogee rosetta 200 which I do like but would love to have all the characteristics I'm hearing about the burl. I think I'm going to pull the trigger.
Really appreciate this thread.
Old 18th March 2017
  #148
Roundbadge must be responsible for so much GS cash getting spent. I know I've based many a decision on his recommendations.
Old 18th March 2017
  #149
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Roundbadge must be responsible for so much GS cash getting spent. I know I've based many a decision on his recommendations.
The cycles of life; you have that effect on myself. Lusting after the BLA MK3. And various pieces of hardware
Old 18th March 2017
  #150
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGreg View Post
There's no interference to speak of in a well-thought 4-layer board, as in the PAD-2, especially RF Teflon (I don't think the Acousense
or the Mytek have these features -Teflon, not 4-layer-, not even considering the Cardas XLR connectors, which last a lifetime), where the HF paths are all controlled.
The Fs memory, even though not a big deal, can be made to default @ 96k when you order it.
The microcontroller takes care of all the IC's configuration, all inside the PCB, in a RF controlled environment.
Making configuration passive doesn't make improvements by default, the additional wiring from the mechanical device on the front panel to the PCB can easily act as an antenna, potentially exposing the configuring ic pins to RF interference.
Sorry, I missed your post. I guess there are a lot of details in the PAD just done right. Otherwise it wouldn´t leed to the results reported here.

Same with the Acousence where the experience about dealing with HF interference and clocking build in the AFiS series is also used in the converters.
afis - monitoring matrix

I don´t know details from the board and could ask the developer. But you can see that many things are on focus to keep the unit clean from HF garbage, the housing or even the used XLR from the PSU to the converter is slelected for controlling HF paths. And also the transformers on inputs and outputs do their part with damping HF.

A intersting feature is the AES output on XLR plus also on RJ45 which is the better connection. XLR was never developed for high frequencies you have with the AES signal (same for the DA converter). You can see that connection here.
arfi-dac2 - da converter

Would like to hear the PAD-2 with probably well thought out details and I think it sounds great since it has a similar approach like the Acousence - also here with well thought out details.

Since I play the game with cards on the table I repeat that I do not only recording and mixing but also sell units from Acousence, EMM Labs, Forssell (to name the converters). So take what I wrote with a grain of salt.
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