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Mic Stand mass can affect sound?
Old 23rd December 2016
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnajar View Post
Have you sent a Hakan over to Klaus yet? I was telling him about it a few weeks and he hadn't heard of them. I bought mine from John Willet in the U.K. Before you started repping them here. I think it's terrific.
I have and as with the Pauly, he didn't like it. So I can't find the magic solution for him, but a lot of people find this a huge improvement over the pop filter they were using. I find both to be far less damaging to the mic audio than the metal or the $25 fabric type.

Brad
Old 23rd December 2016
  #32
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Are you talking about a 1/2" diameter stand vs a 1" diameter stand? Or are you talking that 1" diameter stand vs a 12" pedestal in a 48" cube of concrete in a cork lined pit?

In both cases it depends upon what you consider "good enough".
Old 23rd December 2016
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf View Post
Are you talking about a 1/2" diameter stand vs a 1" diameter stand? Or are you talking that 1" diameter stand vs a 12" pedestal in a 48" cube of concrete in a cork lined pit?

In both cases it depends upon what you consider "good enough".
Regardless of design, can you hear it? That is the question. Experiments by adding mass or taking it away can show you sonic artifacts you did not know where there. Like flicking a stand with your finger nail- does it ring? This the same thing that happens with speaker stands. Speakers on empty cases vs speakers on sound anchors are a major difference- almost to the point of calling it a different speaker.

Brad
Old 24th December 2016
  #34
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The difference in comparing mics to a speaker on a stand is that the speaker is not shock mounted (isolated from that stand) in the way a mic is. The speaker might be damped between the stand but it surely is not suspended by bungie / rubber. If your mic stand rings then damp it with foam / pipe insulation (less than $3). If you want to isolate the mic stand further from floor noise transmission put it on a cut to size rubber floor mat (less than $5). The mic shock mount performance is the critical link in this chain, not mass of the stand.

The trouble with the "mass is better" arguement is that it only works for marketing up to a point. Truely large mass items are extremely shipping cost prohibited thus in the case of speaker stands if wanting mass you are better off custom building via sand / concrete / heavy wall tube and thick plate steel / etc. Thus shippable products like Sound Anchors have little mass compared to the custom less expensive real mass solutions. The same could be said about custom mic stands as many heavy wall steel shapes are available that you could thread a mic shock mount to. Mass is a great thing in studios when used in proper ways like sound isolation of the studio itself. Sometimes though it's best to choose what audio compromises you really need to focus on.

The fun part about this stuff is that you can do your own experimentation and report back with results and methodology (any good experiment should be repeatable by others).
Old 24th December 2016
  #35
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
The mic cable can also couple low end into the mic...
Which is why I use short and flexible XLR tails from the mic to the main cable to decouple the mic. from the cable.
Old 24th December 2016
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
I hunted down (almost 18 years ago now) the best pop filter I could find in Germany and it was the Pauly. Dirk Brauner turned me on to it.
Håkan actually do a Pop Filter specially for the Brauner mics now - clips to the Brauner shockmount.
Old 24th December 2016
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Which is why I use short and flexible XLR tails from the mic to the main cable to decouple the mic. from the cable.
I don't know how that is really "decoupling"; XLR connectors are pretty robust.

Just leave plenty of slack on the mic cable near the mic. Also not decoupling but it'll reduce the effects.
Old 24th December 2016
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I don't know how that is really "decoupling"; XLR connectors are pretty robust.

Just leave plenty of slack on the mic cable near the mic. Also not decoupling but it'll reduce the effects.
Most mic. cables can be pretty stiff and inflexible and even slack, as you described, will not decouple properly.

However, by using a thin and flexible tail between the mic. and the main cable *does* effectively decouple the mic.

The cable *does* go through a cable clamp, of course, or tie the XLR join to the stand.
Old 28th September 2018
  #39
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rectape's Avatar
Anyone compared the Pauly vs Hakan vs Rycote USM?
Old 28th September 2018
  #40
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Drumsound's Avatar
Round base cast stand based seem to transmit more vibration from physical surroundings than tripod based stands. It can be really noticeable on stages with a few amps and "active" band members. Unfortunately, they have wider footprints that can sometimes get in the way...
Old 28th September 2018
  #41
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not only mic stands affect sound but also mic clips: i once had to redo an orchestra recording (!) when all mics were placed on clair's mic clamps: they are very useful for quick collection of mics on festivals but very bad if used on close to 100 condenser mics...
Old 28th September 2018
  #42
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kafka's Avatar
Old thread, but, yeah, I believe it. Why not? If the microphone housing has an effect, why not anything it's connected to? A shockmount is a low pass filter for motion in the stand. It also decreases the mass of the microphone system as a whole, so it should have some effect there. How much is subject to testing. But anyone who has worked with metal will tell you there is nothing in this universe that is perfectly rigid. So, yes, some. Shockmounts were certainly invented for a reason other than keeping the singer's lips off the mic.

There are some early Beatles pictures where they're singing into U47's on floor stands with no shockmount. Did someone once say this was for acoustic reasons? I don't have the research in front of me. Maybe someone else knows. Maybe I'm making that second part up. But the pictures are real.
Old 29th September 2018
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Unfortunately, they have wider footprints that can sometimes get in the way...
Really easy for people to hook a foot under. And you have to be very mindful of which way the feet are pointed and which direction is the tippy direction.

Semi-related, I borrowed one of those Shure "drum kits" in which the tom mics have SM57-type capsules embedded in little junior-size metal cannonballs. They come with clips for mounting directly on the tom rims, and they are easily the most microphonic little bastards I've ever encountered. Utterly useless. The kick mic is decent, though.
Old 29th September 2018
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Round base cast stand based seem to transmit more vibration from physical surroundings than tripod based stands.
This example shows that mass isn't the only variable that matters: compliance matters too. When coupling floor vibration upward though a tripod stand, flexture in the diagonally descending legs likely offers a bit of "shock absorption". In contrast, a vertical steel stand riser has essentially no compliance at stage-rumble frequencies. Still, whether or not leg compliance overcomes the lower overall mass probably depends on the vibrational frequency being coupled and the nature of the floor. I suspect if you put a folded packing blanket under a stand of each type, the heaver solid-base stand would prove quieter.
Old 29th September 2018
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Really easy for people to hook a foot under. And you have to be very mindful of which way the feet are pointed and which direction is the tippy direction.

Semi-related, I borrowed one of those Shure "drum kits" in which the tom mics have SM57-type capsules embedded in little junior-size metal cannonballs. They come with clips for mounting directly on the tom rims, and they are easily the most microphonic little bastards I've ever encountered. Utterly useless. The kick mic is decent, though.
Yeah, that design of clipping to the drum is often problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
This example shows that mass isn't the only variable that matters: compliance matters too. When coupling floor vibration upward though a tripod stand, flexture in the diagonally descending legs likely offers a bit of "shock absorption". In contrast, a vertical steel stand riser has essentially no compliance at stage-rumble frequencies. Still, whether or not leg compliance overcomes the lower overall mass probably depends on the vibrational frequency being coupled and the nature of the floor. I suspect if you put a folded packing blanket under a stand of each type, the heaver solid-base stand would prove quieter.
You're probably right on all of the points you miake.
Old 29th September 2018
  #46
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Yeah, that design of clipping to the drum is often problematic.
I should have mentioned that they're almost as microphonic on a plain ol' stand. Way, way more than a 57 or 58.
Old 29th September 2018
  #47
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I should have mentioned that they're almost as microphonic on a plain ol' stand. Way, way more than a 57 or 58.
That's disappointing.
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