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Best outboard reverb for small/medium room/hall emulation? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 14th September 2016
  #1
Best outboard reverb for small/medium room/hall emulation?

What's the best outboard reverb for small to medium room or hall emulation (excluding the Bricasti M7)?

Suppose I have a recording of a drum miced in a small booth, or a string ensemble, in a 20'x20', but I want a 80'x80'x30' wooden tone (not too much reverby). I know there's nothing like the real thing, but do you have any suggestions? Price unimportant...
Old 14th September 2016
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
What's the best outboard reverb for small to medium room or hall emulation (excluding the Bricasti M7)?

Suppose I have a recording of a drum miced in a small booth, or a string ensemble, in a 20'x20', but I want a 80'x80'x30' wooden tone (not too much reverby). I know there's nothing like the real thing, but do you have any suggestions? Price unimportant...
The lexicons have decent medium hall/rooms. I use the PCM96 if I want a relatively open room (of course the early reflections from your recording room will still be on there)
Old 14th September 2016
  #3
True, about the early reflections of my room. I would like to be able to 'add' a reverb that sounds as natural as possible, and complement my room. This might not be completely possible, but I want to try it.

I plan to use the reverb during tracking, so I'll consider it when micing the instruments, EQing, etc. It'll be part of the recorded tracks, not just added in the mix, so I can deal better with mic placement, and mix with actual room reflections, etc.
Old 14th September 2016
  #4
Gear Addict
 
Pred80r's Avatar
 

reverb on tracking (input side)

I can think of a few things that are wrong with this process but lets just start with trying to change the reverb after you hear it on tape/disc...

I am trying to wrap my head around this, you have instruments in a room that has natural reverb, you want to add in reverb on top of that to suit your mix and then NOT be able to affect it in the mix?

OK, I will try anything once...twice if I like it...

Jack


[QUOTE=DavidChampoux

I plan to use the reverb during tracking, so I'll consider it when micing the instruments, EQing, etc. It'll be part of the recorded tracks, not just added in the mix, so I can deal better with mic placement, and mix with actual room reflections, etc.[/QUOTE]
Old 14th September 2016
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pred80r View Post
I can think of a few things that are wrong with this process but lets just start with trying to change the reverb after you hear it on tape/disc...

I am trying to wrap my head around this, you have instruments in a room that has natural reverb, you want to add in reverb on top of that to suit your mix and then NOT be able to affect it in the mix?

OK, I will try anything once...twice if I like it...

Jack

While I understand this is not a usual way of doing things by today's standards, I like the idea of doing it the old way, a-la-'60s.

Suppose I have 8-12 string players. We are in 1969, we have budget, and we have a 80x60x30 studio to record this ensemble. We have 2 tracks available on the Ampex 8 tracks machine, and a nice pair of U67 or U87i to mic the ensemble. The natural reverb of the room will record in the mics, can't do nothing about that. Can't remove that in the mix. However, you'll position the mics (or specific players) according and dealing with that reverb, closer of farther, etc, depending on the sound/proximity you want, etc.

That's what I want to do in my lo budget small 20x20 room. I know this is not possible by phisics laws, but I want to try it and get as close as possible.

The idea is basically to add the reverb to the buss like even before I turn on the mics... It has to be part of the sound. YES, of course, I can set the overall reverb level, but you get the idea... And I want to do it set and forget. 2 tracks, pre-mixed, and that's it.
Old 14th September 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

I'm afraid to ask but why exclude the M7. Did we screw something up?



-Casey
Old 14th September 2016
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I'm afraid to ask but why exclude the M7. Did we screw something up?



-Casey
Hi Casey,

NO definitely not screwed anything!! I've had a M7 a few years ago, and while this is a TOP CLASS reverb, it's just not the exact tone I'm looking for at the moment...

Didn't meant to offend you by any means. In fact, your product is SO hot that I knew I would have like 9/10 suggestions toward the M7, so that's why I prefered to exclude it in the first place.
Old 14th September 2016
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Pred80r's Avatar
 

60's -70's recording

In the 1960's your budget included the best mics and the best reverbs that are still in use today. The engineers would place the band into the best recording and reverb configuration, with the best mics possible and THEN they would send feeds to AMAZING reverbs like EMT's and MODTONES. Capital Records still has reverb chambers that all the olug ins try to emulate. But I have not heard of someone printing reverb into the tracks on the tracking/input side. Please understand I am not saying that your process won't work, because as I have learned, EVERYTHING can work in the right situation. I just wanted to point out that you may be limiting yourself, but hey if it works for the song then it works and you should go with it.

I say whatever sounds good...still sounds good after you learn the recording process involved.

Go for it and send me a link!

Thanx,
Jack



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
While I understand this is not a usual way of doing things by today's standards, I like the idea of doing it the old way, a-la-'60s.

Suppose I have 8-12 string players. We are in 1969, we have budget, and we have a 80x60x30 studio to record this ensemble. We have 2 tracks available on the Ampex 8 tracks machine, and a nice pair of U67 or U87i to mic the ensemble. The natural reverb of the room will record in the mics, can't do nothing about that. Can't remove that in the mix. However, you'll position the mics (or specific players) according and dealing with that reverb, closer of farther, etc, depending on the sound/proximity you want, etc.

That's what I want to do in my lo budget small 20x20 room. I know this is not possible by phisics laws, but I want to try it and get as close as possible.

The idea is basically to add the reverb to the buss like even before I turn on the mics... It has to be part of the sound. YES, of course, I can set the overall reverb level, but you get the idea... And I want to do it set and forget. 2 tracks, pre-mixed, and that's it.
Old 14th September 2016
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
Hi Casey,

NO definitely not screwed anything!! I've had a M7 a few years ago, and while this is a TOP CLASS reverb, it's just not the exact tone I'm looking for at the moment...

Didn't meant to offend you by any means. In fact, your product is SO hot that I knew I would have like 9/10 suggestions toward the M7, so that's why I prefered to exclude it in the first place.
I use the M7 for the particular task you ask for.. On Rooms algo, one of the Studio presets will do exactly that.. I have many other reverb units but for natural yet big, punchy and powerful drum rooms for me the M7 is untouchable
Old 14th September 2016
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pred80r View Post
In the 1960's your budget included the best mics and the best reverbs that are still in use today. The engineers would place the band into the best recording and reverb configuration, with the best mics possible and THEN they would send feeds to AMAZING reverbs like EMT's and MODTONES. Capital Records still has reverb chambers that all the olug ins try to emulate. But I have not heard of someone printing reverb into the tracks on the tracking/input side. Please understand I am not saying that your process won't work, because as I have learned, EVERYTHING can work in the right situation. I just wanted to point out that you may be limiting yourself, but hey if it works for the song then it works and you should go with it.

I say whatever sounds good...still sounds good after you learn the recording process involved.

Go for it and send me a link!

Thanx,
Jack
Hi Jack, thanks for your follow-up.

Yep, that process is limiting, and that's exactly what I want, believe it or not. It might sound counter productive, but I'm like that. I like to re-create some of the limitations of the '60s and '70s, because I think those exact limitations lead to better producing (final) decisions, and at more appropriate moments during the recording process. I know, I'm different, and that is strange, and all and all, but that's how I am. And I assume it. I'm NOT trying to convince anyone that it's THE way of doing things at all... That's just how I like to do this, for MY own fun.

Want a link? Check the attached MP3. That's something I did a few years ago, applying the process and philosophy mentioned. That song is a french version of a known '60s song. All the album is in that direction. I'm a Sinatra fan... Trying to do what I can to achieve this...

Regarding the strings on that recording, there's some longer reverb added at mix (digital and spring), but most of the 'room' stuff was recorded on the tracks. A blend with close mics, room mics, lots of short reverb feeded from close mics AND mostly room mics, to 'extend' my room, if this makes sense...

The particular reverb I had at that moment (and I used it a lot) was a Dynacord DRP-20 1st gen. That reverb is better known for longer grainy tails, but funnily enough, I always preferred it for the short stuff, small room emulation, etc. Once again, I'm different. Anyway... I'm mainly trying to replace that reverb, since mine died a few years ago, and nothing that I've tried so far compares. Not that it was better than say, a M7, but it was just different...
Attached Files

Track No06.mp3 (3.64 MB, 684 views)

Old 14th September 2016
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
I use the M7 for the particular task you ask for.. On Rooms algo, one of the Studio presets will do exactly that.. I have many other reverb units but for natural yet big, punchy and powerful drum rooms for me the M7 is untouchable

Thanks for your opinion! Might give the M7 one more round one of these days!
Old 14th September 2016
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Pred80r's Avatar
 

Your Track

David,

It sounds a lot like a Bond Theme, and has a decidedly 70's feel. I think most of users here will applaud you on the style and feel of the track, but at the same time the production values are very reminiscent of the same time period. I think it sounds great for that style and time...

I still think you are limiting yourself by printing reverb on top of room verb.

But to answer your initial question, I think an EMT 250 or Rev 7 will get you the feel you want for trax like these.

The rev 7 is dirtier and more analogue sounding. The EMT 250 is rare, hard to find and very expensive.

Thanx,
Jack




Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
Hi Jack, thanks for your follow-up.

Yep, that process is limiting, and that's exactly what I want, believe it or not. It might sound counter productive, but I'm like that. I like to re-create some of the limitations of the '60s and '70s, because I think those exact limitations leads to better producing (final) decisions, and at more appropriate moments during the recording process. I know, I'm different, and that is strange, and all and all, but that's how I am. And I assume it. I'm trying to convince anyone that it's THE way of doing things at all... That's just how I like to do this, for MY own fun.

Want a link? Check the attached MP3. That's something I did a few years ago, applying the process and philosophy mentioned. That song is a french version of an existing '60s song. All the album is in that direction. I'm a Sinatra fan... Trying to do what I can to achieve this...

Regarding the strings, there's some longer reverb applied at mix (digital and spring), but most of the 'room' stuff was recorded on the tracks. A blend with close mics, room mics, lot of short reverb feeded from close mics AND room mics, etc.

The particular reverb I had at that moment (and I used it a lot) was a Dynacord DRP-20 1st gen. That reverb is better known for longer grainy tails, but funnily enough, I always preferred it for the short stuff, small room emulation, etc. Once again, I'm different. Anyway... I'm mainly trying to replace that reverb, since mine died a few years ago, and nothing that I've tried so far compares. Not that it was better than say, a M7, but it was just different...
Old 14th September 2016
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pred80r View Post
David,

It sounds a lot like a Bond Theme, and has a decidedly 70's feel. I think most of users here will applaud you on the style and feel of the track, but at the same time the production values are very reminiscent of the same time period. I think it sounds great for that style and time...

I still think you are limiting yourself by printing reverb on top of room verb.

But to answer your initial question, I think an EMT 250 or Rev 7 will get you the feel you want for trax like these.

The rev 7 is dirtier and more analogue sounding. The EMT 250 is rare, hard to find and very expensive.

Thanx,
Jack
Thanks for your follow-up. I have the Yamaha Pro R3 which is the final and upgraded version of the Rev 7 'familly', and I really like this reverb for longer and fuller stuff. Very useful at times. Don't like it for short stuff.

The 250 now, I would love to try/own one, but like you said, rare, and very expensive.

The quest continues!
Old 14th September 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
The Quantec Yardstick room simulator works pretty well on the mix bus for this kind of stuff. Did it myself several times. The mix keeps transparent also with smaller rooms.
Old 14th September 2016
  #15
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

Yes I would suggest the Quantec Yardstick as well (2402)
Old 14th September 2016
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
The Quantec Yardstick room simulator works pretty well on the mix bus for this kind of stuff. Did it myself several times. The mix keeps transparent also with smaller rooms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
Yes I would suggest the Quantec Yardstick as well (2402)
VERY interesting unit guys, thanks for the link! Will look onto that one!
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