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SSL G "Join" type automation in PT 12?
Old 5th September 2016
  #1
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tyrobins's Avatar
 

SSL G "Join" type automation in PT 12?

For all you with SSL G automation experience and use Pro Tools 12...

Is there some function that would mirror the ability to stop, roll back, and join the automation to create a scene change like on an SSL 4000?

I mix on a 4000 e/g with a G+ computer, and I'm trying to figure out how to move that important part of the workflow to ITB mixes.

Thanks!
Old 5th September 2016
  #2
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grrrayson's Avatar
 

You could just change your automation mode back to "write", right?

It's been a while since I've used an SSL but the "join" command could be used different ways.

What are you trying accomplish, exactly?
Old 5th September 2016
  #3
My SSL automation knowledge is rusty, but I think you can achieve the same thing in 12HD using the rehearse and punch functions - rehearse lets you adjust your volume levels free of automation, then you can just drop it in in the next section as required.

I think it's an HD only function.

And I think you can do it in trim too, to avoid overwriting detail rides.

Maybe double check all that in the PT manual?
Old 5th September 2016
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
My SSL automation knowledge is rusty, but I think you can achieve the same thing in 12HD using the rehearse and punch functions - rehearse lets you adjust your volume levels free of automation, then you can just drop it in in the next section as required.

I think it's an HD only function.
This is basically what I do in non-HD Pro Tools with "off" and "write" automation modes.
Old 5th September 2016
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
This is basically what I do in non-HD Pro Tools with "off" and "write" automation modes.
Could you explain a little more what you're doing in non-HD? I think what y'all are describing is what I'm looking for.
Old 5th September 2016
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
My SSL automation knowledge is rusty, but I think you can achieve the same thing in 12HD using the rehearse and punch functions - rehearse lets you adjust your volume levels free of automation, then you can just drop it in in the next section as required.

I think it's an HD only function.

And I think you can do it in trim too, to avoid overwriting detail rides.

Maybe double check all that in the PT manual?
Preview!

And it does work with trim. I think you can sortof achieve the same thing with suspend and write-to-current in non-hd systems. Suspend it, change whatever you want write to (selected, start, end).

Glide to current is also very handy (instead of all parameters jumping, you can select a glide time).

Here is a good video of it-

https://vimeo.com/5076807
Old 5th September 2016
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrobins View Post
Could you explain a little more what you're doing in non-HD? I think what y'all are describing is what I'm looking for.
There are lots of different subtle things we could be talking about, but mainly:

Let's say you've automated a section of a song but then when listening back you want to change just that one section. So you turn the automation mode on that track to "off", rehearse your fader levels for that section, then when you want to print it, leaving the fader level on your controller at the level you want want to start with on that section (you're still in "off" at this point), locate to the beginning of the section, switch to "write" hit play, and voila—you're printing new automation over that section at the level you left the fader at. When that section passes, you can hit stop on the transport or even switch automation modes while still playing to complete the "join".

There are lots of ways to accomplish this stuff that might be easier depending on what's going on (like just using the trim tool, for example, or keeping note of the new desired fader level and then just being good and quick and accurate with "touch" mode) but this is the most old-school and one I do use sometimes myself, as I like to keep it old-school with physical faders when practical.


Does that answer your question? Is that what you're trying to accomplish?
Old 5th September 2016
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I think you can sortof achieve the same thing with suspend and write-to-current in non-hd systems. Suspend it, change whatever you want write to (selected, start, end).
The "write to end" etc. commands don't exist on non-HD Pro Tools, unfortunately. Nothing you can't get around with a couple of clicks, though (e.g. select, delete on the last automation point).
Old 5th September 2016
  #9
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Thanks, very good ideas.

To describe further what I'm trying to accomplish:

(Let's assume ... INTRO - V1 - C1 - V2 - C2 - B - C3 - OUTRO). I'd like to set the fader levels (via Artist Mix or equivalent) to the levels I want for the INTRO. Then in "write" mode start play/write just before the intro.

Write the INTRO levels. Then when the V1 starts, begin to move faders to change to levels wanted for V1 (still writing). Stop playback.

On the SSL, at this point if I rewind/rollback about 15 seconds to get back into the intro, the console drops out of "write". After rewinding 15 sec, stopping, and then hitting play again, now the console is in playback...playing that previous INTRO + V1 until I hit "join".

This means the SSL faders are still physically at the V1 levels I moved to while listening on the first "write" pass before hitting stop and rewinding to the middle of the INTRO. But when I hit play after rewinding to the middle of INTRO, the console is playing back that first pass.

So the faders are physically at my V1 levels, but the console is playing back the previous pass of INTRO. When my playback reaches the downbeat of V1, I hit "join" on the SSL computer keys. Immediately the whole console goes in to "write", and the physical location of the faders is now writing. Which means on the downbeat of V1 *BAM* scene change.

Then play/write through V1 with those settings and here comes C1. While writing/listening through C1 adjust faders to C1 levels. Stop. Rewind a bit back in to V1. Console drops to playback. Hit play. Console playing written V1 levels. Downbeat of C1 hit "join". Physical fader location immediately starts writing on downbeat of C1.

Working through the song this way is my workflow of building song dynamics and movement. Credit where due...Chris Lord-Alge mixes this way, and I bogarted it.

Wanna get to a place where I can work the same automation workflow ITB. Just not sure if it will ever be as simple, or even possible.
Old 5th September 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrobins View Post
Thanks, very good ideas.

To describe further what I'm trying to accomplish:

(Let's assume ... INTRO - V1 - C1 - V2 - C2 - B - C3 - OUTRO). I'd like to set the fader levels (via Artist Mix or equivalent) to the levels I want for the INTRO. Then in "write" mode start play/write just before the intro.

Write the INTRO levels. Then when the V1 starts, begin to move faders to change to levels wanted for V1 (still writing). Stop playback.

On the SSL, at this point if I rewind/rollback about 15 seconds to get back into the intro, the console drops out of "write". After rewinding 15 sec, stopping, and then hitting play again, now the console is in playback...playing that previous INTRO + V1 until I hit "join".

This means the SSL faders are still physically at the V1 levels I moved to while listening on the first "write" pass before hitting stop and rewinding to the middle of the INTRO. But when I hit play after rewinding to the middle of INTRO, the console is playing back that first pass.

So the faders are physically at my V1 levels, but the console is playing back the previous pass of INTRO. When my playback reaches the downbeat of V1, I hit "join" on the SSL computer keys. Immediately the whole console goes in to "write", and the physical location of the faders is now writing. Which means on the downbeat of V1 *BAM* scene change.

Then play/write through V1 with those settings and here comes C1. While writing/listening through C1 adjust faders to C1 levels. Stop. Rewind a bit back in to V1. Console drops to playback. Hit play. Console playing written V1 levels. Downbeat of C1 hit "join". Physical fader location immediately starts writing on downbeat of C1.

Working through the song this way is my workflow of building song dynamics and movement. Credit where due...Chris Lord-Alge mixes this way, and I bogarted it.

Wanna get to a place where I can work the same automation workflow ITB. Just not sure if it will ever be as simple, or even possible.
Tyrobins!!!!!

I am with you 100% here, I am trying to figure out how to do this with Cubase Pro, after using the SSL computer Join forever....Cannot seem to get this to happen in the DAW.

Missing it here. Anybody figured this out in Cubendo?

Fingers Crossed
Old 5th September 2016
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrobins View Post
Thanks, very good ideas.

To describe further what I'm trying to accomplish:

(Let's assume ... INTRO - V1 - C1 - V2 - C2 - B - C3 - OUTRO). I'd like to set the fader levels (via Artist Mix or equivalent) to the levels I want for the INTRO. Then in "write" mode start play/write just before the intro.

Write the INTRO levels. Then when the V1 starts, begin to move faders to change to levels wanted for V1 (still writing). Stop playback.

On the SSL, at this point if I rewind/rollback about 15 seconds to get back into the intro, the console drops out of "write". After rewinding 15 sec, stopping, and then hitting play again, now the console is in playback...playing that previous INTRO + V1 until I hit "join".

This means the SSL faders are still physically at the V1 levels I moved to while listening on the first "write" pass before hitting stop and rewinding to the middle of the INTRO. But when I hit play after rewinding to the middle of INTRO, the console is playing back that first pass.

So the faders are physically at my V1 levels, but the console is playing back the previous pass of INTRO. When my playback reaches the downbeat of V1, I hit "join" on the SSL computer keys. Immediately the whole console goes in to "write", and the physical location of the faders is now writing. Which means on the downbeat of V1 *BAM* scene change.

Then play/write through V1 with those settings and here comes C1. While writing/listening through C1 adjust faders to C1 levels. Stop. Rewind a bit back in to V1. Console drops to playback. Hit play. Console playing written V1 levels. Downbeat of C1 hit "join". Physical fader location immediately starts writing on downbeat of C1.

Working through the song this way is my workflow of building song dynamics and movement. Credit where due...Chris Lord-Alge mixes this way, and I bogarted it.

Wanna get to a place where I can work the same automation workflow ITB. Just not sure if it will ever be as simple, or even possible.
Yeah, that would work with the HD workflow I'm thinking of - you'd just need to hit "preview", adjust levels, then rewind and "punch" in the automation on write enabled faders on the downbeat. To make it a non-mouse operation you'd need either the artist control or the iPad Dock and have a customised key for it I guess (unless there's one already programmed).

It would be harder, and I'd deem it a "workaround" on non-HD software.
Old 5th September 2016
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
"punch" in the automation on write enabled faders on the downbeat
How do you actually do that? It's been a long time since I've used HD, ha!


Easy to do in non-HD; just switch to "write" from "off" at the appropriate place like I mentioned above. Make a selection of all the tracks you want, option+shift click the automation mode on one track. Or have them grouped and change the automation mode on one track with the button on the Artist Mix. Shouldn't take more button presses or rewinds than on an actual SSL.
Old 5th September 2016
  #13
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Thanks for the replies. Happy Labor Day.

So, the problem I have with both the *preview* and *shift+opt, turn to write on down beat* is this:

On the SSL when you stop playback in V1 and rewind, when you hit play again in INTRO you are now listening to INTRO automation previously written. This helps...when you hear what you've previously "kept" for INTRO, and then hear the scene change immediately when you hit "join" on V1 downbeat and start writing current fader placement, it's a telling moment to see if the scene change will work.

If I use *preview*, when I stop playback in V1 and rewind into middle of INTRO once I hit play PT is still *previewing* the new fader positions while playing INTRO. PT is not playing my previously written INTRO automation. I'll be able to punch those new fader positions on the downbeat of V1 yes...but I won't hear the scene change when it happens. I found that hearing that shift upon the *join* punch is a big part of this workflow, and is what I'm missing and trying to do in PT.

Honestly, I'd mix in a different DAW if I could work this way.

Last edited by tyrobins; 5th September 2016 at 08:13 PM.. Reason: punctuation
Old 5th September 2016
  #14
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You're doing it right. set your automation to whatever you want to preview (Vol in your case) - automation in Latch. hit preview and touch the faders you want to isolate in preview.... get levels for the next section. go back to previous section that you like your level on.

You can temporarily suspend Preview mode, allowing you to toggle between preview values and existing automation.
To suspend Preview mode:
Control-click(Windows)orCommand-click (Mac) the Preview button.

Suspend preview to hear old levels. then reactivate preview (Control-click(Windows)orCommand-click (Mac) the Preview button) and punch the preview at the downbeat.

Alternatively - make a loop of both sections and suspend / reactivate until it works for you, then select the preview section, hit punch preview and write to all. this will embed the preview values to the selected section.
Old 6th September 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yfuchs View Post
You're doing it right. set your automation to whatever you want to preview (Vol in your case) - automation in Latch. hit preview and touch the faders you want to isolate in preview.... get levels for the next section. go back to previous section that you like your level on.

You can temporarily suspend Preview mode, allowing you to toggle between preview values and existing automation.
To suspend Preview mode:
Control-click(Windows)orCommand-click (Mac) the Preview button.

Suspend preview to hear old levels. then reactivate preview (Control-click(Windows)orCommand-click (Mac) the Preview button) and punch the preview at the downbeat.

Alternatively - make a loop of both sections and suspend / reactivate until it works for you, then select the preview section, hit punch preview and write to all. this will embed the preview values to the selected section.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

This is what I was looking for...didn't know about suspend preview.

Spent some time with it today. This changes everything ITB for me! It'll take some time to practice it and make it second nature.

And now I want to add an Artist Control to my Artist Mix to be able to use Preview and Punch commands without grabbing the mouse, and buy an HD Native PT 12 system. Sheesh
Old 6th September 2016
  #16
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Anybody got this working in cubase? / Nuendo?
Old 4th July 2017
  #17
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jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrobins View Post
For all you with SSL G automation experience and use Pro Tools 12...

Is there some function that would mirror the ability to stop, roll back, and join the automation to create a scene change like on an SSL 4000?

I mix on a 4000 e/g with a G+ computer, and I'm trying to figure out how to move that important part of the workflow to ITB mixes.

Thanks!

Once you get past V1 and you've adjusted your C1 levels (channels in latch mode), press Capture before hitting stop and then roll back to the last 8 beats of V1. While the song continues, press Punch Capture exactly at the beginning of C1. Punch Capture will act as SSL's Join in the scenario you described.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrobins View Post
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

This is what I was looking for...didn't know about suspend preview.

Spent some time with it today. This changes everything ITB for me! It'll take some time to practice it and make it second nature.

And now I want to add an Artist Control to my Artist Mix to be able to use Preview and Punch commands without grabbing the mouse, and buy an HD Native PT 12 system. Sheesh

How has this been working for you Tyrobins?

Anything/issues you've come across while working this method?

Which automation mode is best do you find?
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