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Focal Twin Users
Old 26th August 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
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Focal Twin Users

When I bought the Focal twins I was told that it doesn't matter to have them horizontally or vertically. They should perform the same.
So I flushmounted mine horizontally when I build my ctrl room. However I always thought they sounded abit unclear and I didn't hear those transients I wanted to hear. Everything sounded abit smeared somehow. When I started doing some mixes I also realized that I overcompensated some freq, making my mixes quite harsh sounding. And when measuring my Focals I can see their dips around 2 and 7 khz.
So I took the Focals out from the wall and tried them vertically. I got stunned how different the sound became. They sounds like another speaker. Much more accurate and the transients where back whith the HF energy almost pushy.
If I didn't have an unacceptable cancellation around 80hz I could use them outside the wall but the flashmounting seams to be the only way to get rid of it. So before I start to rebuild the wall for a new placement, I just wanted to check if someone got any similar conclusions? I always try to get the tweeters ear hight and about 170cm from eachother but would it be any ide'a to experiment with other placements as well? The room is very well treated by the way.
Old 26th August 2016
  #2
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You're not imaging things. They do perform better vertically:
https://www.resolutionmag.com/wp-con...l-Twin6-BE.pdf

Your bass issues are probably to do with the distance front the front wall (closer is often better - search for SBIR to learn more).
Old 27th August 2016
  #3
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Makes sense there would be issues since it is a 2-1/2 way speaker and isn't keyed (mirrored left/right.) When placed horizontal, the mid-bass is outputted by both left (or right drivers) and the bass by both right (or left drivers.) When you move your head along the horizontal axis, the image is shifting since your ears' relationship to the three drivers is changing (phase/time). In the vertical placement, horizontal movement would have your ears still in the same stereo field (vertical movement would suffer though but that really isn't a mixer's problem.)

This is the reason why 3-way speakers that can be positioned both directions usually have their tweeter and mid vertically aligned but rotatable as a unit keeping them together on one axis no matter horizontal or vertical.
Old 27th August 2016
  #4
Gear Addict
When I had them in my first room they were horizontal then when I built a new room and they went vertical. Ended up with the tweeters on the inside too. For some reason the highend was ever so slightly flatter this way.
Old 27th August 2016
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Makes sense there would be issues since it is a 2-1/2 way speaker and isn't keyed (mirrored left/right.) When placed horizontal, the mid-bass is outputted by both left (or right drivers) and the bass by both right (or left drivers.) When you move your head along the horizontal axis, the image is shifting since your ears' relationship to the three drivers is changing (phase/time). In the vertical placement, horizontal movement would have your ears still in the same stereo field (vertical movement would suffer though but that really isn't a mixer's problem.)

This is the reason why 3-way speakers that can be positioned both directions usually have their tweeter and mid vertically aligned but rotatable as a unit keeping them together on one axis no matter horizontal or vertical.
They actually do have a manual switch for mirroring L/R
Old 27th August 2016
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderix View Post
They actually do have a manual switch for mirroring L/R
That's good. Improves on a poor design because otherwise there was little chance to get a stable stereo image in the horizontal plane. Still, the vertical axis isn't aligned when the speaker is horizontal. MTM configurations usually have both twin drivers doing the same thing. If you look at Westlakes or the ATC 45, for instance, you'll see that configuration. Vertically placed, the Focal Twin has two drivers aligned with the difference in spacing between the tweeter and mid being near enough not to affect the crossover freq between the 2 drivers. It still would have been better to do a setup like the ATC 25 (or the countless other speakers who do this.)
Old 27th August 2016
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
You're not imaging things. They do perform better vertically:
https://www.resolutionmag.com/wp-con...l-Twin6-BE.pdf
Which are also quite amazing since the article in SOS says exact the opposite.
Focal Twin 6 | Sound On Sound
Old 27th August 2016
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderix View Post
Which are also quite amazing since the article in SOS says exact the opposite.
Focal Twin 6 | Sound On Sound
"As with other speakers of this type, the Twin 6 is designed to be used horizontally,..."

That reviewer isn't even aware they can be used vertically (so there was zero comparison.) He also reviews them as being poor speakers (in a very British way.)
Old 27th August 2016
  #9
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It's possible Focal thought the horizontal postion was better for marketing/aesthetics...
Old 27th August 2016
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
It's possible Focal thought the horizontal postion was better for marketing/aesthetics...
That sounds so crazy, but what do I know.
Old 27th August 2016
  #11
It depends on the size of your room which position fits best I have found. Still love mine after having them for several years
Old 27th August 2016
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
It depends on the size of your room which position fits best I have found. Still love mine after having them for several years
What distance did you use them in your different rooms and angels?
Old 27th August 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderix View Post
That sounds so crazy, but what do I know.
Wouldn't be the first time. Yamaha originally designed the NS10 as a vertical speaker. Then when they got popular in studios they changed to a horizontal logo...

This image illustrates the problem with horizontal driver spacing:

Old 28th August 2016
  #14
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Actually if you really dig deep into the science of acoustics, you will find every inch of your room sounds different, so just the sheer fact you moved the speakers could have caused the changes.

Having said that I used to own them and they always worked better vertically for me as well. I don't really care what people say.. the manual had positioning guides which included both horizontal and vertical, so whoever told you that was misinformed anyway.
Old 28th August 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderix View Post
So I took the Focals out from the wall and tried them vertically. I got stunned how different the sound became.
You think the difference was from being vertical. I think it was from no longer being flush-mounted. Speakers like some space around them.
Old 28th August 2016
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Payne View Post
You think the difference was from being vertical. I think it was from no longer being flush-mounted. Speakers like some space around them.
The experience I had was both horizontally and vertically outside the wall.
Besides that, other things happened as well like more dips and peaks issues but suppose that makes sence.
By the way, could you please clarify that speakers like some space between them?

Last edited by Faderix; 29th August 2016 at 04:08 AM..
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