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Dangerous 2-buss/Fatso/HEDD
Old 31st January 2004
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Dangerous 2-buss/Fatso/HEDD

Help!

Been doin' some research on this fine site, trying to figure something out. I'd love your help. I'm trying to complete a CD project in my own studio. I'm anal about my sound -- I don't want to farm it out to a mastering house, etc.

I have PT LE. I currently go out of a Digi 002 into a dbx Quantum for "mastering" and then back into the 002 to bounce to disk (after running thru the Waves L2).

I'm considering inserting a Fatso in between the 002 and the Quantum to "warm" things up or maybe get some tape sat or maybe some distortion to the entire mix as a "glue."

Been reading also about the HEDD and the Dangerous analog summing process. Here are my questions. If you were me, would you try the Fatso or HEDD in that role first? BTW, I tried the Alan Smart C2 in that role and I was really disappointed -- I thought it sounded way too over the top, no matter what setting I tried. Last question: Would "analog summing" be a better route to go? Can anyone articulate exactly what it is/does? Is the Dangerous 2-buss the way to go? HELP??
Old 31st January 2004
  #2
Providing that you already have a good room, with great playing, there are many fundamental things you can do to improve your signal chain to make it sound better. You said you are anal about your sound. What kind of front end do you have starting with the microphone, preamps, and converter? Forget about adding color and character to the sound as a main goal...start with the goal being fidelity, and just by design there are certain pieces that will have both character and fidelity simultaneously. You don't need a band aid to fix a gaping wound.

If you already have a jaw dropping front end before the DAW ("middle of the road" gear still disappoints) then you could consider mixing in the analog domain with units such as the Dangerous 2 bus, the Folcrom, and a few more units that may be coming out in the near future. Mixing on an analog summing surface (essentially a console with no features, not a new thing...but what they lack in features they make up for in the goal of good sonics) to my ears widens the mix considerably, gives things room to breath and adds depth, makes mixing much easier, and also allows you to interface analog processing without multiple conversions, printing tracks, etc. It doesn't "warm" anything up though. If you want to add distortion and "glue", then that's easy. If you want good sound and fidelity, that takes a little more work and thought to accomplish. Putting icing on a cake tastes a lot better than icing on a dog turd.
Old 31st January 2004
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I have a solid front-end. Great pres, Apogee converter (I use this to go from the Quantum back into PT).
Old 31st January 2004
  #4
I went back and looked at a few of your posts and saw your front end gear. Which is pretty good, not a lot of it, but if you aren't doing drums or mostly "live" tracking then it doesn't matter...quality over quantity. There are many things that could be the problem of why you aren't getting the sounds that you are happy with. It could be gear (I wouldn't be happy doing punk rock without a pair of Distressors and a real analog console), it could be the room, it could be your skill level with mic technique or mix technique (you said you don't want a mastering engineer to touch it...even some of the best recording and mix engineers use a good mastering engineer. Maybe even mixing one song with an experienced engineer at a compentent studio may be an education in itself). It took me 6 years of eating, breathing, and living engineering before I recorded a band and said "I'm on the right track". It took another 5 years after that before I said "I'm close to getting what I want".
Old 1st February 2004
  #5
Gear Maniac
Quote:
I'm considering inserting a Fatso in between the 002 and the Quantum to "warm" things up or maybe get some tape sat or maybe some distortion to the entire mix as a "glue."
Haven't used the Fatso but if its glue you're after I think you can rule out the Dangerous and the Hedd.


Quote:
Would "analog summing" be a better route to go? Can anyone articulate exactly what it is/does? Is the Dangerous 2-buss the way to go? HELP??
In my opinion analog summing is great way to mix providing you have good converters, a good selection of outboard gear, and a clean summing mixer.

Before shelling out for a Dangerous, try building a small mixer yourself and see if it helps your sound. You can build one from an old patch bay in a couple of hours with about $40 worth of parts following this schematic. Simple but pristine sound quality.

http://forsselltech.com/8chsum_2.pdf

Duaneadam
Old 1st February 2004
  #6
IMHO - Just get yourself the Phoenix plug in save yourself a lot of money!

Old 1st February 2004
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for all the feedback. Re the Phoenix -- I'd love to get it, but it's not available in PT LE, unfortunately.
Old 1st February 2004
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tunesmith's Avatar
 

Re: Dangerous 2-buss/Fatso/HEDD

Quote:
Originally posted by basement
Help!

Been doin' some research on this fine site, trying to figure something out. I'd love your help. I'm trying to complete a CD project in my own studio. I'm anal about my sound -- I don't want to farm it out to a mastering house, etc.

I just want to share a thought, and don't take it as a criticism.

Two years ago I would have said the exact same thing. I am a recorvering control freak DIYer who didn't want to let anyone else "mess" up my music.

2 years of poor mixes later, and in a moment of desperation due to a studio in the process of a move, I asked someone who I respected mix a track I produced.

His mix was superior to anything I had done and my product jumped in quality from a homemade to near pro. Now, I know there are a lot of jackasses who think they can mix, and you may very well be a rockstar producer and mixer, but may I suggest that forming a relationship with an excellent mastering engineer in your area might give you the disctint pleasure of hearing one of your babies reallty start to kick ass.

I know a lot of the time the wrong gear is the problem, but one time take a risk to find out if another set of ears might be the missing link. Not a judgement, since I am in the same boat as you most of the time.

Just my .02. I don't have a HEDD, Fatso, or a D2B. Sorry....

Tunes.
Old 1st February 2004
  #9
Gear Addict
 
Ianneve's Avatar
 

Hum,, well in so many ways it sounds like you are me 1 year ago. Except I was on nuendo and the frist thing I did was switch to Samplitude. That made a big difference. Then I got a Hedd. Big difference, then I bought the D2Buss. Big difference but not big enough untill I bought the 16 ch's of Mytek D/A's. (sold my RME ADI 8 pro) NOW we're talkin..... Then combine that with the Fairchild inside the UAD 1 and I'm finally getting there. I have to say that spending the money made a difference. I have the ears. I've been recording myself and others for almost 20 years but my focus was the art more then the engineering untill the last few years. So now I'm just starting to really compete against big budget records. I beat some. Some kick my ass. And so it goes. I really feel there is no way around big budget sound without spending money. Everytime I make a big purchase it ups the quality of my final product acordingly. Let me also recomend you take your room out of the picture and get some ASC studio traps. Amazing pro tuned room sound with a modular application. Not cheap. Worth every penny. As important if not more important as any purchase you can make. Unless your room is pro treated your hearing it and it's effecting your final result terribly. The traps take that out of the picture. Now if you already have all this figiured out then shut my mouth. Just my advice if you don't. :>)
Old 1st February 2004
  #10
Lives for gear
 
tunesmith's Avatar
 

There's no doubt in my mind that the gear makes a difference. I just spent a lot of dough upgrading my signal path and converters and whatnot. I am just going to combine better gear with more time spent around people who know what they're doing.

Who knows where the biggest improvements will come from.

Tunes.
Old 1st February 2004
  #11
Gear Maniac
Expensive people turning expensive knobs IS a hard combination to beat.

Duaneadam
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