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Modules sounding better in the Purple Sweet Ten? 500 Series Chassis
Old 18th August 2016
  #1
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Modules sounding better in the Purple Sweet Ten?

I've been researching which chassis to get, I've been using a loaner Radial Six Pack. Last night a buddy of mine let me borrow his Purple Sweet Ten and to my surprise the legend is true...modules sound better in the Purple. WTF?!

I guess the power is cleaner in the Purple because per slot the Radial has more milliamps than the Sweet Ten. And they both use power switchers...but the Radial is external.

I'm itching to try the WesAudio Supercarrier to see if it performs as well as the Purple....external linear PSU and all.

Figured I'd start a discussion on here to see what other's think. And any experience with the Supercarrier would be GREAT.

Last edited by Agno; 18th August 2016 at 08:16 PM..
Old 18th August 2016
  #2
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Power matters. Beefing up consoles power supplies is the #1 mod I do to them (consoles). It follows that 500 series power supplies matter as well. All that said, I only use the CAPI 500 series racks which have pretty beefy external power supplies. (Not switching supplies)
Old 18th August 2016
  #3
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Right...I totally get that. I just figured based on the math and the Radial has more, that it would be on par at least. But I'm not an electrical engineer. I'm assuming that the PSU is simply better in the Purple. Just really shocked as to how big the difference is. More doesn't mean better in power I'm assuming?
Old 19th August 2016
  #4
What modules are under test?
Old 19th August 2016
  #5
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Just one. It was a quick and simple with a great river Harrison 32EQ. Settings untouched. The interesting part is that before the purple got here I tried both jumper modes (FB & FF) in the 32EQ and the more modern/cleanly feed forward mode had more clarity than feedback. After putting it in the Purple, the 32EQ had more clarity in FB mode than either modes in the Radial. That's apart of what made it so shockingly obvious that the module sounded better in the purple.
Old 19th August 2016
  #6
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I'm not calling you a liar, but if the radial has higher mA per slot and performs properly, this seeks a little odd. Can you try a blind test?
Old 19th August 2016
  #7
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Well, I myself did a blind test. But honestly there's such a huge difference in response it's not really necessary. To me this says that the power quantity doesn't equal power quality in this case.

There was a post on here I came across with someone posting samples of different chassis and the results proved that it can sound different from unit to unit.

Unfortunately I can't post the files. Unreleased label material. And the purple has to be returned today.
Old 19th August 2016
  #8
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Sound files for comparison or it didn't happen... Sorry
Old 19th August 2016
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilddyr View Post
Sound files for comparison or it didn't happen... Sorry
Ha. I'm certainly not sorry.
Old 19th August 2016
  #10
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Sniperschool's Avatar
Clips run through both would be interesting to hear
Old 20th August 2016
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Just one. It was a quick and simple with a great river Harrison 32EQ. Settings untouched. The interesting part is that before the purple got here I tried both jumper modes (FB & FF) in the 32EQ and the more modern/cleanly feed forward mode had more clarity than feedback. After putting it in the Purple, the 32EQ had more clarity in FB mode than either modes in the Radial. That's apart of what made it so shockingly obvious that the module sounded better in the purple.
Interesting findings, I appreciate your response. This stuff is highly subjective. I will test this for myself soon.
Old 20th August 2016
  #12
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well, it's not that subjective is it? Does it sound different or not? Posting a statement and starting a thread saying something like this, needs to be backed up by evidence.
Old 20th August 2016
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilddyr View Post
well, it's not that subjective is it? Does it sound different or not? Posting a statement and starting a thread saying something like this, needs to be backed up by evidence.
Oh sorry...I forget its everyones job to prove things to ya'll "audio files, or it didn't happen" folks. Your malconent is noted and frankly, I don't think the OP is trying to prove anything, he is clearly trying to learn. So what if he did not run audio files or spin on his head twenty times with a blind fold. its just a post...Always questioning what a user experienced is getting tiring. Yes, its subjective. Maybe go back and read his post instead of hounding for proof. And when you're done absorbing it..Try it for yourself and listen.
Old 20th August 2016
  #14
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BS if the sound is so obviously different, as is suggested, and enough to start a thread about it, then it should be backed up by facts. There is too much pseudo science going on on GS as it is - not good for newbies coming here to learn, reading all kinds of unbacked claims, of which there are a LOT on this site.
Old 20th August 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilddyr View Post
BS if the sound is so obviously different, as is suggested, and enough to start a thread about it, then it should be backed up by facts. There is too much pseudo science going on on GS as it is - not good for newbies coming here to learn, reading all kinds of unbacked claims, of which there are a LOT on this site.
When did this site become scientific? I'm okay with someone giving me their experiences and opinions. If necessary, I can research further for myself.

No one will make me buy anything if they share an opinion contrasting products.

Yes, we risk shills placing marketing on the same level as semi-unbiased opinions.

This is the Internet. If you want a scientific site, you're more than welcome to start one. Asking a site with a name this stupid to follow rigid guidelines is futile.
Old 20th August 2016
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Oh sorry...I forget its everyones job to prove things to ya'll "audio files, or it didn't happen" folks. Your malconent is noted and frankly, I don't think the OP is trying to prove anything, he is clearly trying to learn. So what if he did not run audio files or spin on his head twenty times with a blind fold. its just a post...Always questioning what a user experienced is getting tiring. Yes, its subjective. Maybe go back and read his post instead of hounding for proof. And when you're done absorbing it..Try it for yourself and listen.
I think it's fair to question unusual results. Something pretty major would need to be going on for this to be a real thing. Radial would have had to have messed up the power supply pretty royally.
Old 20th August 2016
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
When did this site become scientific? I'm okay with someone giving me their experiences and opinions. If necessary, I can research further for myself.

No one will make me buy anything if they share an opinion contrasting products.

Yes, we risk shills placing marketing on the same level as semi-unbiased opinions.

This is the Internet. If you want a scientific site, you're more than welcome to start one. Asking a site with a name this stupid to follow rigid guidelines is futile.
Nonsense. That's non-arguments for this case. Does one thing sound better/worse than another, that is subjective. Does something sound different from each other is highly scientific. You can measure and test it.
Old 20th August 2016
  #18
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I find nothing unusual with gear getting different results with different power supplies. Honestly, IMO, the power supply is the most important aspect of any piece of gear - the more modules, heavier draw, and the larger the demand the more important the PS is. My experience with consoles and getting their supplies modded bears that out. (No I can't prove it.....)

As for having to "prove" any opinion or observation you may decide to share on the internet.... Absolutely ridiculous. Believe it or not, test yourself or not, it's your choice - not my responsibility to "prove".
Old 20th August 2016
  #19
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Ha. I didn't realize how much has gone on since I last posted.

For those who are plugged in and are into scientific evidence should probably start by reading up on the matter itself. On the TapeOp review he stated there was an obvious difference from his API to Purple. So that lead me down the rabbit whole. As I stated before, there are clips on GS already proving said findings with other chassis's.

So my question is, are you into having said evidence or complaining about not having it? If you're so interested, piece the puzzle together yourself. I did, based on what I read on here and other sources.

Also, these tests were for me and as Adam stated I have nothing to prove, only something to learn. And after speaking with Andrew at Purple at length about this, there are many factors involved that he was aware of that could effect shielding, filtering, and grounding. So it's not just the PSU. Plus when I first mentioned I did the shootout in the first few seconds of convo, he immediately described the difference I heard. It was like he was waiting for my call.

In addition, if you look at the product description page on purple's site, you'll find that even he says there will be an obvious difference in audio performance.

Last edited by Agno; 22nd August 2016 at 03:40 AM..
Old 20th August 2016
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I find nothing unusual with gear getting different results with different power supplies. Honestly, IMO, the power supply is the most important aspect of any piece of gear - the more modules, heavier draw, and the larger the demand the more important the PS is. My experience with consoles and getting their supplies modded bears that out. (No I can't prove it.....)

As for having to "prove" any opinion or observation you may decide to share on the internet.... Absolutely ridiculous. Believe it or not, test yourself or not, it's your choice - not my responsibility to "prove".
It's usually true that power is a weak link, but all the parameters are known. Power is not subjective [although it is audible mostly when it is poorly done]. It's v/a, filtering, ripple, regulation, etc.. A properly designed supply should be no different than another properly designed one. And switching PS can be great, again if done right. We shoot this kind of stuff out all the time, and we are diehard analog folks! The Hypex switching amps sounds better than many poorly executed analog designs for example. The devil is always in the details...
Old 20th August 2016
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I find nothing unusual with gear getting different results with different power supplies. Honestly, IMO, the power supply is the most important aspect of any piece of gear - the more modules, heavier draw, and the larger the demand the more important the PS is. My experience with consoles and getting their supplies modded bears that out. (No I can't prove it.....)

As for having to "prove" any opinion or observation you may decide to share on the internet.... Absolutely ridiculous. Believe it or not, test yourself or not, it's your choice - not my responsibility to "prove".
It's usually true that power is a weak link, but all the parameters are known. Power is not subjective [although it is audible mostly when it is poorly done]. It's v/a, filtering, ripple, regulation, etc.. A properly designed supply should be no different than another properly designed one. And switching PS can be great, again if done right. We shoot this kind of stuff out all the time, and we are diehard analog folks! The Hypex switching amps sounds better than many poorly executed analog designs for example. The devil is always in the details...
With that said, that radial PSU looks very cheap and omits a high frequency hum. It's quiet but loud enough for me to hear.
Old 22nd August 2016
  #22
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

I like the API and the Purple Sweet Ten, have and use them both. In my humble opinion i'll take about anything over the Radial, but thats me.
C:
Old 22nd August 2016
  #23
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I'm selling my radial right now in the classifieds! Cause it sucks
Old 22nd August 2016
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldi View Post
I'm selling my radial right now in the classifieds! Cause it sucks
Not a good selling point. lol
Old 22nd August 2016
  #25
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Guys, Power supplies matter, and they matter to how modules sound and preform. Because of that I created this PCB (DC FILTERING PCB – Collective Cases).

I currently have one of mine them hooked up and filtering my radial rack and it's PSU. It made a difference. I even measured about a 10db difference in noise reduction by using it. That across all your modules makes a difference. It is a pretty easy improvement. If you have a radial rack or a API rack, these could be a nice simple improvement. It is not sex but it does make a difference.


I have a few of the CAPI racks, a Sweet Ten and a Radial. I use the Radial in one of my travel racks. I really like the options on the back panel for routing. Because of that I wanted to improve the PSU. My DC filtering PCB helps. I also use them in a number of different applications. They are very handy.
Old 22nd August 2016
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
Guys, Power supplies matter, and they matter to how modules sound and preform. Because of that I created this PCB (DC FILTERING PCB – Collective Cases).

I currently have one of mine them hooked up and filtering my radial rack and it's PSU. It made a difference. I even measured about a 10db difference in noise reduction by using it. That across all your modules makes a difference. It is a pretty easy improvement. If you have a radial rack or a API rack, these could be a nice simple improvement. It is not sex but it does make a difference.


I have a few of the CAPI racks, a Sweet Ten and a Radial. I use the Radial in one of my travel racks. I really like the options on the back panel for routing. Because of that I wanted to improve the PSU. My DC filtering PCB helps. I also use them in a number of different applications. They are very handy.
Very cool...do you have an assembled option?
Old 22nd August 2016
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Very cool...do you have an assembled option?
I have all the parts in stock. I will be offering kits soon, I just need to find the time to kit them up and finish up the little metal cases for them. I could probably do a assembled version. I just need to figure out what that would cost.

But as is, they really do work. They can be used to help beef up a number of PSU or build up a PSU from scratch. I also, added more filtering to the +48.
Old 22nd August 2016
  #28
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
It's usually true that power is a weak link, but all the parameters are known. Power is not subjective [although it is audible mostly when it is poorly done].
Jonathan - the D&R power supplies I've had modded are not weak or poorly done by any stretch of the imagination. BUT, they are not highly tweaked for uber superior performance. Having Ralph Skelton @ Pacific Innovative Electronics mod one of them makes a noticeable difference in punch, transient response and noise. Well worth the (very) expensive modification. He literally overbuilds everything and turns the ground planes into 16 lane freeways.....
Old 22nd August 2016
  #29
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I find nothing unusual with gear getting different results with different power supplies. Honestly, IMO, the power supply is the most important aspect of any piece of gear - the more modules, heavier draw, and the larger the demand the more important the PS is. My experience with consoles and getting their supplies modded bears that out. (No I can't prove it.....)
The power supply has definitely influence to the performance of 500 modules.

Here I would like to suggest a look at the Zähl Rack 500 frame. It does not only have a very stabil external PSU. It also offers individual stabilisation on every slot. This leads to best performance of the modul itself and also to better isolation of influence by the neighboured moduls/slots.

Since I sell these Zähl units take my post with a grain of salt and understand that I don´t show audiofiles with different frames. This can be done by somebody else and I can provide the frame if somebody wants to make it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Zaehl_Rack500_Flyer.pdf (637.8 KB, 94 views)
Old 22nd August 2016
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Jonathan - the D&R power supplies I've had modded are not weak or poorly done by any stretch of the imagination. BUT, they are not highly tweaked for uber superior performance. Having Ralph Skelton @ Pacific Innovative Electronics mod one of them makes a noticeable difference in punch, transient response and noise. Well worth the (very) expensive modification. He literally overbuilds everything and turns the ground planes into 16 lane freeways.....
drBill-
My point is not that ps can be upgraded, or that power doesn't make a difference, just that unlike a few of the things we hear in audio, this stuff is very quantifiable. As dand and others point out filtering/ripple, regulation ['stiffness'], stability, ground plane [lowest impedance to ground for example], ESR of caps, etc etc. ARE audible! Switch mode supplies get a bad rap because many of them do not properly 'filter the hash' [out of band noise] among other things, as Dan makes his mod for. Few PS don't benefit from improved grounding, increased and better caps, better regulation, etc.. Most manufacturers can only go so far before finances intrude. Some don't know what do actually do...

Re Consoles- I used to just toss the supplies that came with many popular British consoles... grabbed a Lambda or other lab grade supply, and bang - lower noise, better LF!

A great new upgrade for most consoles are the Atomic supplies from Norman and Reid. It can lower noise significantly, and reduce power consumed/wasted, and can lower your cooling bill quite a bit. Highly recommended! Makes a big diff. on SSL, VR's, 9098's, etc.
http://www.atomicinstrument.com/products/
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