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Of mic pres and mics... Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 13th October 2002
  #1
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Of mic pres and mics...

Hi guys, how's it all hitting tape for you. I've got to say, I've been unusually impressed with the Millenia STT-1 Origins pre this past week. The unit we've had on loan also has a comp/limiter, an EQ, and a de-esser, but I've only had time and inclination to use the pre so far...in valve mode....lots of *here, now and wow* on vocals with an U47 before, and an LA2A and CL1B after.

One of these days I really would like to get together a Vipre, an STT-1, a V72/76 and a Marstech MSS10 in the same room with our Neves to shoot them out with the U47 (my Tubetech and Focusrite pres are out of the race already.)

Are there any other pres you'd propose to add to the list?

FWIW this evening I compared a Sony C800G on hire to my trusty U47 (from Bill Bradley at the Mic Shop in Nashville, hi Bill) on three male vocals (mine, an assistant's and another singer's) with a fairly neutral pre (SSL J)...and there is just no comparing the two IMHO. One is cold, with too much treble and nothing nice in the middle/low end...the other gives you that awesome big, warm vocal, with just the right amount of treble when you start compressing hard and often no need for EQ in the mix.

What the hell...the radio announcer just said that using Microsoft email software lowers sperm counts...wouldn't surprise me. Just wait 'til they do a study on the effects of using Fool Tools. heh

P.S. - I won't even comment about that tape sucks thread on the main forum...

So, any other pres you'd all propose to add?
Old 13th October 2002
  #2
Martech

Telefunken V70 series

GML

DW Fearn

To name but a few
Old 13th October 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
DigitMus's Avatar
 

Throw a Crane Song Flamingo in there just for fun.

Scott
Old 13th October 2002
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Maybe another pair of OSA preamps, either the Lundhal or "vintage" models. I think I'd also like to get a 4-channel Hardy or maybe another pair of Neves and I'll be happy for a while.

One of my V672s was crapping out today. At least I think it was. I had a Baby Bottle with a 20 and then 30dB pad in front of a Deluxe on 3 or 4 and something was clipping pretty badly. An SM57 into the OSA didn't have that problem, but the Bottle/672 sounded way better. Bummer. I'll have to look into that this week.
Old 13th October 2002
  #5
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AudioGaff's Avatar
I'd add the API 512 to that list. It can be phatter than a lot of tube stuff. It's not just for drums or guitar despite what most people seem to use them for. It and the 525 compressor sure is better sounding than the Summit Audio piece I have and am now gonna be selling. The Summit has the 990 op-amp and is full and fairly detailed but the API is all that, sweet and phat.
Old 13th October 2002
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Jay you saying that the OSA pre's are up there with the Telefunkens and Vipre?
Old 13th October 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Ditto API, Cranesong!

Jon i thought the Millenia stuff is kinda boring like Avalon... but thats just me!

The trynany of distance prevents a lot of great gear like what most of us here drool over, but simply is not avaialble becuase of our market is not even half the size of LA!!!!!!! so we simply cant get our sweaty gearsluty handz on it!

On the other hand is forces us to make a lot of quality gear to compenssate and this is merely one of the pieces that is local and i dont think anyone outside of Victoria(state in OZ) has one ... but the dude who makes them is this lovalbe little Austrian Fellow that is so freaking anal about his audio it makes me sick! (allbeit in a good way!) like he cant talk to me without picking up pen and paper and drwaing cirucuits etc..... i digress

This preamp is like a kellogs cereal ' just right' not too FAT and overwhelming liek some of the tube premaps are particularly Tele's (dont flame me mike i liek me stax just not for everything!.. neve are another matter! so each to thier own dig!) and not 'Thin' or anaemic like Avalon.. its gots Headroom for days like about 35dBU and just sounds right on nearly everything..

There are many other great local audio products made here in Australia that IMHO are a bargain and compete in every sense sonically and economically against all ya favoruites... just no one but a select few locally know about them becuase the dudes who create it are so 'boffinish' they dont know how to market thier **** ( so know one knows they even exist!) or are too busy building the next bit of kit that will allow them into sonic heaven!

If ur intersted let me know... this preamp is around $2000 Australian which is roughly $1000 US give or take...

PEACE
Wiggy
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Of mic pres and mics...-dec-preamp-crop.jpg  
Old 13th October 2002
  #8
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Ditto Sony 800G......


What a piece of flaming ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got a great deal from a dealer in UK on a whole bunch of sony mics 2 sony c48, 2 c38 then delaer offered me an 800G for a ridiculous price so i just said fuk it ill take it!!!!

I mean i had read great things about them and all but when i got it i was so let down.... It was the Avalon of mics... just boring thin. harsh ****y top end sizzle like a Rode on steroids. And all this for a mic that is often touted by some (fools IMHO) as being the successor to the u47's throne! and cost a freakin fortune to boot.... so Boot it i did and sold it the next week...

I dont know if i got a bad one or what?.. can some please fill me in or if u think im on crack? Does anyone here use one regualry for Vocals?.. i think they are meant to be the 'go to' mic for R&B (how they call it that and getaway with it i just dont know?).. any LA or NY types pls let me know... cos now im scared that this poor gearslut let a good thing slip thru his fingers....again!

but honestly it did sound ****E!!

Hmmmm

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 13th October 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
AudioGaff's Avatar
Like a lot of folk, I think the Avalon is great but boring. However, last week I was at friends studio and he was tracking a female R&B track with the 737 and the Sony 800 mic and I have to admit that it was a very beautiful sounding combo that blew me away. I have used a Sony 800 a few times (rental) and think it is a great mic but overpriced. It can be thin and a bit screatchy depending on the vocal and preamp. My friend raves about the Avalon, but I wouldn't buy one.
Old 13th October 2002
  #10
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by etherize
Jay you saying that the OSA pre's are up there with the Telefunkens and Vipre?
The V672s are solid state V72s and the OSA hangs with them. Different sound but it's good. Plus, they aren't as flaky. Not that I've had a lot of problems with the 672s but once in a while they'll act up and I need to resolder something. I haven't used the Vipre yet and I don't think I will. That's a chunk of change for one preamp.
Old 13th October 2002
  #11
Hey Wig,


A New York type here, the secret to the C800G is the pre. Most Neve's just don't work(except Neve 1081's). I always thought that an Api 312 was better. Also the Sony works and sounds best in omni mode(much smoother). It is a great mic for that modern pop/rnb airy vocal sound(hardly an Eq when mixing). Is it worth the dough they charge for it? Hell no.

It is useful mic none the less on the right vocal. It also inspires artists to sing better because of its looks.rollz



Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Ditto Sony 800G......


What a piece of flaming ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got a great deal from a dealer in UK on a whole bunch of sony mics 2 sony c48, 2 c38 then delaer offered me an 800G for a ridiculous price so i just said fuk it ill take it!!!!

I mean i had read great things about them and all but when i got it i was so let down.... It was the Avalon of mics... just boring thin. harsh ****y top end sizzle like a Rode on steroids. And all this for a mic that is often touted by some (fools IMHO) as being the successor to the u47's throne! and cost a freakin fortune to boot.... so Boot it i did and sold it the next week...

I dont know if i got a bad one or what?.. can some please fill me in or if u think im on crack? Does anyone here use one regualry for Vocals?.. i think they are meant to be the 'go to' mic for R&B (how they call it that and getaway with it i just dont know?).. any LA or NY types pls let me know... cos now im scared that this poor gearslut let a good thing slip thru his fingers....again!

but honestly it did sound ****E!!

Hmmmm

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 14th October 2002
  #12
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Ditto API, Cranesong!

Jon i thought the Millenia stuff is kinda boring like Avalon... but thats just me!

***********

There are many other great local audio products made here in Australia that IMHO are a bargain and compete in every sense sonically and economically against all ya favoruites... just no one but a select few locally know about them becuase the dudes who create it are so 'boffinish' they dont know how to market thier **** ( so know one knows they even exist!) or are too busy building the next bit of kit that will allow them into sonic heaven!

If ur intersted let me know... this preamp is around $2000 Australian which is roughly $1000 US give or take...
Like you, I was never intuitively excited by the Millenia vibe...then I tried one. The solid state versions are pretty transparent...not what I'm personally usually after, though I can understand why classic recordists love them...very well-defined, natural high-end response. More air than the J or Neve pres...great as room, ac git, strings or percussion pres I would imagine. No, it's the valve topology on 'em that surprised me very pleasantly on lead vox and bass cab. Not on e-git cabs though. But YMMV.

All my Neve pre/EQs have been out on a hire gig and won't return to the nest until Oct. 21, so I haven't been able to compare the STT-1 to them...but I definitely need to.

Hey, those Aussie boxes look like fun. Do you want to ask the mfgrs if we could borrow some of them for the pre shootout?
Old 14th October 2002
  #13
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Ditto Sony 800G... just boring thin. harsh ****y top end sizzle like a Rode on steroids.
That's what I heard as well.

However....it sounds pretty good on acoustic guitar. Maybe on some other treble-needy things too.
Old 14th October 2002
  #14
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
It is a great mic for that modern pop/rnb airy vocal sound(hardly an Eq when mixing).
I believe that. R&B is maybe a third of my workload and, contrary to the usual, I end up actually using quite a lot of EQ at mixdown after tracking with the U47 in that genre...cutting out low-mids and mids, getting airier. Especially layered BVs.

I think the C800G sounds pretty good on rap, too...I believe all the Dre stuff uses one.

But boy, it didn't hold a candle to the U47 yesterday.
Old 14th October 2002
  #15
Hi Jon,


That is one of the main reasons here in NYC, that guys stop tracking with the U47. Too much EQing after. Also i think the biggest reason that mic(Sony) became so popular here is that everyone and their cousins were tracking with the same beat up U47's from the main rental companies(Dreamhire and Toy Specialists). So no one knows what a good U47 sounds like(I've actually used some that sounded exactly like U87ai's).

What I heard was because they were always out, they started pushing these brand new/futuristic mic to all of the rappers(its also easier to replace when the U47's would turn up missing).

So next thing you know...boom!!! The Sony mic is now the most rented mic in NYC.(Go figure!!!)

They still sound ok, not great but ok. They are on my top three list of the most overatted/over priced mics:

1)Sony C800G-read all of the posts above.

2)AKG C12VR- Just that it has the C12 name on it is a travesty!!!

3)Neumann M149- Just that it has the M49 name on it is a crime!!!tut



Quote:
Originally posted by jon


I believe that. R&B is maybe a third of my workload and, contrary to the usual, I end up actually using quite a lot of EQ at mixdown after tracking with the U47 in that genre...cutting out low-mids and mids, getting airier. Especially layered BVs.

I think the C800G sounds pretty good on rap, too...I believe all the Dre stuff uses one.

But boy, it didn't hold a candle to the U47 yesterday.
Old 14th October 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Most Neve's just don't work(except Neve 1081's).

Thrill... is that beacuse of the high impedance and loading of the Neve input and output Xformers?

Shame...

I guess now that you explain all the BV and multi vox thing u guys get into i can see how appreciative you would be as it cuts out a lot of the EQing work that u would have to do with the U47. I guess cos when i have done vox its only generally been a main vox and the u47 is generally the 'GO TO' for nearly everly occassion for me. oh well... lol

Jon i will talk to tha dude and see how we go.... His Valve EQ and compressor are something else... as well..

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 14th October 2002
  #17
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
my top three list of the most overatted/over priced mics:

1)Sony C800G-read all of the posts above.

2)AKG C12VR- Just that it has the C12 name on it is a travesty!!!

3)Neumann M149- Just that it has the M49 name on it is a crime!!!tut
I agree...

About not hearing good rental U47s... about a year ago I borrowed a bunch of 47s left and right, most of them rental units, and had them all in to test at the same time. A pretty wide range of output levels, spectres and sounds. Mine, along with one other, came out on top (which was fortunate, after spending what I did on it).
Old 15th October 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: Of mic pres and mics...

Quote:
Originally posted by jon


What the hell...the radio announcer just said that using Microsoft email software lowers sperm counts...wouldn't surprise me. Just wait 'til they do a study on the effects of using Fool Tools. heh

P.S. - I won't even comment about that tape sucks thread on the main forum...

So, any other pres you'd all propose to add?
Yeah, why don't you try to find one that doesn't rely on analog tape to make it sound good . , like the Phoenix Audio DRS-2, for instance.

Rick Krizman
KrizManic Music
Old 15th October 2002
  #19
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Rick,

What would be your list of mic pres that rely on analog tape to sound good...or is the Phoenix Audio pre the only one?

I guess all the ProTools guys who use 1073s or any other pre you don't list will be awfully disappointed to learn that it's only for analog tape now.
Old 15th October 2002
  #20
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

OK, here is the list of pres we will so far be able to have on-hand to shoot out:

Neve 1073
Millenia HV-3B, M-2B and STT-1
GT Vipre
Crane Song Flamingo
Apogee Trak2
Buzz Audio
John Hardy
GML 8300
Great River (not sure which model yet)
Grace (not sure which model yet)
API 3124

Any other suggestions that should be added? I'm not too interested in Neve-alikes, unless there is a big consensus on one or two of them, and provided we can borrow one from a distributor for the test.

Now to come up with the test method. Will think on this and get back to you. There will NOT be a 200-post debate about this like on a certain DUC thread.

And since I have the studio, I can guarantee this shootout WILL happen...probably end-November when the current project finishes up.

More votes for any other pres? Let's hear from you.
Old 15th October 2002
  #21
Yes, the Phoenix sounds great with or without analog tape, but so do many many others including many of those Jon listed. It's such a subjective debate. I'm fine without tape for the most part...if I need more coloration I either reach for real iron, or something like a Crane Song HEDD or tracker or a Distressor. 80% of the time transformer's provide plenty of what I need, except for maybe electric guitars or snare.
Old 15th October 2002
  #22
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AudioGaff's Avatar
How about adding the new/updated Meek mic-pre as in the VC1QS, dbx 786, Amek/Neve CIB, Focusrite Red, and Manley.
Old 15th October 2002
  #23
Hi Jon,

I 'm kinda lost on what the shootout is about. Are you looking for a pre that sounds good with a U47? Vocals? Or are you just comparing pre's?

Thanks.



Quote:
Originally posted by jon
OK, here is the list of pres we will so far be able to have on-hand to shoot out:

Neve 1073
Millenia HV-3B, M-2B and STT-1
GT Vipre
Crane Song Flamingo
Apogee Trak2
Buzz Audio
John Hardy
GML 8300
Great River (not sure which model yet)
Grace (not sure which model yet)
API 3124

Any other suggestions that should be added? I'm not too interested in Neve-alikes, unless there is a big consensus on one or two of them, and provided we can borrow one from a distributor for the test.

Now to come up with the test method. Will think on this and get back to you. There will NOT be a 200-post debate about this like on a certain DUC thread.

And since I have the studio, I can guarantee this shootout WILL happen...probably end-November when the current project finishes up.

More votes for any other pres? Let's hear from you.
Old 16th October 2002
  #24
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Good point, thrill.

I'm thinking tentatively about comparing pres on lead vocals using my 47 and the C800G.

I have a few vocalists in mind...male rock/metal, male rap, female pop, and female R&B.

The big 4 vocal situations I deal the most often with.

Two mics.

Any suggestions are welcome.
Old 16th October 2002
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

I would personally like you to add to the test:

Pheonix Audio Drs-2 which supposedly combined with your 47 should smoke for female pop

Supposedly the Sony 800 and the Avalon 737 make a good pair for RnB but I have the 737 already so I could careless...(sounds too neutral for my taste anyway)

If you were going to test a Neve Knock off I would suggest the Vintech 473 since it has the most boink for the buck right now...

Fletcher I believe is testing 6 of the new OSA pre's and Nathen has heard them as well...I believe they seem to prefer the Lundhal series so maybe you can pick one of those suckers too...

oh yeh why not throw in the the RNP if you get a hold on one...

It would also be awesome if you could record wav files of you Shootout so we could hear too!



Old 16th October 2002
  #26
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

avalon 2022 or M5 ..... stay away from the others.
Old 16th October 2002
  #27
Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
avalon 2022 or M5 ..... stay away from the others.
Curious, how can you justify that?
Old 16th October 2002
  #28
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

oh sorry ... you must have missread that ... or rather I should have been clearer ........ I ment to say stay away from the other avalon pre's ... not the other pre mentioned in the other answers.

The ad2022 and the M5 are the only ones in the avalon range that will compete with Jon's list imho. The 737 is no match.
Old 16th October 2002
  #29
Lives for gear
 
chap's Avatar
 

pres

The Vipre, of course and the unsung hero -
The Requisite PAL. I was about to toss my C12VR AND My M149(. This thing saved their lives.
Big bottom an very open top and a nice, effective compressor thrown in too.
I think I need another Vipre, PAL and Flamongo ( and a place to live)
Old 16th October 2002
  #30
I use a Flamongo on my bongo!

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