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hi end 24 track tape machine. What other gadgets?
Old 9th June 2016
  #31
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Gravit Dinchy's Avatar
 

You've all forgotten something very important....

Cotton buds and IPA.
Old 9th June 2016
  #32
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Whack Doofa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
The machine is expected Friday and comes from an incredibly clean studio. Privately owned and that guy probably was an electronics wizzard and an avid cleaner as the machine looks stock and allmost new.

We will take a look at the cards and in what shape they are. I thought the external controller has an SMPTE input wich can be set to EXT. And Motu has spdif connections wich can allso output SMPTE if enabled in the driver. So a rca rca cable between the MTR90 and the DAW and it should work? Another connection (RS232) for MMC.

Thank you on the leader tape q-tips, alcohol and all other stuff mentioned. I saw an EC-101 module ment for the MKIII. Would such a unit fit in an MKII?
The "EXT" control on the machine was for external "clocking", for instance if you had house sync all your machines would be hooked up to it so they run at the same speed.
I'm not sure about a SMPTE input on the remote. The remote can't do any external control so that input would just be readout of the timecode if anything.

I've heard the EC101 works with the MKII but can only use the "Play" signal so can't rewind or locate. I'm not sure how accurate that is but the fact that everyone used a different synchroniser is pretty telling. That said if it's very cheap it might be worth picking up but I'd look for a more established unit myself.

SPDIF wont be of any use to you as it's a digital signal. You need an analogue SMPTE output.

EDIT to add: You could get your DAW to chase the tape machine with your set up as it is, assuming the MOTU has a SMPTE input? Once you have striped your tape you can feed that SMPTE/EBU back into the MOTU/DAW which will then chase that timecode. The good thing about that is it locks extremely quickly.
This is really the "quick and dirty" method as you are handing over your DAWs clocking to the tape machine's transport. I'm sure you can imagine, due to small variances in the tape speed that is not ideal at all. But it works.
Old 9th June 2016
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
Indeed. Quite a difference. But if the amp and speakers (of the listener) are too bad. The fast transients will probably not show.
You just bought a 2" machine you don't know how to use, but you ignore sonic improvements because listeners' systems aren't good enough to hear them?
Old 9th June 2016
  #34
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Lumbergh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack Doofa View Post
... This is really the "quick and dirty" method as you are handing over your DAWs clocking to the tape machine's transport. I'm sure you can imagine, due to small variances in the tape speed that is not ideal at all. But it works.
Isn't chasing the SMPTE stripe intended to compensate for the effects of wow/flutter/tape stretch/etc. during transfers? If a frame represents 40ms of audio it doesn't matter if it takes 38 or 42ms to pass the head, shouldn't the DAW still read it as 40ms?

Sync is confusing
Old 9th June 2016
  #35
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Whack Doofa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumbergh View Post
Isn't chasing the SMPTE stripe intended to compensate for the effects of wow/flutter/tape stretch/etc. during transfers? If a frame represents 40ms of audio it doesn't matter if it takes 38 or 42ms to pass the head, shouldn't the DAW still read it as 40ms?

Sync is confusing
No, you would lose sync if it did that. The DAW will follow varispeed moves too.
Although wow & flutter are relatively slow in comparison to jitter, so how much of an issue it is can be argued. In reality I've never heard a problem doing it this way, and you can negate this to some degree by locking the tape transport to an outside sync like a black burst house generator.
Haha, yea it can get very confusing quite quickly!
Old 10th June 2016
  #36
Gear Addict
 

To the op - If you are a little underwhelmed with the sound of your Otari when set up and you ever wanted to, getting Flux Magnetics heads installed will take its sound to as good as most, its heads are the big weakness of the machine, this is according to John Klett, the guy knows!
Old 10th June 2016
  #37
You definitely need an alignment tape, no question mark there. As far as syncing your 2" to your DAW do a search on GS, this has been covered almost a million times here.
Old 10th June 2016
  #38
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Is endless analog and clasp no more? I had been thinking about that system
Old 10th June 2016
  #39
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
You definitely need an alignment tape, no question mark there. As far as syncing your 2" to your DAW do a search on GS, this has been covered almost a million times here.
Ditto. I'll add that there's a "right" and a "wrong" way to sync the two together. The "right" way necessitates using the DAW as master, preferably with black burst as the clock master. Note: there is a difference between clocked and resolved.
Old 10th June 2016
  #40
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Swurveman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravit Dinchy View Post
You've all forgotten something very important....

Cotton buds and IPA.
Yep, much better now with constant software driver, firmware updates and compatibility with OS's and every other clumsy transition, not to mention the bazillion converter choices and comparability issues/understanding PC/MAC interfaces which all ends in slammed/limited ear fatiguing crap.
Old 11th June 2016
  #41
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravit Dinchy View Post
You've all forgotten something very important....

Cotton buds and IPA.
stick the cotton in your ears and kick back and relax with an nice cold India Pale Ale.

Old 11th June 2016
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack Doofa View Post
The "EXT" control on the machine was for external "clocking", for instance if you had house sync all your machines would be hooked up to it so they run at the same speed.
I'm not sure about a SMPTE input on the remote. The remote can't do any external control so that input would just be readout of the timecode if anything.

I've heard the EC101 works with the MKII but can only use the "Play" signal so can't rewind or locate. I'm not sure how accurate that is but the fact that everyone used a different synchroniser is pretty telling. That said if it's very cheap it might be worth picking up but I'd look for a more established unit myself.

SPDIF wont be of any use to you as it's a digital signal. You need an analogue SMPTE output.

EDIT to add: You could get your DAW to chase the tape machine with your set up as it is, assuming the MOTU has a SMPTE input? Once you have striped your tape you can feed that SMPTE/EBU back into the MOTU/DAW which will then chase that timecode. The good thing about that is it locks extremely quickly.
This is really the "quick and dirty" method as you are handing over your DAWs clocking to the tape machine's transport. I'm sure you can imagine, due to small variances in the tape speed that is not ideal at all. But it works.
Motu has an SMPTE generator in it's 424 driver. This can output over an SPDIF output turning it to analog I suppose. As SMPTE is a beep right? (This is all in the manual).

If db25 RS232 can be connected to usb (these things are very cheap) and the signal can controll MMC it might work. Now SMPTE is provided by the MOTU driver and MMC over the RS232 . It's worth a shot.
If that doesn't work adding a MOTU timepiece AV would provide RS232 to the Otari.
Old 11th June 2016
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
You just bought a 2" machine you don't know how to use, but you ignore sonic improvements because listeners' systems aren't good enough to hear them?
My remark wasn't meant like that. Please reread my Original message. It's not that hard.
Old 11th June 2016
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
Motu has an SMPTE generator in it's 424 driver. This can output over an SPDIF output turning it to analog I suppose. As SMPTE is a beep right? (This is all in the manual).

If db25 RS232 can be connected to usb (these things are very cheap) and the signal can controll MMC it might work. Now SMPTE is provided by the MOTU driver and MMC over the RS232 . It's worth a shot.
If that doesn't work adding a MOTU timepiece AV would provide RS232 to the Otari.
trust me, it's not going to work. Adding a timepiece av will only give you song position not speed. You will need that also. Otherwise your audio will drift pretty quickly. You do need position also. There are a few methods that can get you reliable sync, One with a black burst generator and machine synchronizers is the most complex, the next method getting a machine synchronizer on the MTR 90 and make it chase your daw is simpler, you just need the synchronizer and the cables and you do need something like an MTP AV for position. The third way is with something like a rosendahl nano sync , but you still need something for position, like an MTP AV.
Old 13th June 2016
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Whack Doofa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
Motu has an SMPTE generator in it's 424 driver. This can output over an SPDIF output turning it to analog I suppose. As SMPTE is a beep right? (This is all in the manual).

If db25 RS232 can be connected to usb (these things are very cheap) and the signal can controll MMC it might work. Now SMPTE is provided by the MOTU driver and MMC over the RS232 . It's worth a shot.
If that doesn't work adding a MOTU timepiece AV would provide RS232 to the Otari.
Yes SMPTE is a sequence of beeps. Sounds identical to a ZX Spectrum data cassette!
SPDIF isn't an analogue connection, it's digital so that's no help at all I'm afraid. Weird of MOTU to do that to be honest given SMPTE is an analogue only "thing".
Can't the MOTU output the SMPTE out another analogue output?

As Musiclab says the Timepiece isn't suitable. Machine control is very different and specific to each machine. It's completely different signal and wiring so you would need to find a box that can output Otari MTR-90II control signals and the correctly made cable. A timeline Lynx (Lynx2 or Microlynx) is the kind of thing you want, and probably someone that can help you make up the cable.

Either that or see if the MOTU can read back SMPTE and chase it. If so you can do it that way, but as already described it's not really the right way to do it, even though it will work for you.

EDIT Just to clarify, the machine control we are talking about is NOT Midi Machine Control or MMC, unfortunately. That would be significantly easier if it was.
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