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De essing tips!
Old 8th February 2007
  #1
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Killen View Post
You Knighted,

The final way is to just do volume rides on the fader or volume automation. Time consuming but still effective

Hope that works for you

Kevin
A pretty cool trick is to use the trim plugin and automate the volume of that one. Or the way Kenny Goia (Produceher) describes it on the duc .... set the trim value to -3/ -4 or -5 db depending and then automate the bypass.

The advantage of using the trim plugin to tweak de-essing is that you are not hampered with automation on the track and the regular volume fader is availabe for regular automation rides.
Old 8th February 2007
  #2
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Some tricks maybe worth playing with:

Kill your esses at the source: a singer will project esses from one side of their mouth more than others - identify with the back of your hand, and then angle the mic away. Maybe try the pencil taped to the mic trick. Or sing over the mic, not into it. Or get a better mic - chinese stuff is bad for essing.

Some plugin dessers let you hear the side chain. Clone a track, and create just a side chain track (nothing but the esses you want to remove). Now - you have a visual reference of where your esses are. Maybe use a spectrum analyser to identify the peak frequency.

Using that visual reference, loop each ess and find the problem frequencies with your best linear phase parametric eq plugin. Record an automation track, so the parametric just targets the esses specifically as required. Each one can be customised to do the least damage.

Or - maybe the esses aren't that bad, but they are playing havoc with a reverb. Use the desser plugin on the reverb send only.

Maybe use a desser to kill finger squeaks on guitar.

Probably other tricks too, but I've had too much Jim Beam.
Old 8th February 2007
  #3
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SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

Or just buy a dBx 902 De-esser and walk away.
Old 8th February 2007
  #4
Use volume automation. Dont use a de-esser unless its the very very last option you have.
Id re track and get the singer to practice their "S" sounds before recording them again though.

Eck
Old 8th February 2007
  #5
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One thing I've noticed is that if the singer under pronounces their S's, it tends to create more problems than if they just sing them normally and dare I say, proudly? If they under pronounce them, the tendency is to add a bunch of high end to get them back and you end up with a really sharp vocal and still no S's.

I think Dessers are good in moderation, but choosing the corner frequency can be tricky from singer to singer. They might be offensive at 4000Hz on one singer and at 8000Hz on another. The mic also has a lot to do with it. A U87 is going to have more sibilance around 5-6kHz, where the SM7 is going to have a little more down around 3.5-4.5kHz. This is all part of matching a mic up to a vocalist. Currently, I'm working on a few songs for a female singer and she has this thin sounding, yet pretty, little voice and she sounds amazing on a U87ai. Never thought in a million years that that mic would have been the one for a bright female voice, but whatever works.

-Aaron
Old 8th February 2007
  #6
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SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec View Post
One thing I've noticed is that if the singer under pronounces their S's, it tends to create more problems than if they just sing them normally and dare I say, proudly? If they under pronounce them, the tendency is to add a bunch of high end to get them back and you end up with a really sharp vocal and still no S's.

I think Dessers are good in moderation, but choosing the corner frequency can be tricky from singer to singer. They might be offensive at 4000Hz on one singer and at 8000Hz on another. The mic also has a lot to do with it. A U87 is going to have more sibilance around 5-6kHz, where the SM7 is going to have a little more down around 3.5-4.5kHz. This is all part of matching a mic up to a vocalist. Currently, I'm working on a few songs for a female singer and she has this thin sounding, yet pretty, little voice and she sounds amazing on a U87ai. Never thought in a million years that that mic would have been the one for a bright female voice, but whatever works.

-Aaron


If you do round up a dBx 902, throw in some THAT VCA's. You'll actually look for reasons to de-ess.
Old 8th February 2007
  #7
Old 8th February 2007
  #8
Lately I've been using the Dyn3 plugin with the HPF set to 7kHz. Works very good.... Hardcore de-essing using the attack, release, ratio, knee and LPF knob
Old 8th February 2007
  #9
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts View Post
A pretty cool trick is to use the trim plugin and automate the volume of that one. Or the way Kenny Goia (Produceher) describes it on the duc .... set the trim value to -3/ -4 or -5 db depending and then automate the bypass.

The advantage of using the trim plugin to tweak de-essing is that you are not hampered with automation on the track and the regular volume fader is availabe for regular automation rides.
Unfortunately, after discovering this nifty trick, I realized that there is a considerable delay on plugin rides and plugin bypass moves.

You can try and shift it after the fact though, but it's kind of clumsy.

The problem is that Ssss are very short. So a delay or latency problem will cause it to miss the Ssss altogether.



Keep an eye out. Someone I know has been making PT videos, and De-Essing may be on his list.
Old 8th February 2007
  #10
Baz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec View Post
where the SM7 is going to have a little more down around 3.5-4.5kHz.
-Aaron
I've been lucky in that I rarely encounter sib probs with this mic.
Old 8th February 2007
  #11
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher View Post
Unfortunately, after discovering this nifty trick, I realized that there is a considerable delay on plugin rides and plugin bypass moves.

You can try and shift it after the fact though, but it's kind of clumsy.

The problem is that Ssss are very short. So a delay or latency problem will cause it to miss the Ssss altogether.



Keep an eye out. Someone I know has been making PT videos, and De-Essing may be on his list.
Righteo. That's why I switched from using automation to processing the esses in audiosuite, with eq or level or both.
Old 8th February 2007
  #12
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher View Post
The problem is that Ssss are very short. So a delay or latency problem will cause it to miss the Ssss altogether.
hmmmm .... tried that just now in a pretty heavy session with the trim plugin ... both with automating the gain and the bypass ..... not seeing that latency problem here.
Old 9th February 2007
  #13
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindell View Post
Lately I've been using the Dyn3 plugin with the HPF set to 7kHz. Works very good.... Hardcore de-essing using the attack, release, ratio, knee and LPF knob
Do you mean the new Digi Dyn 3 De-esser, or the comp/limiter?

The only software de-esser that ever works for me is the Waves [which I am trying really hard not to use !!!!], and I've tried all kinds of plugs/techniques/sidechain/slice-dice-puree approaches.

All the software seems to go at the same way. There's got to be a better approach...

John
Old 9th February 2007
  #14
Old 9th February 2007
  #15
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

If youve got the time, do it by your own hands, in the wave or with automation. If theres one s that is still awfull, copy another s thats sounding good, imo.
Old 9th February 2007
  #16
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Steve MacMillan's Avatar
 

I use ProTools HD.

I agree that any plug-in gain automation will not be accurate enough for proper de-essing, but the main fader is. You can buss your vocal to an aux fader, and use the channel's main fader for de-essing. This sounds the best.

I think the quickest approach is to set a de-esser plug-in so that it is never too much de-essing on the small stuff. And then gain back the esses that are still too big with the AudioSuite gain plug-in.

STeve
Old 10th February 2007
  #17
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts View Post
hmmmm .... tried that just now in a pretty heavy session with the trim plugin ... both with automating the gain and the bypass ..... not seeing that latency problem here.
Try this…

Print a 1kHz sine wave (signal generator) for a few bars.

Put a Trim plugin on that track and automate it to reduce a whole bunch.

Automate the plugin on and off a few times.

Bus the output to another bus and record it.

Notice the difference in timing.

Now try it with regular fader automation instead.

It should be much quicker.

I'm curious if I'm the only one. I don't think I am though.
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