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Apogee 16adx impression
Old 7th February 2007
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Apogee 16adx impression

I recently tried out the Apogee 16adx and they were really smoothe sounding but as far as being a good converter I thought they were terrible. It's like running all of your audio through some vintage tube pre's that you're stuck with. I couldn't get mixes to cut regardless of how much eq I added. Why would such an expensive converter veer away from the truth, the logic makes no sense. And the color is in no way comparable to great analog tape color I did not see it as a viable replacement for analog tape, maybe a poor mans analog tape. A real pro would use analog tape for color and then the most truthfull converter affordable to capture it, the 16adx hoopla and logic used to defend it baffles me!
Old 7th February 2007
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
I recently tried out the Apogee 16adx and they were really smoothe sounding but as far as being a good converter I thought they were terrible. It's like running all of your audio through some vintage tube pre's that you're stuck with. I couldn't get mixes to cut regardless of how much eq I added. Why would such an expensive converter veer away from the truth, the logic makes no sense. And the color is in no way comparable to great analog tape color I did not see it as a viable replacement for analog tape, maybe a poor mans analog tape. A real pro would use analog tape for color and then the most truthfull converter affordable to capture it, the 16adx hoopla and logic used to defend it baffles me!



Sounds like someone is trolling for a fight..... lol

Let's just say that I disagree with your take but to each his or her own.
Old 7th February 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I couldn't get mixes to cut regardless of how much eq I added. \
And you're sure the problem was the converters?

Quote:
Why would such an expensive converter veer away from the truth, the logic makes no sense.
And what point of comparison did you have that told you that the converter veered so far away from the truth?

And which converter were you using? The AD16X or the DA16X?

-Duardo
Old 7th February 2007
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

It's just a little agravating when you come to the supposed forum of pro's and all you hear about is the holy grail of converters being the Apogee 16adx and then come to find out they color the hell out your source. That's bothersome to me and the myth or hype needs some hefty balance. Though I called them terrible I only meant it in the fact that it's a deliberate color box designed purposely to warm up your sound and I disagree with that being a good philosophy for converter design. If you like their color then cool but too many people refer to them as accurate or clear sounding on this board and that needs to be clarified to help would be converter purchasers.
Old 7th February 2007
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
And you're sure the problem was the converters?


And what point of comparison did you have that told you that the converter veered so far away from the truth?

And which converter were you using? The AD16X or the DA16X?

-Duardo

I was using the AD16x my point of comparison was a line level source straight from a Marantz cd player then burned to a cd through the computer. I played with the converters for almost a couple months and had some Myteks to compare them too.
Old 7th February 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
It's just a little agravating when you come to the supposed forum of pro's and all you hear about is the holy grail of converters being the Apogee 16adx and then come to find out they color the hell out your source. That's bothersome to me and the myth or hype needs some hefty balance. Though I called them terrible I only meant it in the fact that it's a deliberate color box designed purposely to warm up your sound and I disagree with that being a good philosophy for converter design. If you like their color then cool but too many people refer to them as accurate or clear sounding on this board and that needs to be clarified to help would be converter purchasers.


Hey, if you don't like it I'll send you 3 US postal money orders for $2300 and take it off your hands ASAP.

PLEASE sell it to me, as I have been looking for a 2nd hand one for awhile now!!!

PM me if you want to do it. I am NOT joking!!
Old 7th February 2007
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
I was using the AD16x my point of comparison was a line level source straight from a Marantz cd player then burned to a cd through the computer. I played with the converters for almost a couple months and had some Myteks to compare them too.
So you had the Apogee's for "almost a couple months" and the only thing you put through them was a Marantz CD player? And you are sure that this was really a good test to base your opinion on?

Look man I am not saying that you are not right in your take, they might just not be for you....

The mistake you are making is that you came to a forum to find a holy grail for anything. For ME in MY room for the music that I produce they are a great unit but WTF does that have to do with YOU in YOUR room for the music YOU produce? Nothing at all.
Old 7th February 2007
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Hey, if you don't like it I'll send you 3 US postal money orders for $2300 and take it off your hands ASAP.

PLEASE sell it to me, as I have been looking for a 2nd hand one for awhile now!!!

PM me if you want to do it. I am NOT joking!!
I sent it back by the way two cheers for Mercenary audio they take care of people!
Old 7th February 2007
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
So you had the Apogee's for "almost a couple months" and the only thing you put through them was a Marantz CD player? And you are sure that this was really a good test to base your opinion on?

Look man I am not saying that you are not right in your take, they might just not be for you....

The mistake you are making is that you came to a forum to find a holy grail for anything. For ME in MY room for the music that I produce they are a great unit but WTF does that have to do with YOU in YOUR room for the music YOU produce? Nothing at all.
There was nothing I could say that would appease you no matter what my testing methods and chain of recording was, you were setting the stage from the get go to discredit my opinion or cast doubt on it's merit.

I had it for two months and tried all of my neuman mics, Avalon M5, Neve pre's, API pre's, 990's you name it I tried a billion different test.
Old 7th February 2007
  #10
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
i have the 16 Xs AD/DA and i can say they wont get in the way of your punch

if the soft limit is on there will be some things that might sound different , but...... With the soft limit off these are clean converters

When i track drums i use the soft limit and they sound punchy and real

soft limit can work for mix down to sometimes



Old 7th February 2007
  #11
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stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post

I had it for two months and tried all of my neuman mics, Avalon M5, Neve pre's, API pre's, 990's you name it I tried a billion different test.
What do you normally track to ?



Old 7th February 2007
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post
i have the 16 Xs AD/DA and i can say they wont get in the way of your punch

if the soft limit is on there will be some things that might sound different , but...... With the soft limit off these are clean converters

When i track drums i use the soft limit and they sound punchy and real

soft limit can work for mix down to sometimes



Good point... I forgot about soft limit, I don't use it at all. That could account for the "color" that brokemusician3 is hearing.
Old 7th February 2007
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

I've got a mix plus system and a 002 but I did most of my listening with the 002 set up, but really it has nothing to do with what I recorded it to because the Myteks were very accurate sounding to me with the same recording set up.

The Apogee's at first glance have this gorgeous creamy type of sound that at first I was like wow but it's like fools gold because in a mix I was always fighting that creamy sound. It's a color box plain and simple please someone just admitt it. What you put in is not what you get out and that in my opinion is backwards for converters. I can see it for pre amps, compressors etc.. but not converters.
Old 7th February 2007
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
There was nothing I could say that would appease you no matter what my testing methods and chain of recording was, you were setting the stage from the get go to discredit my opinion or cast doubt on it's merit.

I had it for two months and tried all of my neuman mics, Avalon M5, Neve pre's, API pre's, 990's you name it I tried a billion different test.
Hey man, I think you are completely and totally missing my point. The whole point is that your premise is wrong, you are coming to a forum looking for The Holy Grail of anything and that is not going to work.

I really dig my Apogee units, they are some of the best converters I have ever used, as good as the HEDD 192 that I had. As a matter of fact they are so good I found the HEDD to be redundant in my set up and sold it off..... but that does not mean you have to like the 16X stuff.

Who cares what I like, who cares what anyone likes, what do YOU like... THAT is my point. Instead of coming in with guns a blaz'n just accept that the AD16X is not for you... I accept that it is not for you, what is wrong with that? (Oh and what style of music are you working on? Just wondering)

Rock on man....
Old 7th February 2007
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
I've got a mix plus system and a 002 but I did most of my listening with the 002 set up, but really it has nothing to do with what I recorded it to because the Myteks were very accurate sounding to me with the same recording set up.

The Apogee's at first glance have this gorgeous creamy type of sound that at first I was like wow but it's like fools gold because in a mix I was always fighting that creamy sound. It's a color box plain and simple please someone just admitt it. What you put in is not what you get out and that in my opinion is backwards for converters. I can see it for pre amps, compressors etc.. but not converters.
THAT IS MY POINT...... YOU can see color for preamps, comps etc but not converters.... how can you make that judgment for me or anyone else? I don't hear the Apogee as a color piece but so what if it is? It works for me, it doesn't for you no big deal. No reason to come in fighting man, it's all good.
Old 7th February 2007
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Good point... I forgot about soft limit, I don't use it at all. That could account for the "color" that brokemusician3 is hearing.
I only tried the soft clip compression for a few seconds and wasn't very impressed with it and that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about the company attempts eagerly to affect or color the sound you put in and I disagree with the philosophy of purposely affecting the sound with a converter. What I put in should come back out, that's all a converter is supposed to do in an ideal world IMO.
Old 7th February 2007
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
I don't hear the Apogee as a color piece but so what if it is? It works for me, it doesn't for you no big deal. No reason to come in fighting man, it's all good.
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying. The intent is not to ruffle anyone's feathers but to give a side that seems to be missing or drowned out by all the fervor and hype.
Old 7th February 2007
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying. The intent is not to ruffle anyone's feathers but to give a side that seems to be missing or drowned out by all the fervor and hype.
It not hype dude, it is opinions.



Your opinion is that you don't like it, my opinion is that I do, who is right? Of course no one is, an opinion is not black and white.

Yes on the whole most folks have the opinion that the AD-16X and the DA-16X are great units, but that is not written in stone. If someone comes to this forum or any forum and buys a piece of gear based on my ears they get what they deserve. LOFL!
Old 7th February 2007
  #19
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drumkideric's Avatar
 

Exactly, it's not hype. If you don't like the AD-16x then don't use it. For the rest of us who have them and love them, we will continute to use this top of the line converter.
Old 7th February 2007
  #20
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying.
mabe.... but...

Here people are encouraged to try a piece of gear before they buy it,,,, because everyones opinion will be different.


what converters are you going to use now ?





Old 7th February 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
Thread #12,457,623 proving that trying to evaluate gear on the basis of the blowhards who troll these forums really is an exercise in futility....
Old 7th February 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying. The intent is not to ruffle anyone's feathers but to give a side that seems to be missing or drowned out by all the fervor and hype.
There is no hype sounding the 16x series. You tried it, you don't like it... fair enough, but you seem awfully persistant in your attempts to convince other people despite the fact that they have arrived at their own informed opinions and conclusions based on listening with their own ears.

You can feel happy that you've joined the ranks of a select few, just like those who don't like the neve sound or SSL consoles. But the absolute bottom line is that Apogee converters have been used and are being used on some absolutely top notch and superb sounding productions. The proof is in the pudding, as they say... and if you can't make great music and great sounding productions with apogee converters, there isn't a piece of gear on this planet that can save you.

The real issue at hand, is why you are baffled at the responses. Your opinion is being discredited purely on the basis that people have used their own ears and decided for themselves. Some internet bandid with 13 posts (8 of which are the persistant yet futile attempt to slander a companies name) isn't going to hold ANY weight on my opinion of apogee converters when I have used my own ears and formed my own opinion. Thats why I can happily say that every word you speak is utter tripe.
Old 7th February 2007
  #23
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Context is king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying. The intent is not to ruffle anyone's feathers but to give a side that seems to be missing or drowned out by all the fervor and hype.
With all due respect, perhaps SOMEONE may appreciate your post, but you don't seem to provide much of a context, not much of a comaprison or rational behind your statement, hence not much value.

In fact, it sort of comes off as a mere moan or worse, some troll agenda.

Not too many people around here respect that sort of post. I'd sugest providing solid context to WHY you have your opinion if you value what we think...and since you posted, I'm guessing you do or have a reason.

(And after a big 13 posts, you can't expect many of us to JUST take your word for it.)

Hey, just my opinion, like yours (I'm basing my opinion off the fact that I have no idea who you are, how good your ears are or any history to evaluate your statement...context).

Since all postings are subjective, I've learned to respect a post that provides context above all and then after that, I've learned to evaluate opinions based on people who's track record I've grown to respect.

For what it's worth. Your opinion is valued, but you'll get more "ooomph" if you give us more information to base it from.

-a
Old 7th February 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokemusician3 View Post
I only tried the soft clip compression for a few seconds and wasn't very impressed with it and that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about the company attempts eagerly to affect or color the sound you put in and I disagree with the philosophy of purposely affecting the sound with a converter. What I put in should come back out, that's all a converter is supposed to do in an ideal world IMO.
Yeah, and people said the same thing about compressors and pres in the "old days" and look at the CRAP they came out with in the 80s and 90s -- ESPECIALLY consoles !! It took awhile for people to realize that "more accurate" just did not sound musical, even though the waveforms seem perfect using fancy testing equipment.

Music IS color! Without it, then it's very clinical and boring sounding. "Polished turds" I think is what they are called.

You could say the same thing about a console, that it SHOULD NOT have color in the sound. But look at all the people still salivating over Trident A range or large Neve consoles. Why ? BECAUSE of the color factor!

SO what's wrong with converters having color ?
Old 7th February 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
SO what's wrong with converters having color ?
FWIW i kept my 16XDA because of its relative transaparency (compared to digi 192). as far as i could tell, it imparted very little color and the stereo image was left pretty dang intact when compared to the analog source.

different strokes i guess...
Old 7th February 2007
  #26
Here for the gear
 

apogee converters

Don't you think your converter is faulty?Have you tried another one to compare?
That's weird because I just changed my rig and after 2 months testing converters I found out that the apogee da and ad 16X ( not the rosetta 800) were marvelous!

It sounded way better at 96 than a Motu HD at 196 for example.

Just try another unit...
peace
s
Old 7th February 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
It's just a little agravating when you come to the supposed forum of pro's and all you hear about is the holy grail of converters being the Apogee 16adx and then come to find out they color the hell out your source.
The AD16X is well-respected around here, but if "all you hear" is that they're the holy grail of converters you've probably only read a few threads here, since there's nothing close to a consensus on the matter.

Quote:
Though I called them terrible I only meant it in the fact that it's a deliberate color box designed purposely to warm up your sound and I disagree with that being a good philosophy for converter design.
I'm afraid you are plain wrong here. Nobody can convince you that it's not colored if that's the way you hear it, but it was absolutely not designed with color or to warm up your sound. And while I haven't compared it to the Mytek you did, I would say that it's among the most transparent converters I've ever used, and easily the most transparent I've ever listened to in any sort of blind test.

Quote:
I only tried the soft clip compression for a few seconds and wasn't very impressed with it and that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about the company attempts eagerly to affect or color the sound you put in and I disagree with the philosophy of purposely affecting the sound with a converter
By nature compression will always color the sound to a degree, so I wouldn't judge the quality of a converter based on the compression built into it.

Quote:
Someone reading these forums who's looking into purchasing a top notch converter might really appreciate what I'm saying. The intent is not to ruffle anyone's feathers but to give a side that seems to be missing or drowned out by all the fervor and hype
The part of what you've said that's the most valuable is that you bought it, tried it out, and returned it because you didn't like the way it sounds. The fact that not everyone agrees on the relative quality of any piece of gear is nothing new. The best way to figure out what you like for yourself is to try it out for yourself. I sincerely hope that nobody who is using the AD16X (or any piece of gear for that matter) and is happy with it would be swayed by one person's opinion they read online. Trust your ears.

-Duardo
Old 7th February 2007
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

To call the Apogee 16 adx clear or neutral is b.s yea maybe compared to some other converter. I think a lot of these companies are purposely trying to warm up the sound with their converters, like I tried that ADI-2 converter and that thing was twice as bad as the Apogee but sure enough there are a thousand people on this forum who would sware how clear they are.

What happened is word got out that digital is cold so all these manufacturers are trying to fix that by warming up the sound with their conversion.

Call the Apogee's great call them whatever you want but please don't call them clear, accurate, neutral etc. because that's just not so.
Old 7th February 2007
  #29
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Are we discussing your test of a converter with the analog output of a CD player ??

Am i the only one who sees the problem with this ??

Hold two combs in front of your eyes and then complain you cant see clearly !!

Try the Apogge as it is intended...on a live source...not something that has been chopped into 44.1 pieces...and poorly recombined.
Prerecoded digital information is the worst source to check converters.

Reminds me of the customer who wanted to return a CD recorder...because the CD had noise...when he transferred from cassette

Last edited by MIKEHARRIS; 7th February 2007 at 08:02 PM.. Reason: spellcheck
Old 7th February 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 

I've never used th ADX series, but I honestly find the Rosetta's colored in a "thick" sort of way. There's a smoothness to it that 75% of the time I really like, but many times wish it wasn' there.

Great boxes though...and it really depends how it fits into your sytem because they become part of your chain as they're not "neutral".
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