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Pendulum audio PL2 alternatives Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 8th April 2016
  #1
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Pendulum audio PL2 alternatives

Hello, I´m thinking to get a Pendulum Audio PL2 limiter to put next my Api summing box. I choose that limiter to get controled the peaks on my mixes. The requirements of that kind of boxes is fast transient attack and release, that controls the peaks, a higher threshold value, due I usually drives the Api so hard, reaching levels of +20 dBu.

The pendulum fulfills all the requirements, a very fast attack/release, and a threshold that limits all above the +22 dBu, letting me to control the peaks, without compress so much, letting the music breath, and only acting over peaks.

Did you know other limiters as the Pendulum for compare and get the best for me....

Best wishes!!
Old 8th April 2016
  #2
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You could sell the comp and get the RND Portico ii Master Buss Compressor/Limiter.

There's also the Rockruepel LIMIT.ONE. It's fresh and RMS, but I personally can't tell ya much about it.
Old 8th April 2016
  #3
1178
Chandler Zener limiter maybe I'm not sure if it's fast enough
Daking fet 2 limiter is fast 250 microseconds attack Daking FET II Compressor/Limiter - Vintage King Audio
Old 8th April 2016
  #4
x2 Pendulum Quartet II Mercenary Edition
Old 8th April 2016
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
You could sell the comp and get the RND Portico ii Master Buss Compressor/Limiter.

There's also the Rockruepel LIMIT.ONE. It's fresh and RMS, but I personally can't tell ya much about it.
The Rupert Neve seems to be amazing!!!
Old 8th April 2016
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseUTB View Post
1178
Chandler Zener limiter maybe I'm not sure if it's fast enough
Daking fet 2 limiter is fast 250 microseconds attack Daking FET II Compressor/Limiter - Vintage King Audio
What are the maximum thresholds?
Old 8th April 2016
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrecords View Post
The Rupert Neve seems to be amazing!!!
Yes.

And you know I might still cap it with a PL-2 on top.
The limiter on the RND is complex, but it's a little more of a soft-clip.
If you really want to get that loud sound you could put the total brick-wall limiter on top.

Varimu peak comp-->RND RMS comp-->RND soft-clip limiter--->PL-2 brickwall limiter.

That's a good mastering chain. If you're doing mastering, you'll need the PL-2. If you're not, then you probably don't absolutely need the brickwall limiting.

The two modern-analog Brick-wall Limiters really are the Pendulum PL-2 and the new Rockruepel LIMIT.ONE. Does any body know of any others?
Old 8th April 2016
  #8
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Why would you NOT get the PL2? That thing sounds so good it will never leave your mix bus.
Old 8th April 2016
  #9
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What about the Maselec mpl2?
Old 8th April 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSilver View Post
What about the Maselec mpl2?
In my mind, the PL-2 already blew that away, and I don't even consider it in the same conversation any more.

It does have that HF thing, and that's just the thing; the mpl2 doesn't have the same quality of transparency that the PL-2 does.
Old 8th April 2016
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trustyjim View Post
Why would you NOT get the PL2? That thing sounds so good it will never leave your mix bus.
I´m only trying to think in other chances, only to have a more global vision when I decide
Old 9th April 2016
  #12
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The PL-2 is great if you just want mostly clean peak reduction without changing the sound a lot. It is really useful to help control or eliminate AD clipping when you print a mix hot.

The RND MBP limiter is also useful for this purpose but it has more of a sound and isn't quite as transparent or punch preserving as the PL-2. However the combination of the two units can be pretty great for getting glue and loudness.

That being said, lately I am mostly clipping the AD off my console more than using any limiters. Its just so punchy and can really glue things together in an interesting saturated way for the right material.
Old 10th April 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio View Post
The PL-2 is great if you just want mostly clean peak reduction without changing the sound a lot. It is really useful to help control or eliminate AD clipping when you print a mix hot.

The RND MBP limiter is also useful for this purpose but it has more of a sound and isn't quite as transparent or punch preserving as the PL-2. However the combination of the two units can be pretty great for getting glue and loudness.

That being said, lately I am mostly clipping the AD off my console more than using any limiters. Its just so punchy and can really glue things together in an interesting saturated way for the right material.
Mainly I´m looking for compressors or limiters with fast attack and high threshold options. I also see that there is a DBX 160sl with VCA topologies, being so fast and with high threshold range. It combines a compressor and a limiter, it seems to be other option....
Old 10th April 2016
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrecords View Post
Mainly I´m looking for compressors or limiters with fast attack and high threshold options. I also see that there is a DBX 160sl with VCA topologies, being so fast and with high threshold range. It combines a compressor and a limiter, it seems to be other option....
I've been using the SSL bus compressor built into my console a lot with good results at very hi (max) threshold values.

Can to offer more insight into what you are looking for from the tool? Invisible peak control or actual glue/compression and envelope shaping? If you want invisible peak control then the PL-2 is the right box for the job but if you want a unit to give you glue and a compressed sound then its not the right tool.
Old 11th April 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio View Post
I've been using the SSL bus compressor built into my console a lot with good results at very hi (max) threshold values.

Can to offer more insight into what you are looking for from the tool? Invisible peak control or actual glue/compression and envelope shaping? If you want invisible peak control then the PL-2 is the right box for the job but if you want a unit to give you glue and a compressed sound then its not the right tool.
Mainly for peaks, in a second order for glueing and controlling the dynamics

I need a high threshold for only compressing the higher peaks (about +20 dBu), fast attack ( less than 1 ms) and fast recovery (about 50 ms or less)

My first option was the Api 2500 but the maximun threshold is only +10 dBu. So my next options are the Pendulum PL2, the DBX 160SL and Api 525
Old 11th April 2016
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrecords View Post
Mainly for peaks, in a second order for glueing and controlling the dynamics

I need a high threshold for only compressing the higher peaks (about +20 dBu), fast attack ( less than 1 ms) and fast recovery (about 50 ms or less)

My first option was the Api 2500 but the maximun threshold is only +10 dBu. So my next options are the Pendulum PL2, the DBX 160SL and Api 525
Definitely check the Rupert Neve Designs MBP, its a serious workhorse and can do both compression and peak limiting in one box.
Old 11th April 2016
  #17
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On second hand market the Neve is doubling the price of the DBX, does it really worths it???
Old 11th April 2016
  #18
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If you have to ask, then you don't really have a conception of what you want to do. And when I say that, I just mean all the little things a specific piece of gear brings to your mix.

You should probably demo some gear or something, get an idea of what you're going after, then you'll feel a conviction for your gear.
Old 11th April 2016
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrecords View Post
What are the maximum thresholds?
+10dbu - 10dbu so the Daking won't be usable at those levels.
The ADL 700 channels strip compressor can do +30dbu but has a line input seperate from the mic input.

The Aurora audio gtc2 +30dbu to -10 dbu maybe could work for you its fet and opto based you can combine or use the circuits separately. At those levels you could master with the gtc2, although not sure which AD converters handle +30dbu going back in
Old 12th April 2016
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
If you have to ask, then you don't really have a conception of what you want to do. And when I say that, I just mean all the little things a specific piece of gear brings to your mix.

You should probably demo some gear or something, get an idea of what you're going after, then you'll feel a conviction for your gear.
Mainly for peaks, in a second order for glueing and controlling the dynamics

I need a high threshold for only compressing the higher peaks (about +20 dBu), fast attack ( less than 1 ms) and fast recovery (about 50 ms or less)
Old 12th April 2016
  #21
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Well ride on,

The RND has extra coloring with the silk feature, and that's the type of stuff that I was talking about. It offers a lot of flexibility in the way you can dial-in the transformer saturation, yet it's still high-fi coloration (Neve is who you want doing your transformers). Then again you don't have to use Silk feature at all. Some people say that it's like getting two for the price of one.

And the limiter on the RND has some sort of complex-variable knee and release feature. But like staudio said, the PL-2 is simply better as a transparent punchy limiter. They both meet your requirements, but there are some of these other factors to consider.

The Pendulum Quartet ii ME is great for tracking drums, and it's capped of with a punchy PL-2 limiter. Some people like limiting straight on the drum tracks, and I like some clean tube on a drum head, a little comp shaping, and a punchy limiter. So I'm just saying, if you can plan your transients, then you can get some punch underneath the mix.

And I'm not a salesman for any of these companies, so I'll shut up now.
Old 12th April 2016
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
Well ride on,

The RND has extra coloring with the silk feature, and that's the type of stuff that I was talking about. It offers a lot of flexibility in the way you can dial-in the transformer saturation, yet it's still high-fi coloration (Neve is who you want doing your transformers). Then again you don't have to use Silk feature at all. Some people say that it's like getting two for the price of one.

And the limiter on the RND has some sort of complex-variable knee and release feature. But like staudio said, the PL-2 is simply better as a transparent punchy limiter. They both meet your requirements, but there are some of these other factors to consider.

The Pendulum Quartet ii ME is great for tracking drums, and it's capped of with a punchy PL-2 limiter. Some people like limiting straight on the drum tracks, and I like some clean tube on a drum head, a little comp shaping, and a punchy limiter. So I'm just saying, if you can plan your transients, then you can get some punch underneath the mix.

And I'm not a salesman for any of these companies, so I'll shut up now.
Maybe limiting on the drums bus, is one step before to retain the dynamics of the mix bus, that ensures to the compressor/limiter not to work so much. I´m also think to get a compressor for the drums and the limiter for the master bus. For example an API 2500 or DBX 160SL for the drums bus, and then the PL2 for the master buss
Old 13th April 2016
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
In my mind, the PL-2 already blew that away, and I don't even consider it in the same conversation any more.

It does have that HF thing, and that's just the thing; the mpl2 doesn't have the same quality of transparency that the PL-2 does.
Man, I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Neither one is 100% transparent but the detail was much better on the MPL2 when I demoed them both. The HF de-esser is quite amazing on a stereo mix. The Maslec MPL2 is quite a gem on the master bus after a good comp. I haven't mixed without it since I got it 6 years ago.
Old 13th April 2016
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob King View Post
Man, I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Neither one is 100% transparent but the detail was much better on the MPL2 when I demoed them both. The HF de-esser is quite amazing on a stereo mix. The Maslec MPL2 is quite a gem on the master bus after a good comp. I haven't mixed without it since I got it 6 years ago.
Obviously you feel a conviction for your purchase. So do you mix with a brickwall limiter? Or are you into mastering?

Many people comment about the transparency of the PL-2. The "detail" in both of these can't get much better. It's just that a lot of people seem to agree that the PL-2 is a little better of a design for transparency. I don't want to just blur the facts with blunt opinion here...somebody may have some specifics.

Once you start saying things like "neither one is 100% transparent," I have to wonder how much distortion you are working with. That's neither good nor bad. The thing with "detail" is that you hardly notice the PL-2 at all.

Sorry if you disagree, and maybe the PL-2 doesn't totally "blow the MPL2 out of the water" as a gem for your master buss. It's just that I have separated them in my mind for their differences.
Old 13th April 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
Obviously you feel a conviction for your purchase. So do you mix with a brickwall limiter? Or are you into mastering?

Many people comment about the transparency of the PL-2. The "detail" in both of these can't get much better. It's just that a lot of people seem to agree that the PL-2 is a little better of a design for transparency. I don't want to just blur the facts with blunt opinion here...somebody may have some specifics.

Once you start saying things like "neither one is 100% transparent," I have to wonder how much distortion you are working with. That's neither good nor bad. The thing with "detail" is that you hardly notice the PL-2 at all.

Sorry if you disagree, and maybe the PL-2 doesn't totally "blow the MPL2 out of the water" as a gem for your master buss. It's just that I have separated them in my mind for their differences.
Look man, im never on here to pick a fight. The original poster wanted to know alternatives to the Pl-2. I was merely defending the MPL-2 as a viable alternative. No, i do not mix with a brickwall limiter and my mixes have very little distortion. The fact of the matter that neither one is 100% transparent. Just scientific fact in the analog domain. Use whatever floats your boat. We all hear things differently.
Old 13th April 2016
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob King View Post
Look man, im never on here to pick a fight. The original poster wanted to know alternatives to the Pl-2. I was merely defending the MPL-2 as a viable alternative. No, i do not mix with a brickwall limiter and my mixes have very little distortion. The fact of the matter that neither one is 100% transparent. Just scientific fact in the analog domain. Use whatever floats your boat. We all hear things differently.
The truth is there is no fight intended, and this has made me rethink where I place the MPL-2 in my world of conceptions

I'm not here to sell a product or to be a know it all. I am just putting out there where I'm coming from, and I'm here to explore and continue to develop how I conceive-of and use this gear...

The PL-2 tends to be more transparent, but that's neither good nor bad. In fact a person would have to consider why they even need a transparent analog brickwall limiter, since most people take it back into the digital anyways, and digital limiting can do a superior job at this.

Just having a conversation, since it's the topic, and I'm interested.
Old 14th April 2016
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
The truth is there is no fight intended, and this has made me rethink where I place the MPL-2 in my world of conceptions

I'm not here to sell a product or to be a know it all. I am just putting out there where I'm coming from, and I'm here to explore and continue to develop how I conceive-of and use this gear...

The PL-2 tends to be more transparent, but that's neither good nor bad. In fact a person would have to consider why they even need a transparent analog brickwall limiter, since most people take it back into the digital anyways, and digital limiting can do a superior job at this.

Just having a conversation, since it's the topic, and I'm interested.
curious did you do a direct side by side comparison?
Old 14th April 2016
  #28
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I think some here mix up peak limiters and brickwall limiters..??? An Urei 1178, a Chandler Zener or Daking FET II's are not really alternatives to MPL-2 or PL-2 regarding functionality and application.
I've had the Maselec MPL-2 and the Pendulum PL-2. Kept the Pendulum as it worked better in my chain. They're both good up to reductions of 2-3dB, but soon start to distort, both of them. None of them, neither all other mentioned models, will beat digital ones like a Voxengo EL or other plugins when it comes to transparent brickwall limiting, unless someone constructs a good analogue piece with lookahead :-)
Old 14th April 2016
  #29
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Concerning transparency - the limiter circuit of the PL-2 is out of the signal path when below threshold.
Old 14th April 2016
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreªs View Post
Concerning transparency - the limiter circuit of the PL-2 is out of the signal path when below threshold.
That's what I like in PL-2.
I use it in my mastering chain since 2009.
And under 3 dBs of GR it remains clean.
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