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HD Vinyl
Old 17th March 2016
  #1
HD Vinyl

Well this looks like an interesting development...

High Definition Vinyl Will Soon Become a Market Reality
Old 17th March 2016
  #2
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Do you know if the sound has to go through a digital conversion or can it be kept fully analogue?
Old 17th March 2016
  #3
From the article:
Quote:
The HD Vinyl process, by contrast, involves a longer period perfecting the topographic, computer-generated, 3D modeling imprint before any physical manufacturing takes place. “We adjust the distance of the grooves, we correct the radial/tangential errors, and we optimize the frequencies,” Loibl continued. “You could say we ‘master’ the topographical data, which is a totally different approach.”
I also wonder if the outcome is still to be regarded as analog if the data to create it has been 3d modeled and adjusted in the computer. The topographical data must be quantized, no?
Old 17th March 2016
  #4
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I first thought it could work analog, like an inverse version of the ELP laser vinyl player. But I guess it is not possible to map a digital and then burn an analog signal. Very interesting anyway!
Old 17th March 2016
  #5
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I think the most interesting, and coolest part is that it is backwards compatible and the enduser won't need to buy a new turntable to play these new HD LPs. This is exciting news IMHO.
Old 17th March 2016
  #6
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high definition Vinyl ... what is meant by this ?? more Dynamic Range ?? higher frequency response above 15k ?? lower frequency response - for more lowend ?? Unbreakable ??
Old 18th March 2016
  #7
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side by side tests will be interesting
Old 18th March 2016
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindrive View Post
side by side tests will be interesting
"double the audio fidelity of a typical LP" sounds a bit like marketing hype to me, but who knows.
I'm more worried that if its cheaper to produce it will kill off genuinely analogue vinyl pressing plants.
Old 18th March 2016
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
"double the audio fidelity of a typical LP" sounds a bit like marketing hype to me, but who knows.
I'm more worried that if its cheaper to produce it will kill off genuinely analogue vinyl pressing plants.
No telling what the efforts will provide but, my first gut asks why we are trying to improve something that people love just the way it is? Isn't the mystique of vinyl, what sells it? the grain? the noise? the "vinyl"?
Old 18th March 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindrive View Post
No telling what the efforts will provide but, my first gut asks why we are trying to improve something that people love just the way it is? Isn't the mystique of vinyl, what sells it? the grain? the noise? the "vinyl"?

I could do without the pops and crackles myself and the closer it gets to the original master tapes the better.
The biggest appeal for me is being able to press them more cheaply. Depending on how cheaply, that could also have an impact on sales. It might even revive the business a bit.
My concern is it not being analogue, which more or less takes away the whole point- at least for me,
Old 18th March 2016
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindrive View Post
No telling what the efforts will provide but, my first gut asks why we are trying to improve something that people love just the way it is? Isn't the mystique of vinyl, what sells it? the grain? the noise? the "vinyl"?
well it's still made of vinyl - a needle still drags through the grooves, shedding plastic, handling causes scratches, etc I am sure there will still be plenty of noise for the "mystique"

but will increased dynamic range and/or frequency range "ruin" it for the mystique lovers?

I wonder if the very idea of passing through a digital stage won't "ruin" it, mystique-wise? Irrespective of 'sound' I mean. I am sure there are a lot of people, some of them right here at Gearslutz, who have already decided they are not going to like it.
Old 18th March 2016
  #12
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In terns of dynamic range, I don't see how it can much surpass a CD, so why bother with all the pops, scratches etc. No one actually likes that stuff, do they?
Old 18th March 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
well it's still made of vinyl - a needle still drags through the grooves, shedding plastic, handling causes scratches, etc I am sure there will still be plenty of noise for the "mystique"

but will increased dynamic range and/or frequency range "ruin" it for the mystique lovers?

I wonder if the very idea of passing through a digital stage won't "ruin" it, mystique-wise? Irrespective of 'sound' I mean. I am sure there are a lot of people, some of them right here at Gearslutz, who have already decided they are not going to like it.
I think thats where the whole point lies. It's sort of a "I'm listening to vinyl, i'm so cool" movement. I still have my small collection of records. I like vinyl but, I like other formats as well. I just wonder if the vinyl movement will be put off by this. People are pretty particular these days. I honestly can wait to hear them side by side. It's an interesting development.
Old 18th March 2016
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I could do without the pops and crackles myself and the closer it gets to the original master tapes the better.
The biggest appeal for me is being able to press them more cheaply. Depending on how cheaply, that could also have an impact on sales. It might even revive the business a bit.
My concern is it not being analogue, which more or less takes away the whole point- at least for me,
a friend of mine just erected a vinyl plant. The business is there. He's had no problems saying no to people. Theres that much work out there, or this digital avenue wouldn't be taken. The revival is on!

I'd guess that there won't be a terrible amount of difference, audibly. I could be wrong, completely wrong. who knows.

cost is always a good factor. Though, how much can they cut from the process on a small run?
Old 18th March 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
In terns of dynamic range, I don't see how it can much surpass a CD, so why bother with all the pops, scratches etc. No one actually likes that stuff, do they?
t's still a needle dragging through a valley. Seems to me that improvements could only be so great, right?
Still curious
Old 18th March 2016
  #16
I don't like the idea of more volume available, it's pointless having vinyl if you are just going to brickwall limit the crap out of it, the whole point of vinyl (for me) is the inceased dynamic range and limitations of the media, but on the positive side, the new vinyl could have more dynamic range, it'd be great if the new media improved sales of albums and records.
Old 18th March 2016
  #17
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what about the Laser Readers .. never touches the Vinyl ..
Old 18th March 2016
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
what about the Laser Readers .. never touches the Vinyl ..
what I read was that if you have a speck of dust on your record, the laser freaks out and the pop is much worse than it would be with a needle. Perhaps a new kind of record - sealed in clear plastic and unplayable by a needle but still analog and read by a laser - could be made?

I don't know about the sound quality, I never heard it, but this is why: I saw one of the units displayed at a recent AES. I asked how much. It was on the order of $10,000. I looked around the table and realized there were no speakers and no headphones. Absolutely no way to hear it in action. Suspicious.

Now at AES, a number of manufacturers are understandably reluctant to play their fine devices on the noisy convention floor, but they usually have a "room" somewhere where you can go hear it, and these guys did not. Anyway the laser thing has been 'out' for some time. Even at $10k, you would think there would be more people talking about how great it was.

besides, as mentioned above, perhaps that sound of the needle dragging through the valley is a big part of the 'mystique'.
Old 18th March 2016
  #19
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"sealed in clear plastic and unplayable" i took this out of context - but it sounds like a lot of people's LP Collections ... LOL just having a little fun on a friday ..
Old 18th March 2016
  #20
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At the very least this is interesting. I help run an indie label that presses vinyl, and the margins and turnaround time make that portion of the business non-profit basically. If there's a technology that can raise the margins & decrease turnaround time, that itself is worth looking in to, regardless of if it's "HD" sound or not, especially if it's backwards compatible.

I'll be keeping an eye on this.
Old 18th March 2016
  #21
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I heard the same things about the laser turntables. What did appeal to me was that you could use a remote to skip tracks. If someone could invent something you could programme, that overcomes the pops and crackles while keeping it fully analogue and cheap, we'd have a winner.
Old 18th March 2016
  #22
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High definition with the bass in mono and his poor dynamic ?

Where is superman ?

Old 19th March 2016
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
"sealed in clear plastic and unplayable" i took this out of context - but it sounds like a lot of people's LP Collections ... LOL just having a little fun on a friday ..
This has been done.
Old 19th March 2016
  #24
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I am waiting on the resurgence of MD. Surely someone will think older is better and I will be able to sell at a premium.
Old 19th March 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
What did appeal to me was that you could use a remote to skip tracks. If someone could invent something you could programme, that overcomes the pops and crackles while keeping it fully analogue and cheap, we'd have a winner.
Hmm … it seems I have heard of such a medium …
Old 19th March 2016
  #26
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If it ends up sounding too accurate, put your old worn stylus back on to reinstate the vintage sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
My concern is it not being analogue, which more or less takes away the whole point- at least for me,

There are records from as back as far as the 80s that were from either digital masters or were digitally remastered from the original.

I'm holding one in my hands right now.
Old 19th March 2016
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fay Smearing View Post
There are records from as back as far as the 80s that were from either digital masters or were digitally remastered from the original.

I'm holding one in my hands right now.
And I'm sure some of them sound amazing! But this is not the point. Point is, Vinyl is an analogue medium and one can chose to prepare for it in analogue or digital. But with HD vinyl this option seems gone.
Old 19th March 2016
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fay Smearing View Post
If it ends up sounding too accurate, put your old worn stylus back on to reinstate the vintage sound.





There are records from as back as far as the 80s that were from either digital masters or were digitally remastered from the original.

I'm holding one in my hands right now.
I know and if something was recorded digitally I don't concern myself with having to hear it on vinyl, but if it was an analogue recording, I like to hear that maintained.
Old 19th March 2016
  #29
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Yes, I feel dirty too when I know that at some point one of my records was converted to digital so that old studio recordings on tapes that have degraded over the years can end up sounding better.

I console myself by knowing I'm not a sad twat that would rather listen to something full of hiss, dropouts and other crap because I imagine that having such a rare, discerning appreciation for "pure" recordings somehow makes me special.

So of course, even if this new process makes vinyl sound better, I'll want no part of it.

Actually, I'll still mostly just listen to CD, FLAC and Dolby/DTS Blu-Ray surround, then castigate myself in the corner afterwards for my apostacy.
Old 19th March 2016
  #30
It won't fix the pops and crackles, groove modulation and is still 5 generations away from the master tape/data.

I also heard surround sound is coming back again for the 4th time.
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