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-   -   HD Vinyl (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1075009-hd-vinyl.html)

pscorbett 19th March 2016 06:11 PM

Yup, I gotta say, I agree with both sides here. Very conflicted...

IF vinyls were usually pressed from music that had been recorded to, mixed from and mastered on tape, than I can see some validity to wanting to keep the process "all analog". Realistically, this isn't the case much anymore, unless you are Tiny Telephone, or one of those types of studios who make it their focus. Hopefully, the any digital recording was done at a high sample rate, and was never down-sampled throughout the mixing and mastering process. That said, I have heard horror stories of Vinyls being cut from low quality MP3s from time to time. :facepalm:

So yes, for the few people keeping an all analog signal chain, the traditional approach might be the way to go. For anyone mastering for vinyl from digital audio, this could be a win. Or it could be a flop. Or it could be all marketing hype. Guess we'll have to wait and see! Regardless, its nice to see that there is going to be a manufacture making vinyl lathes again (or whatever you would call this machine).

Also, from that article, it doesn't seem clear what exactly the process is. Maybe the grooves are mapped and modeled into the computer, and that is merely a digital control signal. My guess is that advanced 3d modeling has a lot more depth and detail than a 16 bit PCM audio, or even 24 bit audio for that matter.

vincentvangogo 19th March 2016 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Smearing (Post 11784654)
...

I console myself by knowing I'm not a sad twat that would rather listen to something full of hiss, dropouts and other crap because I imagine that having such a rare, discerning appreciation for "pure" recordings somehow makes me special....

Do you not think that's a little patronising and rude? Not everyone buys vinyl to feel superior.

joeq 19th March 2016 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Smearing (Post 11784521)
There are records from as back as far as the 80s that were from either digital masters or were digitally remastered from the original. I'm holding one in my hands right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friedemann (Post 11784571)
And I'm sure some of them sound amazing! But this is not the point. Point is, Vinyl is an analogue medium and one can chose to prepare for it in analogue or digital. But with HD vinyl this option seems gone.

Never mind "digital masters". Even from analog masters, a large proportion of vinyl is cut through a digital delay for the look-ahead function of the lathe. The "pure" signal adjusts the spacing and the digitally delayed signal is what is actually cut into the grooves.

The more recent concern with 'analog purity' has revived interest in mulit-head tape-based look-ahead, and also on full disclosure of the process - but for literally decades nobody even thought it was worth mentioning. TONS of records were made this way and the vinyl aficionados still raved about their 'analog sound'. I find the sudden concern about a 'digital stage' to be somewhat laughable at this point. There may be a lot of reasons why people like the sound of vinyl, but I am increasingly doubtful that "lack of digital in the signal path" is really one of them.

It reminds me of those studies of so called gluten intolerance.

Friedemann 19th March 2016 10:43 PM

Joeq you got me wrong. I thought I made myself clearer. I am well aware of the use of look ahead delays in cutting and I even know that some really questionable units were and are in use. However all I wanted to say is that with this technology one cannot chose to pass digital. And for some techs and customers this is not an option. No matter if this makes any sense soundwise or not.

joeq 19th March 2016 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams (Post 11784832)
It won't fix the pops and crackles, groove modulation and is still 5 generations away from the master tape/data..

actually it will shorten the manufacturing process

After the data is 3-d mapped
Quote:

a ‘pulsed high-energy Femto-laser’ burns the audio directly onto the stamper.
so all the mother-father stuff can be skipped. Of course at this time it is just a patent filing. It seems pretty clever but the cleverer it is, the more it begs the question of why?

Quote:

All in, Rebeat and Joanneum estimate that stamper-related costs will be reduced by 50 percent, while the time required to produce a new piece of vinyl slashed by 60 percent.
if it's cheaper, it probably is going to take over - analog 'purity' or not

Timesaver800W 20th March 2016 11:27 AM

most of my best sounding vinyl is 40 years plus, why not skip this so-called hd crap and press vinyl like they used to?

Micoholic 20th March 2016 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Smearing (Post 11784654)
I console myself by knowing I'm not a sad twat that would rather listen to something full of hiss, dropouts and other crap because I imagine that having such a rare, discerning appreciation for "pure" recordings somehow makes me...

Lol - twat must be a 100% analogue word.

thenoodle 21st March 2016 02:27 AM

Pops and scratches and the initial hiss of the needle touching the surface are some of the ABSOLUTE MAGIC of vinyl. In the 50s-60's and beyond, I got to the point of knowing EVERY pop location, every scratch, every gremlin location, every slight move into distortion........ IT'S MOJO! And no two records were ever the same....or ever became scratched up the same. What would happen when a record simply became unplayable? You went out and bought another copy.

Of COURSE I expected these gremlins in vinyl and still do. From 1958 onward, I also had tape machines so I knew my tape sound was less of a war zone from my records, but c'mon, vinyl is SUPPOSED to be imperfect. And get more imperfect-er with each playing. Like a worn pair of comfortable pants.

I rolled my eyes at audiophile $2000 turntables when those started appearing. Gheez...... those guys shoulda just gone to cd..... oh, they couldn't.... cd's weren't invented. Those guys reminded me of people in the 50's who had their furniture covered in clear plastic so that the furniture wouldn't get dirty. Anyone remember sitting on those things?

At any rate, hd vinyl has me interested but there is only ONE question I see as relevant to a bunch of things. WHAT PRESSES ARE NEEDED? Will the existing 60yr-old Neumann cutters etc be what's used on the stampers/mothers? Or are we talking about a new type of press? It seems that the existing presses will work.

Which means backlogs and low-margins are still gonna be the norm.

Press/Cutter info is what we need. Maybe I'll go over to Lathe Trolls and see what they know.

sameal 21st March 2016 02:39 AM

If it generates enough interest to keep the original movement on its current path (independents starting to produce vinyl supplies) then the more the merrier i say.

Just dont stop making acetates and styli please.

joeq 21st March 2016 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friedemann (Post 11785331)
JHowever all I wanted to say is that with this technology one cannot chose to pass digital. And for some techs and customers this is not an option. No matter if this makes any sense soundwise or not.

I understand, I am just pointing out that many of these customers have already found themselves in a situation where they believe they have chosen to 'pass digital' when they actually have not. And like the test subjects secretly fed gluten, they did not break out into a rash.

There will probably always be a market for 'pure' analog. The idea of "digital contamination" will not go away any time soon. What if this new thing sounds 'better' and still sounds 'analog'? Will people refuse to accept it because they are intellectually aware it passed through a digital stage? One thing you know won't happen is that they will say: 'oh this digital contamination thing is silly, I guess what we were actually liking all along was the analog artifacts'.

This process may 'take over' simply because it should be way cheaper to produce lps, burning the grooves directly onto the stamper - bypassing all that electroplating, all those toxic chemicals and the pesky regulations about their disposal.

dinococcus 21st March 2016 09:08 AM

thera are a long time ago, the first five hundred copies was thrown in the bin because the early pressing was bad.

Today, the same process, the same machines are used and the first five hundred copies are sold.

Strange world. :facepalm:

Jim Williams 21st March 2016 04:37 PM

I used to use Record Technology in Camarrillo and Sterling for prep. Doug Sax cut my laquers at 11 am and I would drive like a BMW driver across Hollywood to get to Sterling for the 1 pm bath.

This was to capture all the edges before the laquer softened. Then I would play a fesh pressing for someone and give the copy away to them. I could never listen to the second play, it sucked. We used good carts and preamps too.

I'm so glad I don't need to do that anymore. Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

legato 21st March 2016 04:40 PM

Those were the days. gooof