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Sad news...another great NYC area studio closes its doors...
Old 31st January 2007
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
No, the reason so many people come here to make art is that THEY THINK being here will be inspiring. And for some it is; for others it's depressing, demoralizing, or just plain uninspiring.

Sometimes it just depends on what day it is.
Thank you....Thank you for stressing the "THEY THINK"...seriously...
Old 31st January 2007
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
The Bronx?

You might as well say you have a studio in Alaska. I know people who have lived in NYC for over 15 years and have never been to the Bronx(they actually think its another state like New Jersey).

Yeah but that's kind of sad, as the fact that most americans never went abroad or even own a passport. This kind of mentality anywhere leads to no good.
ps> I don't live in NYC (or the US) but I've been to The Bronxheh
Old 31st January 2007
  #63
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danasti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300 View Post
It's a ridiculous statement to those who already live in the city, of course, and need to justify their obseqious nature by defending their animal herd choices.....People who make music in the city are people who are self-proclaimed "artists", in other words, people who are concerned about finding their self-identity when not wanting to be defined by all the money they were born into...It's old and done...Take the Dave Fridmann route. Record creative bands like Mercury Rev in upstate NY, rather than gay "artists" like Daniel Powter...
No, it's just a ridiculous statement period. I don't care where you prefer to live that's ok with me. I personally find NYC to be a very inpirational place and so do many others who choose to call it home.

It really depends what you call an artist. Walking around the same East Villiage streets that Jimi Hendrix slept on for a few years waiting to be discovered. Being able hang out where Jeff Buckley was inpired, discovered and created the buzz that drove him into the stratosphere.

From Harlem to Hip-Hop to the rich history of all the Jazz greats. The eclectic, rich and diverse culture fill up every inch of my soul each day I'm fortuate to be alive here. From the amazing live venues to the fact that I can go out any night of the week and see an amazing talent perform. Just knowing that I sat at Stinger 5 years ago watching TV On The Radio play in front of about 25 people never knowing that they would achieve the fame that they did but knowing they were certainly something special.

The rich history of this city extends infinetely beyond music as I can stand in the exact spot where Washington was first sworn in as president of the United States. Or walk up the block and visit the founder of America's economic system, Alexander Hamilton's tomb.

You can call everyone on this board who enjoys residing in NYC names and hurl insults but you're the one who said that:

Quote:
'Artist' don't go to cities' 'they don't want to be recognized'.
Quote:
Anyone who insists that music needs to be made in a city are culture sluts.
Nobody ever "insisted". And what's with the continuous judgemental "name calling"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by redddog View Post

The problem too is, unlike danasti thinks, this won't change. NYC has been expanding for years and that's never going to slow.
I don't think it will completely reverse. I think it will eventually cycle around to the late 70s / early 80s housing levels. I think the market in NYC has always cycled from strong expansion to medium levels and some small pockets of recession.
Old 31st January 2007
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermionic View Post
FWIW, London is in an identical situation... Within the M25 (Greater London), the average house price is £275,000 (half a million USD...and we're talking about a basic pad here).

I've noticed a massive change just in the last 10 years or so. I used to love partying in East London and Brixton because of the bohemian people you'd meet, i.e. teachers, installation artists and suchlike. Today even Brixton, and particularly East London have become predominantly white-collar...

It's f**king depressing man... Soho used to have a hundred independent record shops, now it probably has 10 or so...and they're not exactly finding it easy...

Politicians have it within their powers to designate 'areas of cultural importance', ensuring that charitable organisations control buildings, i.e. housing associations such as The Peabody Trust. Today's politicians are busy ensuring the soul is systematically stripped out of the city by seeing to it that the few areas left are sold to big business.

Much as I adore the countryside, the city has some advantages as far as the music industry is concerned. As in the US, right-wing politicians seem to rule the roost at the moment, and these creatures are never going to have the conscience to see what these policies are doing to society...

What have the white collar ever done for society? Can you show me a statue that's been carved in honour of an Insurance Broker or Estate Agent? Thought not...




Justin

I hear you. It's the same down here in Brighton
Old 31st January 2007
  #65
Gear Maniac
 

It saddens me to see yet another studio close its doors. I'm a Producer/Engineer and I've working in NYC for over 17 years and I've seen alot of studios close their doors. I'm just happy to still be making a living.

I dont know Coyote's personal overhead and lease situation. But there are others studios in that same neighborhood or nearby remaining competitive with today's existing market. Of coarse I can only speak from personal experience.

I tried to book time there a year ago and here are my reasons for going else where.
*Yes they had a nice API. But they're running PT version 5, Mac OS 9, 888/16bit.
*The room sounded good. Not great but definetly workable.
*PRICE! THEIR RATE WAS TOO HIGH! I can get everything they offered cheaper elsewhere.

I work with indie bands whose budgets do not justify Coyote's rates. I'm sorry to see them go. In a perfect world I would have had a bigger budget, I would have brought in an HD rig and spent a week doing basic tracks there. But that's not the world I live in.

Maybe their rates were high to cover their overhead, i dont know. But I couldn't afford to work there.
Old 31st January 2007
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danasti View Post
No, it's just a ridiculous statement period. I don't care where you prefer to live that's ok with me. I personally find NYC to be a very inpirational place and so do many others who choose to call it home.

It really depends what you call an artist. Walking around the same East Villiage streets that Jimi Hendrix slept on for a few years waiting to be discovered. Being able hang out where Jeff Buckley was inpired, discovered and created the buzz that drove him into the stratosphere.

From Harlem to Hip-Hop to the rich history of all the Jazz greats. The eclectic, rich and diverse culture fill up every inch of my soul each day I'm fortuate to be alive here. From the amazing live venues to the fact that I can go out any night of the week and see an amazing talent perform. Just knowing that I sat at Stinger 5 years ago watching TV On The Radio play in front of about 25 people never knowing that they would achieve the fame that they did but knowing they were certainly something special.

The rich history of this city extends infinetely beyond music as I can stand in the exact spot where Washington was first sworn in as president of the United States. Or walk up the block and visit the founder of America's economic system, Alexander Hamilton's tomb.

You can call everyone on this board who enjoys residing in NYC names and hurl insults but you're the one who said that:





Nobody ever "insisted". And what's with the continuous judgemental "name calling"?




I don't think it will completely reverse. I think it will eventually cycle around to the late 70s / early 80s housing levels. I think the market in NYC has always cycled from strong expansion to medium levels and some small pockets of recession.
Ok, lets go through this one by one...First, by stating the word "PERIOD" after "ridiculous statement" doesn't further evince your argument for what you consider to be a "ridiculous statement". It's like in "A Few Good Men" when Demi Moore says to the judge "I STRENUOUSLY object". I understand how emotional persistence is persuasive though...

Next point....
That anyone would move to New York for music because "The rich history" and "Being able hang out where Jeff Buckley was inpired, discovered and created the buzz that drove him into the stratosphere" are for me, poor reasons....Very very unmusical, and like I said in a post before, obsequious...I would be pretty sure that people who make music under (at least songwriters) these pretenses were ****...


Last point...Danasti, you want to see what a ridiculous statment is? Check this out....


"Much as I adore the countryside, the city has some advantages as far as the music industry is concerned. As in the US, right-wing politicians seem to rule the roost at the moment, and these creatures are never going to have the conscience to see what these policies are doing to society..."

This is borderline ********....
Old 31st January 2007
  #67
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
Sort of. If you want a whole bunch of space dirt cheap where you can do anything you want and is still accesible. It's not such a bad option. Dirtbag musicians will go if they get a great recording for cheap. Maybe a Thai resturaunt will open. Sound familliar?
LMFBO.

Ahh me. De Troof hertz.

Somebody will figure out a way to do it and get away with it.

Rest assured.

Then it's just the "Limited Lottery" as to whether a 'classic/seminal' record of some sort or another is made there.

Bingo. Instant "deal with it" NYC studio vibe. As(I think) Paul Gold is suggesting...

NOT LIKE THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN THE NYC STUDIO SCENE.

Anyhoo. Great to see all the bored to tears/jaded New Yorkers get off their chairs and start wildly hurling things in defense of the joint. Kinda reminds me of certain seasons watching the Rangers at the Garden.

We(Metro NYC studio bz) started taking a beating YEARS before it hit LA, and consequently, I think there is a good chance we will exit that morass before them. At least that's what I keep telling mysef between gulps of Lagavulin.

HOHOHO.


SM.

PS. Great thread this is turning into, especially given it's somber genesis.
Old 31st January 2007
  #68
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300 View Post
Next point....
That anyone would move to New York for music because "The rich history" and "Being able hang out where Jeff Buckley was inpired, discovered and created the buzz that drove him into the stratosphere" are for me, poor reasons....Very very unmusical, and like I said in a post before, obsequious...I would be pretty sure that people who make music under (at least songwriters) these pretenses were ****...
Crash.

Dude.

CRASH.

Whatever.

Hilarious.

SM.
Old 31st January 2007
  #69
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ajcamlet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Wow...ok Mr."lets buy the property" please instruct us on how we can go out and buy a 6 story building in midtown Manhattan for around $40-50 million dollars? Just for the sake of building a studio that will struggle in todays market when you can book the majority of big name studios for an average of $60-$75 prhr(which will all go out of business eventually as well)? Not to mention dealing with the incredible high property taxes in lower Manhattan, the zoning permits, inspector licenses and any fines which they always find in new builidngs? What if they decide you need a new elevator and heating system before you reopen? That can set you back a cool $250-$300K. And there is the complaints by your rich neighbors who don't want "the wrong element" hanging around their property. Its bad for business.

Lets face it the writing was on the wall with Unique Recording Studios. They were in the 80's the top studio in NYC and they had a 25 yr lease. They built the studios over 3 floors in a building in midtown Manhattan. Who would think after all that they wouldn't get a new lease? But they didn't. Out on the street like they never existed. Now they are an afterthought.

Real Estate here is premium. Its like a NYC Oil Well or Gold.

In Brooklyn Bruce Ratner declared an Imminent Domain construction project(what a joke) to build a complex in downtown Brooklyn and got it passed(another joke).Everyone in the area has to go(including recording studios). And they ain't building no highway or a subway train stop. They are building a freaking Sports Complex with High Rises for business. Its a money project. They claim its for public interest. Look like its more private if you ask me.

The studio business here eventually will become an afterthought. And no one will notice.
those who onw the ground they sit on are the ones who will be here for the long haul. Jersey City & Hoboken are the same way. My building is on the chopping block as is every single other industrial building in hoboken. EVERY SINGLE ONE. no joke. The problem, at least in my case is that the one or two developers that own the town keep constructing THE SAME EXACT PIECE OF CRAP BUILDING ON EVERY SITE. Cookie cutter condos. its disgusting. and im probably fu*ked.

The developers own the politicians- the politicans hand properties over to developers.
Old 31st January 2007
  #70
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Paul Gold's Avatar
The Bronx would be a hard sell. Probably harder than Williamsburg 20 years ago. At least it was Avenue E or F or something. My point was that they started out where rent was cheap and built it from there. I bet you could get 1500sf for $700/mo in the not too far away Bronx. All the wholesale stuff is moving there. Hunts Point cheap veggies and hookers. A laugh a minute.
Old 31st January 2007
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
Watch that there buddy, I was born and spent my first 25 years in the Bronx

Lou it was a joke.

(I love the women in the Bronx...especially Pelham bay).

But havng a studio up there is tough. I've worked in a couple(Fordham Road,St Lawrence,Van Cortlandt) but to get out of town clients up there is near impossible. I mean Ornette Coleman's son had a studio in the heart of Harlem and trying to get a client to consider this as an option for a session was the same...and this was Harlem 80 blocks from Times Square.
Old 31st January 2007
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
The Bronx would be a hard sell. Probably harder than Williamsburg 20 years ago. At least it was Avenue E or F or something. My point was that they started out where rent was cheap and built it from there. I bet you could get 1500sf for $700/mo in the not too far away Bronx. All the wholesale stuff is moving there. Hunts Point cheap veggies and hookers. A laugh a minute.
Also no Hasidics.

Hunts Point near the highway at night is deserted and also dangerous.
Old 31st January 2007
  #73
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jomo1234's Avatar
 

What the hell is that supposed to mean???


[QUOTE=thethrillfactor;1103943]Also no Hasidics.
Old 31st January 2007
  #74
[QUOTE=jomo1234;1104042]What the hell is that supposed to mean???


Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Also no Hasidics.

Williamsburgh before it became trendy is where the Hasidic community thrived. A majority still live in Greenpoint. The point was comparing Hunts Point to 80's Williamsburgh is different. Hunts Point by the Highway at night looks a little like warehouse docks in Brooklyn with a lot of drugs.
Old 31st January 2007
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
Larrysings's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danasti View Post
It is inspiring. And yeah, that is a ridiculous statement. I'm in LIC right now. One, 3 minute stop from Grand Central Station and it sucks a big pile of ass that 6 new high rises are going up on the waterfront. McDonalds drive thrus offers a home for people to be just like everyone else.

These MC Yuppies are buying into these MC Condos at out of control prices. They even have rules where you can't hang certain things on your walls and you can't have certain colors of curtains in your windows. WTF, is there a camera in the bathroom to make sure they don't pee in the shower?

One thing to take comfort in is that eventually this bubble will burst. When it does the trendy will move out, because it's then trendy to do so. There have been alot of smaller studios opening up. It's always sad to see something end and leave us but there is something new that will follow. People will always create art and record music in NYC. For alot of us it's a truely magical place and there's really no place I'd rather be.

I'm with you bro. I just signed a 5 year lease for Deepwave and we will persevere.
The city is amazing, and I don't think I could ever get the sewer water out of my veins. It is sad though that our views in LIC across from Manhattan are slowly being eradicated (although I would love to live in one of the highrises), but hopefully we can ride with the tide and stay in business with a higher paying clientele. We all must adjust in this ever changing environment-- urban, suburban, or rural.
Old 1st February 2007
  #76
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Paul Gold's Avatar
[QUOTE=thethrillfactor;1104053]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomo1234 View Post
Williamsburgh before it became trendy is where the Hasidic community thrived. A majority still live in Greenpoint. The point was comparing Hunts Point to 80's Williamsburgh is different. Hunts Point by the Highway at night looks a little like warehouse docks in Brooklyn with a lot of drugs.
To pick nits the Hasids (Satmars to be specific) are mostly south of Broadway. Coyote is/was on a warehouse block that is/was on the Spanish side of Broadway. The Poles are in Greenpoint. I just moved my studio to Greenpoint and have been digging the bakeries and delis.

Your point about Hunt's point is well taken. The 14th St meat market was no picnic 20 years ago. There were studios there and sometimes you would have to hgh tail it into Dizzy Izzys. But it was the same sort of vibe. Wholesale meat is good because those guys are out all night.

If you have clients with money it makes no sense. But if you only have to book three days a month at $350/day to cover the nut then many things become possible. Do I sound like Morton Feldman yet?

Do I sound like Milton Friedman yet?

Last edited by Paul Gold; 1st February 2007 at 02:35 AM.. Reason: Not the composer, the economist.
Old 1st February 2007
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Beats trying to score with an uptight wannabee manhattan chick in $2k Manolo Blahniks heels, a $10K handbag and wife beater at Bungalow 8 who only wants to go home with you if can score some eight balls for her.
You're dating yourself. I was at Jeffrey last week, Blahniks go for $3k now.

I remember when they were only $700...
Old 1st February 2007
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I remember when they were only $700...
And who is dating themselves?
Old 1st February 2007
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
i am 20 + years in manhattan, and i have never been to the bronx, while i have
managed to go to london and los angeles many times in the past year alone......



be well


- jack
Ha!

I'm supposed to go to Williamsburg this weekend, but I can't rememebr how to get there. I visited Coyote once in the 90's, but I think that's the last time I was there.
Old 1st February 2007
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by danasti View Post

I don't think it will completely reverse. I think it will eventually cycle around to the late 70s / early 80s housing levels. I think the market in NYC has always cycled from strong expansion to medium levels and some small pockets of recession.
Except NYC is an international enough city that local real estate prices are inflcuenced by the value of the dollar. So when we're booming prices go up. When our dollar is weak, prices go up because rich foreigners have more levearage and NYC as a very desirable place to be, especially if you have money.
Old 1st February 2007
  #81
jhg
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jhg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Except NYC is an international enough city that local real estate prices are inflcuenced by the value of the dollar. So when we're booming prices go up. When our dollar is weak, prices go up because rich foreigners have more levearage and NYC as a very desirable place to be, especially if you have money.
Yes indeed. New 60 story or so apartment building next to the post office on 42nd street, btw 8-9th ave, lovely views of the Port Authority bus terminal, with tourists and shelters everywhere, yet they're being snatched up at ridiculous prices.

Oh yeah, mandatory ramble about New york, I've been to the Bronx a couple of times, first time when I was born at Albert Einstein CM, lived in Williamsburg amid junkies, big rats and cops who liked throwing me against the wall because I was white and looked unnatural, it was fun for the time - and money. I love the city. Stuffed my new OKM binaural mics into my ears and hit record on my way home, when evaluating results, trains, busses, boats, etc., just now reminded of another reason, and inspired.

If I had the money to purchase property in NY, It would probably be an investment property, rent studio space, so later I would feel obliged and crushed to sell it for new development in a market that seems to be able to defy the popping of the real estate bubble.

Oh yeah, Coyote, I rehearsed there with a couple of bands, am I correct in remembering that they had a soda type machine with $1 cans of Budweiser. I'd been in the control room, cool vibe, but their rates were a bit steep for my broke, yet picky, ass.

Regards,

jhg

Last edited by jhg; 1st February 2007 at 04:23 AM.. Reason: forgot point
Old 1st February 2007
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Lou it was a joke.

(I love the women in the Bronx...especially Pelham bay).

But havng a studio up there is tough. I've worked in a couple(Fordham Road,St Lawrence,Van Cortlandt) but to get out of town clients up there is near impossible. I mean Ornette Coleman's son had a studio in the heart of Harlem and trying to get a client to consider this as an option for a session was the same...and this was Harlem 80 blocks from Times Square.
I know it was a joke just screwing with you Thrill. I got into some trouble with girls in Pelham bay when I was a young. BTW there are Hasidim in the bronx too.
As much as I'd like to be closer to town, I'm happy for the low overhead and I'm only 20 minutes from midtown
Old 2nd February 2007
  #83
..

it doesn't matter what fr*gg*n AREA of the city you're in.

the BUSINESS has TOTALLY changed.

as for the city, i spent 35 years of my life in the city - that's PLENTY.

i have watched NYC change slowly and dramatically, since i was a kid.

NYC is NO LONGER the same city.

today, there's a starbucks and HSBC on practically every block.

hello - can you say mall?

whatever - different strokes......

i'll take my quiet dead-end road anytime.

y'all can sniff all the piss off the subway cars, for all i care....

.....although, i do believe most of the good PISS is even gone now heh...

(these days, you may have to travel as far as DC to get half-way decent piss)

..
Old 2nd February 2007
  #84
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danasti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Except NYC is an international enough city that local real estate prices are inflcuenced by the value of the dollar. So when we're booming prices go up. When our dollar is weak, prices go up because rich foreigners have more levearage and NYC as a very desirable place to be, especially if you have money.
I absolutely agree that NYC, London, Tokyo and Hong Kong are economies that are tied into the global economy, almost as much as their own. In that aspect you are correct. There is alot more to NYC than the US economy driving housing prices either up or down.

So even though alot more comes into play here I think it's safe to say we'll see a return to slower growth. I'm not saying we'll wake up one morning to find we're in the Great Depression or even the flat levels we saw throughout most of the 1970s but those things are still possible at some point. I feel that housing here is trending towards a more modest level. We'll see, I guess, but you're spot on about foreigners buying when the dollar is low. And the continual weakening of the dollar has done some serious harm..
Old 2nd February 2007
  #85
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
..

it doesn't matter what fr*gg*n AREA of the city you're in.

the BUSINESS has TOTALLY changed.

as for the city, i spent 35 years of my life in the city - that's PLENTY.

i have watched NYC change slowly and dramatically, since i was a kid.

NYC is NO LONGER the same city.

today, there's a starbucks and HSBC on practically every block.

hello - can you say mall?

whatever - different strokes......

i'll take my quiet dead-end road anytime.

y'all can sniff all the piss off the subway cars, for all i care....

.....although, i do believe most of the good PISS is even gone now heh...

(these days, you may have to travel as far as DC to get half-way decent piss)

..

i would have to agree
i love my studio
i love the met
i love central park
i like woody allen movies when i am out of town

nyc is not the town i moved to over 20 years ago:
it used to be a wild little island off the coast of america
it is now very safe, very corporate, very dull
the observed have almost all departed and a group
of awkward observers look at each others
sunglasses

i believe that high real estate values and culture are mutually
exclusive - the groovy cities right now are probably all in south america

i do believe that dense, urban environments are good for creativity


be well


- jack
Old 2nd February 2007
  #86
Lives for gear
 
danasti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrysings View Post

I'm with you bro. I just signed a 5 year lease for Deepwave and we will persevere.
The city is amazing, and I don't think I could ever get the sewer water out of my veins. It is sad though that our views in LIC across from Manhattan are slowly being eradicated (although I would love to live in one of the highrises), but hopefully we can ride with the tide and stay in business with a higher paying clientele. We all must adjust in this ever changing environment-- urban, suburban, or rural.
Congrats on the lease. I wish you all the best, man. I love LIC too but those frickin' buildings are killing me. I'm right on Vernon and 46th Ave so they have really eaten into a pretty stunning view. I just wish I could tell them to block the UN and leave the Chrysler and Empire State building. But, you're right, things change - they just change a hell of a lot quicker here. Hopefully our incomes go up with our expenses.

[QUOTE=Paul Gold;1104138]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post

To pick nits the Hasids (Satmars to be specific) are mostly south of Broadway. Coyote is/was on a warehouse block that is/was on the Spanish side of Broadway. The Poles are in Greenpoint. I just moved my studio to Greenpoint and have been digging the bakeries and delis.
That's exactly my understanding the neighborhoods. With the Hasids on the one side and the heavily spanish hood on the south streets running towards Bedford. I lived on Grand and Bushwick (L Train) for a few years and that area - Graham to Metropolitan (before the projects) is heavily Italian with all the crazy Catholic decorations on their front lawns.
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