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Pro Tools HD....Really worth it?
Old 21st February 2007
  #151
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londontown View Post
Does it help one to be taken seriously in certain parts of the industry (whether or not that's a good or justified thing) - absolutely.
And I have to disagree with that one.
I take people serious who can prove they know what they're talking about.
Everybody and their brother has a DAW of some kind these days at home.
Which one they own to me is completely irrelevant. Because it means nothing.
The quality of work you deliver will always be more important. If you have hafl a brain, you can figure how to get around any Daw in a day or 2, enough to get the job done..
And if you can't, you need to find another line of work.
And if you are smart, and know what you're doing, you can easily work in any DAW you want, and still deliver a PT session if that is a requirement.

I've seen enough people these days fresh out of school buying HD systems, and selling themselves as experienced, and they know D I C K.
Old 21st February 2007
  #152
Gear Addict
 

and that's a fine and noble opinion, which I wholeheartedly agree with, but try telling that to the legions of post supervisors in this town...just because we know better doesn't mean they do. My point isn't that one shouldn't take someone seriously based on their gear, but just that the clients so often fall in that path and it's churlish to pretend otherwise in many instances.

And also, most music editors I know for example use their pt rig as a way of earning more money...so it pays for itself. You can't charge $300 a day on top of your fee for a nuendo computer and some RME cards =) - if one is working a lot on that sort of thing then you'd have to be crazy not to take up that extra revenue. I know a few guys who have multiple rigs and make a killing with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
And I have to disagree with that one.
I take people serious who can prove they know what they're talking about.
Everybody and their brother has a DAW of some kind these days at home.
Which one they own to me is completely irrelevant. Because it means nothing.
The quality of work you deliver will always be more important. If you have hafl a brain, you can figure how to get around any Daw in a day or 2, enough to get the job done..
And if you can't, you need to find another line of work.
And if you are smart, and know what you're doing, you can easily work in any DAW you want, and still deliver a PT session if that is a requirement.

I've seen enough people these days fresh out of school buying HD systems, and selling themselves as experienced, and they know D I C K.
Old 21st February 2007
  #153
Gear Head
 
NowandThen's Avatar
 

Quote:
My clients require PT equipped studios, period. If you are lucky that you can choose only clients that don't care about whether it's Cubase or Nuendo or whatever, then good for you.

For me, I've got A&R managers, marketing dept guys, and label bosses sitting on the sofas behind my back while I'm working or mixing. And believe me, they would have questions about my ability if I were using RME/Nuendo. All these industry cats believe that you gotta have PT in order to be PRO. Don't argue with me about this--I didn't make this happen... It's just how the industry works. They need to see stuff like PT HD, TC 6000, SSL, etc..... It gives them peace of mind

Yeah, sure I wish I could invest less and use that money for other things like a bigger house and nicer car but the fact is that I, along with lots of other folks here in GS, need these tools for the jobs we're doing.

I find that I'm guilty of it as well... If I walked into a Mastering Studio and all he had was this Orban EQ and DBX, I'd laugh my head off and walk to Grundman's or Sterling instead!

And why do we always have to have these PT vs XXX threads anyways? It's really useless.

MPCist
hmm some very interenting points! MY apologies if I came off wrong to any one!
Thanks,
Chris
Old 21st February 2007
  #154
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londontown View Post
You can't charge $300 a day on top of your fee for a nuendo computer and some RME cards =) - if one is working a lot on that sort of thing then you'd have to be crazy not to take up that extra revenue. I know a few guys who have multiple rigs and make a killing with them.
You can charge whatever you want for your gear if they're hiring you for your talent. Is ee no reason why soemone workign on an Mbox or 002R is any different than someone usign an HD rig or Nuendo, DP or Logic.
Old 21st February 2007
  #155
Gear Head
 
Douchebag's Avatar
 

More NASCAR fans choose Pro Tools. It's a fact. If your clients aren't into NASCAR, DON'T USE PRO TOOLS! That is the best advice you'll get here. Also, this very post will make no sense to NASCAR fans; but to everyone else

I should also say that I think PT has a great interface and sounds excellent. I'm not biased; just helping you with the marketing aspect of it all.

Cheers,
******
Old 21st February 2007
  #156
Lives for gear
 

well guys, i own a fireface 800, many pres (api, manley, ua, avalon) and mikes (c12, u87, 414...) working on cubase sx3.

due to bugs and the non acceptable strategy of steinberg according to sx3, i´m thinking of gettin PT LE. i make lots of commercials so 32 channels should be fine first.

should i give digi 002 or 002r a try? as long as it´s equal to the fireface, i´m very interested in changing to and learning PT (LE).

if all´s good except the converters, what´s really needed at first lookin on my budget. to buy a/d or d/a? (sure both, but i have many mixes to do in the future) and how´s it implemented into my workstation? where´s it connected?

sorry for asking sooo much. thx!!!
Old 21st February 2007
  #157
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
You can charge whatever you want for your gear if they're hiring you for your talent. Is ee no reason why soemone workign on an Mbox or 002R is any different than someone usign an HD rig or Nuendo, DP or Logic.
but then whether they'll pay is another matter, but the prices for PT rig rental don't vary much.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest about the crux of what your point is, but plenty of people less well informed do, which is what my point is.

Since Mbox can't do multiple outs for 5.1 (a must), and 002R can but not exactly many multiple 5.1 stems (another must unless the music tracks are incredibly narrow) - for TV that might not be a problem, but I've never, ever seen anyone do that on a film of anything above the smallest budgets. Unless the mixers are happy with all music alterations apart from overall level being done on that pt rig by the music editor, it'd be a problem. Exceptions exist of course but it's not the norm.

To bring a nuendo or logic rig with the music stems onto a dub stage in this town, would of course be fine, and would almost certainly work fine, but would certainly get curious looks. In an industry where there are plenty of fish in the sea, having a reputation (no matter how incorrect) as something out of the ordinary could be good or bad, and more often bad. These companies and people like reliability, and PT is one of those norms now, and there's alas a perception that without PT, you're not really pro. Stupid though it is, it exists.
Old 21st February 2007
  #158
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

It's not what PT does that LA doesn't. It's more of an industry standard that almost everyone's decided on -- Hell, even labels require that I give them the masters in PT format if it isn't tape-based.

I use LA too and it's great. I use it for composing and arranging. But for recording / mixing, it's PT HD.

And 40G's a year, I'd better be making more than that if I'm working full-time as a pro! heh heh heh It makes perfect sense to me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by piano View Post
I've been a Logic guy since they started.

Just what is it that PT does that Logic and an Apogee does not? I've not tried PT ... so please enlighten me.

From my perspective, you get to pay even more money for TDM plugs for the same AU plugs and when the new PT rig comes out you lose BIG bucks in upgrading.

It's been my conclusion, that unless you are actually making $40,000+ a year using PT - it does not make much sense.

Am I missing something?
Old 21st February 2007
  #159
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddierodriguez View Post
well guys, i own a fireface 800, many pres (api, manley, ua, avalon) and mikes (c12, u87, 414...) working on cubase sx3.

due to bugs and the non acceptable strategy of steinberg according to sx3, i´m thinking of gettin PT LE. i make lots of commercials so 32 channels should be fine first.

should i give digi 002 or 002r a try? as long as it´s equal to the fireface, i´m very interested in changing to and learning PT (LE).

if all´s good except the converters, what´s really needed at first lookin on my budget. to buy a/d or d/a? (sure both, but i have many mixes to do in the future) and how´s it implemented into my workstation? where´s it connected?

sorry for asking sooo much. thx!!!

I use PT HD now. But I did have 002R, and finally succombed to all the yak and tried Logic, and Nuendo, on the Mac.

Going to an RME Fireface with Nuendo, I notice a LOT more bottom end than with the 002R. I was using an Apogee Mini Me which for small bucks just made a HUGE difference to the 002R and RME when recording.

I do a lot of commercials as well, and though 32 tracks seems OK, if you are using many stereo samples, consider the Producer Pack from Digi which allows more tracks...

TH
Old 21st February 2007
  #160
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londontown View Post

To bring a nuendo or logic rig with the music stems onto a dub stage in this town, would of course be fine, and would almost certainly work fine, but would certainly get curious looks.
Untill they plug their RME MADI coax cable in and with a single connection have 56 channels running directly into the large format digital console. heh


We tend to use whatever the composer brings in. We make it work.
Whoever is doing the changes, wether it's the composer or editor, we simply import the stems into our session.
So whatever they use has absolutely no impact on what we use.

Is LA really that rigid?
Old 21st February 2007
  #161
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddierodriguez View Post
well guys, i own a fireface 800, many pres (api, manley, ua, avalon) and mikes (c12, u87, 414...) working on cubase sx3.

due to bugs and the non acceptable strategy of steinberg according to sx3, i´m thinking of gettin PT LE. i make lots of commercials so 32 channels should be fine first.

should i give digi 002 or 002r a try? as long as it´s equal to the fireface, i´m very interested in changing to and learning PT (LE).

if all´s good except the converters, what´s really needed at first lookin on my budget. to buy a/d or d/a? (sure both, but i have many mixes to do in the future) and how´s it implemented into my workstation? where´s it connected?

sorry for asking sooo much. thx!!!
Which non acceptable issue with SX3?
You think Digi is any better?
You think every single bug is fixed before they do another paid update/upgrade?
Think again. it's all the same.
I've seen all the whining over at the cubase.net website.
They're a bunch of crybabies who think corporations care about their feelings.
They don't. None of them do. get used to it, and move on.
Old 21st February 2007
  #162
Lives for gear
 

i have serious troubles in stability. it can only be better with pt. and c4 isn´t workin´ till now... pt can´t be that bad...

if it´s equal to use this or that, then i want to give it a try. i was one of the pt-sux guys, but having troubles and weird crashes makes me

digi 002r + lavry, benchmark, whatever good converter = worth a try?

does d/a work for me first?

thx!
Old 21st February 2007
  #163
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Untill they plug their RME MADI coax cable in and with a single connection have 56 channels running directly into the large format digital console. heh


We tend to use whatever the composer brings in. We make it work.
Whoever is doing the changes, wether it's the composer or editor, we simply import the stems into our session.
So whatever they use has absolutely no impact on what we use.

Is LA really that rigid?
Certainly more rigid than london, I've never written for a show dubbing outside of London or Los Angeles, so can't comment outside of that. Depends on the stage but all the major studio stages seem to be 99.99% tools.

Do love madi though, that is a genius piece of work. That amount of info going down a single coax is just awesome.
Old 21st February 2007
  #164
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddierodriguez View Post
i have serious troubles in stability. it can only be better with pt. and c4 isn´t workin´ till now... pt can´t be that bad...

if it´s equal to use this or that, then i want to give it a try. i was one of the pt-sux guys, but having troubles and weird crashes makes me

digi 002r + lavry, benchmark, whatever good converter = worth a try?

does d/a work for me first?

thx!

Well, I know that Nuendo is rocksolid. And I thought that Cubase ws built on the same engine.
Old 21st February 2007
  #165
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londontown View Post
Certainly more rigid than london, I've never written for a show dubbing outside of London or Los Angeles, so can't comment outside of that.
My plans are to be move not this year, but the following year to London.
Old 21st February 2007
  #166
Lives for gear
 

no, nuendo´s a different (better) engine.

c4 has a changed nuendo-engine, so that´s why it was so hyped at the beginning. now users sell their c4s cause it´s not working.
Old 21st February 2007
  #167
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Hate to burst your bubble. But HD is the same crap, different pile.
Ah, there it is. I like to drop into these threads just to see Henchman have at it. It's like a tic or something.

You guys are sick. The potential profit from these rigs, compared to their cost, is ridiculous. Studios used to agonize over whether to get the half million dollar console to attract the clientel. Now you can be a player for a fraction of that.

You're arguing pennies versus nickels when the real currency is in dollars and up.

-R
Old 21st February 2007
  #168
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Ah, there it is. I like to drop into these threads just to see Henchman have at it. It's like a tic or something.

You guys are sick. The potential profit from these rigs, compared to their cost, is ridiculous. Studios used to agonize over whether to get the half million dollar console to attract the clientel. Now you can be a player for a fraction of that.

You're arguing pennies versus nickels when the real currency is in dollars and up.

-R
And if you read the entire thread, you would have seen that I just finished saying that if he wants to go the HD route anyway, to get an HD1 system and a screaming quadcore computer.
He'll get the advantages of HD and the plug-in count needed with the CPU and RTAS.

Also, I was repsonding to this:

Quote:
I couldn't disagree more. MIX is nothing but crap compared to HD
and the origial poster asked this specific question:

Quote:
right now i use cubase and i've learned it pretty well, but i'm willing to jump to PT HD if it's going to make my sound tenfold better.

does PT HD increase the quality of your music w/ their core cards? digidesign says yes. what do you guys think.
And simply getting HD will neithe rimprove the quality of your mixes or make them sound tenfold better.

That's like expecting a vintage 15K guitar will make you a better player VS a new American made Standard strat.
Old 21st February 2007
  #169
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
That's like expecting a vintage 15K guitar will make you a better player VS a new American made Standard strat.
I dunno, Mark, but my $5,000 acoustic guitar sure plays/sounds better than the normal GC sh*t. But as far as PT HD / Nuendo goes, I don't have an opinion on that.....

Old 21st February 2007
  #170
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
And simply getting HD will neither improve the quality of your mixes or make them sound tenfold better.

That's like expecting a vintage 15K guitar will make you a better player VS a new American made Standard strat.
Ah, but yes in the real world...
If someone pulled up in an Aston Martin Vanquish, that certainly has ten times the cache of a lets say... a Pontiac Solstice.
You would take someone a little more seriously in an Aston Martin. It's recognizing quality and being able to afford it.
Old 21st February 2007
  #171
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Drew I own a highly expanded PT Mix system. Yes Every 6 months or so I debate going in the box or upgradeing too HD. Personally I would take a MIX system over LE (higher track and i/o count eaiser intrgration of out board converters ect).
But here is the advise of a Retired pro tools specialist !
Starting point
HD1
intel based mac Pro
lynx Aurora 8 or 16 with pt hd card!

Why hD 1 is the starting point if you need more DSP add it when you KNow you need it! not before.
Intel is the current MAC yeah you could go G5 or G4 but How long are Digi and apple going to support these things???? who knows! Also the intel gives you plenty of room for internal drives and runs quiter and coller than a G5 (I doubt your going to end up with more than 3 cards)!
I like the lynx it sounds beter than the digi converters the 8 has a nice price and the 16 is just a bargin!
Is a HD rig goimg to get you more work? Maybe.
Is it going to make your work sound better? NO.
is it going to get you Grammy and Laid? Doubtfull.
What it means is you will now have the Defacto standard of the Industry, and that if you have the skills and the contacts ou have one piece of the puzzle that can maybe get you to the next level!

OH Yeah why My name isnt printed cause certain manufactures have asked that If I comment on their products that I do so with out listing my name now I believe that you can look at my profile and find it or from my sig lines and from reading some of my posts you can do a little investigation and figur it out!
Old 21st February 2007
  #172
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Ah, but yes in the real world...
If someone pulled up in an Aston Martin Vanquish, that certainly has ten times the cache of a lets say... a Pontiac Solstice.
You would take someone a little more seriously in an Aston Martin. It's recognizing quality and being able to afford it.
You don't seriously want to use that kind of comparison when comparing PT's to any other Daw do you?
That's pretty laughable.
Old 21st February 2007
  #173
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
I dunno, Mark, but my $5,000 acoustic guitar sure plays/sounds better than the normal GC sh*t. But as far as PT HD / Nuendo goes, I don't have an opinion on that.....


But it doesn't make YOU a bettre player, does it.

f your a crappy player, a $15k guitar won't make yo any better of a player. And don't pretend fro a second it will.
Old 21st February 2007
  #174
Gear Maniac
 
madcowvt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
But it doesn't make YOU a bettre player, does it.

f your a crappy player, a $15k guitar won't make yo any better of a player. And don't pretend fro a second it will.
No, but it will be easier to play since its neck is probably better, it probably sounds better and therefore gives you inspiration to play better and play more. Ive played guitar for 20 years and theres nothing worse then trying to play a piece of ****.

I have a 002r and it has served the purpose for 3 years now. I feel that it's time to move up (or on) to HD. Why? I truly believe it is a better tool then LE and it will inspire me to try new things, hone my skills and make better recordings. Not worrying about running out of cpu power when you are using tons of plugs etc..

Look at all the HD systems still running fine on G4's. I just upgraded to PT LE 7.3 and some of my older sessions choke and wont play ("Your running out of cpu power, please....blah, blah). That tells me that 7.3 is resourse intensive and it's not going to get any better. By the time I keep updating my PC I could have bought HD and a mac and been done with it for years (sorta of speaking).

Anywho...just thinking out loud. Its just like a car, you dont need to buy the nicer one but hey... WTF... it is nice right?
Old 21st February 2007
  #175
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowvt View Post

Anywho...just thinking out loud. Its just like a car, you dont need to buy the nicer one but hey... WTF... it is nice right?
But the question was, would it improve his mixes tenfold.
And the aswer to that is, No. I don't care what you buy.
A bad mixer will sound bad on anyhtign. And the opposite holds true as well.
Jimmy Page playing a POS, will still play and sound like Jimmy Page.
Old 21st February 2007
  #176
Gear Maniac
 
madcowvt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
But the question was, would it improve his mixes tenfold.
And the aswer to that is, No. I don't care what you buy.
A bad mixer will sound bad on anyhtign. And the opposite holds true as well.
Jimmy Page playing a POS, will still play and sound like Jimmy Page.
I dont disagree with you but somtimes inspiration is what someone needs and if it's PT HD well..... why not I guess. Theres pro's and cons to everything and thats what makes this place so fun

As you said
Quote:
And if you read the entire thread, you would have seen that I just finished saying that if he wants to go the HD route anyway, to get an HD1 system and a screaming quadcore computer.
He'll get the advantages of HD and the plug-in count needed with the CPU and RTAS.
That makes perfect sense to my situation as well...

Which brings up a question that is related for all you pro tool HD users.
I always hear someone say to go at least HD2 and not HD1. If someone in my shoes who is used to PTLE then wouldnt HD1 be fine for all intents and purposes?

For instance. When the specs say... "Pro Tools|HD 1 features the HD Core card, supporting up to 32 channels of I/O and guaranteed support for up to 96 simultaneous audio tracks with no stress on the computer."

Does this mean 96 tracks loaded with plugins? I also assume that is at 44.1?
Old 21st February 2007
  #177
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
And simply getting HD will neithe rimprove the quality of your mixes or make them sound tenfold better.

That's like expecting a vintage 15K guitar will make you a better player VS a new American made Standard strat.
I can't speak for guitars, but I know when I sat down to Elton John's 100k Yamaha C9 and riffed for awhile I was a way better player than I am on my humble stock C7.

-R
Old 21st February 2007
  #178
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
But the question was, would it improve his mixes tenfold.
And the aswer to that is, No. I don't care what you buy.
A bad mixer will sound bad on anyhtign. And the opposite holds true as well.
Jimmy Page playing a POS, will still play and sound like Jimmy Page.
So you're just saying that tools don't matter. If that's your feeling, why are you even here?

-R

"The argument clinic is down the hall. This is hitting on the head lessons in here."
Old 22nd February 2007
  #179
Gear Addict
 

I love the way this thread is full of people who essentially share the same opinion but still it looks like an argument

basically, at least - imho

a) The gear does not the engineer make. But give a good engineer only gear from radioshack and they're going to have a relatively hard time making groundbreaking records.

b) DAWs have a potential slight sonic difference that is almost certainly nearly irrelevant when compared to the differences obtained, say, with different mics, and certainly irrelevant when in the hands of an experienced engineer with knowledge and skill on his or her side.

c) Mixes that suck on one DAW will suck on another, all things being equal aside the basic engine.

d) There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals Chuck Norris allows to live.

e) PT is certainly a fine option when considering postproduction and music recording DAWs, there are many others, and none of them require the services of a console technician

f) the console is way cooler, but then so is the Aston. A large vintage neve/ssl desk is the aston martin equivalent, the PT HD is sort of like a Prius. Popular in Hollywood, cheap for what it is in comparison to the Aston, but still possibly overpriced, and all a matter of taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
So you're just saying that tools don't matter. If that's your feeling, why are you even here?

-R

"The argument clinic is down the hall. This is hitting on the head lessons in here."
Old 22nd February 2007
  #180
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londontown View Post


a) The gear does not the engineer make. But give a good engineer only gear from radioshack and they're going to have a relatively hard time making groundbreaking records.

b) DAWs have a potential slight sonic difference that is almost certainly nearly irrelevant when compared to the differences obtained, say, with different mics, and certainly irrelevant when in the hands of an experienced engineer with knowledge and skill on his or her side.

c) Mixes that suck on one DAW will suck on another, all things being equal aside the basic engine.

Exactly my point.
Some people just want to argue for argements sake. Because they don't want to admit that if you suck using Cubase, your going to suck using PT's.
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