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Pro Tools HD....Really worth it?
Old 31st January 2007
  #121
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drewrevolution's Avatar
 

michael-

i was just looking at your discography and saw that you mixed the working title's debut full length - about face. how was that? i seriously love the mix on it. it sounds great and i think that record is amazing. wish more people knew about that band
Old 31st January 2007
  #122
Gear Addict
 

As a listener mixing different recordings every week from different artists, I've decided two things. Thing one:I get sessions at 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96k all at 24bit. My ear does not kick in and tell me"wow, this week i'm mixing at 96k because it feels so much more open"no, that doesn't happen. It's how the session was recorded that makes the difference.
Thing two:
Sometimes, within an album project, a song or two is recorded at a higher or lower sample rate. If it's recorded by the same engineer in the same studio, I generally notice a difference because I find myself eq'ing differently and if it went from low to high I usually comment to my assistant that I like how there's more air on the cymbals or the track in general.

So, i've kind of contradicted myself which means that sometimes I notice and sometimes I don't. Helpful aren't I! michael
Old 31st January 2007
  #123
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHB850 View Post
uuh, actually Mike's right, i only mix...even if Mutt called...and the last time I got a call to record was when I recorded James Brown many years ago and that was because the only way I could get to mix him was by recording him. Michael
I stand corrected.
Old 31st January 2007
  #124
But if Mutt called about recording James Brown....



Or if Bono called....
Old 31st January 2007
  #125
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Tony,

Glad to hear you have access to 1073s for tracking. You obviously know what to choose to get the job done.

Our friend here looking to buy PT HD, on the other hand, said he is using a Mackie.

So, if he blows his wad of cash on that then he may end up having to use his Mackie pres for tracking. No matter how good PT HD may sound to his clients, when they get to their car and hear what the end result of those Mackie pres sound like they will do nothing but curse him.

Man, I certainly meant no offense to you and I wasn't really referring to you concerning engineers that mostly mix.

I saw your discography and have the utmost respect for you! You are obviously great at what you do, or you would not be in your position.

But alot of these newbies looking to JUMP into HD haven't a clue about all the other things that are so important in acheiving great results in this game.

Mackie pres, sub par mics, sub par converters, sheetrock closets to track in = doodoo in, doodoo out --- PT HD will NOT save the day in this situation.

BTW, "sage" stands for spice.
No offense taken, my problem is people think that engineering is a sprint to the finish line and I see it as a marathon.
I won't get all the gear I want in a one or two year period. I have to look at something long term and realize that little by little, I need to build my arsenal of great tools.

One year for me it's about buying mic pres, one year it's about mics. Three years ago exactly I decided it was going to be about a Pro Tools upgrade for me.
I realized that if I at least was on an HD format, I could work and interchange files much better with an industry standard. So I made the leap to HD.

From my viewpoint it's easier and cheaper renting a good mic that cost $6000 and owning Pro Tools, than trying to rent an HD rig and always trying to hook up and interface that into my system.
In LA there are great many things you rent, but what takes longer on a big session, setting up pres and and mics that are rented or trying to interface an HD rig into your computer for a session.

I have a number of clients who have Mackie boards and maybe one or two high end pres, but they have a relativity big HD rig. Every year they buy more gear to make them sonically get better and better, but they can work consistently in Pro Tools.

BTW, this year my focus is completing a Tonelux rack and retiring my Mackie.
Buying the rack and getting a couple of modules at a time.
First a couple of pres, then the SM2 summer with a couple of MX2's as a line input.
Step by step, buying and building something that works for me and my clients.
Old 31st January 2007
  #126
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LoopQuantum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki View Post
Um... you just schooled me.

I just know the reason I picked the cards I did, and I somewhat got the idea of why I did out there... I just kinda goofed along the way.

I think it's still a good point though, right?
No intention of Schooling you.... Just want to make sure the right info's out there.

You picked a PCIX system because it worked for you, ergo, a good choice. No biggie.

To my knowledge, you are correct as it relates to multicard PCIE systems being limited to 3 cards, but this is only temporary. Aside from that, 3 cards is a LOT of horsepower. I know some people need more, but I rarely exhaust my 2 card system. It's all pretty subjective to each individuals workflow, common track count, bussing, hardware inserts vs plugins, preferred samp rate and bit depth, climate you live in, shoe size, mother's maiden name, susceptibility to polio, etc.

you get the point.
Old 31st January 2007
  #127
Gear Addict
 
drewrevolution's Avatar
 

Quote:
It's all pretty subjective to each individuals workflow, common track count, bussing, hardware inserts vs plugins, preferred samp rate and bit depth, climate you live in, shoe size, mother's maiden name, susceptibility to polio, etc.
I actually laughed out loud when i read that


Tony-
That mindset that you had about getting set with PT HD and then over the years building up more pieces of gear is what I had been thinking was good to do. Thanks for sharing your experiences because that one really helped me out with my decision.

I can always buy a $2000 pre, but I don't know the next time I'll be able to drop serious cash on HD so why not go ahead and get set and then build the smaller pieces over the years.
Old 31st January 2007
  #128
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
But if Mutt called about recording James Brown....



Or if Bono called....
Well if Mutt called about recording james brown, in the words of Fletcher"I'd need an airline ticket, a shovel and some air freshner" As for Bono...well he wouldn't, but if he did..I'd talk him out of it. Michael
Old 31st January 2007
  #129
kdp
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The only reason to get into HD Protools is the brag factor. Invest your money on the better less expensive formats. Get Nuendo and some Apogee, Prism or even RME converters. File sharing is not an issue. If your paying clients want to know if you have Protools tell them you have something better. Stop the maddness!
Old 31st January 2007
  #130
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LoopQuantum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp View Post
The only reason to get into HD Protools is the brag factor. Invest your money on the better less expensive formats. Get Nuendo and some Apogee, Prism or even RME converters. File sharing is not an issue. If your paying clients want to know if you have Protools tell them you have something better. Stop the maddness!

"Well, that's just, like....your opinion, man...."

Jeff "Dude" Lebowski.
Old 31st January 2007
  #131
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp View Post
The only reason to get into HD Protools is the brag factor. Invest your money on the better less expensive formats. Get Nuendo and some Apogee, Prism or even RME converters. File sharing is not an issue. If your paying clients want to know if you have Protools tell them you have something better. Stop the maddness!


LOL! ROTFLMAO!
Old 31st January 2007
  #132
Gear Maniac
 
madcowvt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp View Post
The only reason to get into HD Protools is the brag factor. Invest your money on the better less expensive formats. Get Nuendo and some Apogee, Prism or even RME converters. File sharing is not an issue. If your paying clients want to know if you have Protools tell them you have something better. Stop the maddness!
Just like tone... "Better" is very subjective now a days with most of the DAWS.

Use what works for you. In the end, they all get the job done. It's the guy running the DAW thats going to make the difference. my .0002
Old 31st January 2007
  #133
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Yes it's always the man behind the tool, how true, how true.
Often forgotten, but still true.

Tamas Dragon
Old 1st February 2007
  #134
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHB850 View Post
Well if Mutt called about recording james brown, in the words of Fletcher"I'd need an airline ticket, a shovel and some air freshner" As for Bono...well he wouldn't, but if he did..I'd talk him out of it. Michael
Yeah, but which airline, what type of shovel and which brand of air freshener would be the best for the job?
Old 1st February 2007
  #135
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Jimsmack's Avatar
 

I was in a similar situation a month or so ago. PT definitely carries the buzz. Other the other hand I've had this small studio for 10 years. 02r, ADATs, then 2408s, DP and Mac after Mac. All of it worthless paper weights in the end. I just couldn't bring myself to look away from tone and value to buy another DAW. DP works alright. Sounds fine. Have Waves. If I'm unhappy with it I'll go the summing route which many PT users are doing anyway. I choose to minimize my investment in digital. My purchase...

2 API 3124+
1 Chandler TG2
2 Chandler LTD-1
Lynx Aurora 16

Already have Demeter VTMP-2b. An Equinox or 8816 or Chandler Mini Mixer later. First more mics and comps. And no upgrades to purchase.

Last edited by Jimsmack; 1st February 2007 at 01:21 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 19th February 2007
  #136
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drewrevolution's Avatar
 

thanks for all the opinions.

i think i have gotten extremely close to what i'm going to get. lemme know if you think this is a better route for me instead of pro tools HD

API 3124+
Neve 1073 DPA
Apogee Rosetta 800
Digi 002R
Mogami Cables
Sennheiser MD421 (x2)
UAD-1 Ultra Pak
Soundelux u195

I'm real stoked on this!
Old 19th February 2007
  #137
Gear Head
 
NowandThen's Avatar
 

What is it that Pt Hd does that I cant do in Nuendo? I have a very hard time understanding this!
Thanks,
Chris
Old 19th February 2007
  #138
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by NowandThen View Post
What is it that Pt Hd does that I cant do in Nuendo? I have a very hard time understanding this!
Thanks,
Chris
It's more the other way round in my experience. PT can't do some things Nuendo can do.
Comping a track can be done in a fraction of the time with Nuendo. (and Cubase)

But then if you want what everyone else has, go out and get PT HD.heh

I sold my expensive PT rig years ago and even turned WinXP. It wasn't about money. I just wanted to get the best system for what I need and I'm very happy with it.
But then I'm my own client (singer/writer) and don't have to compatible with others. Also being a writer all the MIDI stuff is much better with anything else than PT.

And yes, contrary to what you would believe, PT TDM and native software like Nuendo DO sound different. Don't ask me why. They just do.

I pulled up all my .wav files from PT on my Nuendo, used the same converters and the difference was big. But that was when I summed ITB. I don't think there is a big difference if you mix OTB.

BTW I think if you don't work in post you should get Cubase instead of Nuendo which is 99% identical and costs half.

Get a very good clock, converters and a good set of ears and you are ready.
Old 19th February 2007
  #139
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewrevolution View Post
thanks for all the opinions.

i think i have gotten extremely close to what i'm going to get. lemme know if you think this is a better route for me instead of pro tools HD

API 3124+
Neve 1073 DPA
Apogee Rosetta 800
Digi 002R
Mogami Cables
Sennheiser MD421 (x2)
UAD-1 Ultra Pak
Soundelux u195

I'm real stoked on this!
Well, if you want to go PT's, get an HD1(preferrably used) for the trackcount and much better automation implementation, and a screaming Quadcore computer for Plug-ins.
Old 19th February 2007
  #140
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoopQuantum View Post
"Well, that's just, like....your opinion, man...."

Jeff "Dude" Lebowski.
Well it definitely is, and I respect it.

For me, on the Mac, I have been there and done that. I had Logic, and I had Nuendo, had DP, and I had Pro Tools LE 002R. All of it was a pain in the rear in one way or another, despite the unique plus factors each platform offered.

I now have HD, and I would NEVER go back to anything else. Best money I've ever spent. Well, next to my Hiwatt.

TH
Old 20th February 2007
  #141
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numrologst's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Well, next to my Hiwatt.

TH
which hiwatt?
Old 20th February 2007
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
which hiwatt?
CP504


See pic under "News and Updates" on www.aerovons.com

TH
Old 20th February 2007
  #143
Gear Head
 
NowandThen's Avatar
 

Quote:
It's more the other way round in my experience. PT can't do some things Nuendo can do.
Comping a track can be done in a fraction of the time with Nuendo. (and Cubase)

But then if you want what everyone else has, go out and get PT HD.

I sold my expensive PT rig years ago and even turned WinXP. It wasn't about money. I just wanted to get the best system for what I need and I'm very happy with it.
But then I'm my own client (singer/writer) and don't have to compatible with others. Also being a writer all the MIDI stuff is much better with anything else than PT.

And yes, contrary to what you would believe, PT TDM and native software like Nuendo DO sound different. Don't ask me why. They just do.

I pulled up all my .wav files from PT on my Nuendo, used the same converters and the difference was big. But that was when I summed ITB. I don't think there is a big difference if you mix OTB.

BTW I think if you don't work in post you should get Cubase instead of Nuendo which is 99% identical and costs half.

Get a very good clock, converters and a good set of ears and you are ready.
Agreed! I was just wondering if I was missing something? I've Even attended PT seminars and it seems to me that they are always catching up with other editing programs. I do post stuff aswell other wise id be on cubase. Well I guess it doesn't matter what program is used I just find to be a bad business decission and I know some people get clients just becuase they have HD but Im not into those kind of clients Id rather get my clients based on my performance!
Thanks,
Chris
Old 20th February 2007
  #144
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NowandThen View Post
Im not into those kind of clients Id rather get my clients based on my performance!
That's actaully funny. What does that mean?
If a client is paying your rate, what difference does it make.
Most clients will pay your rate mainly because of Pro Tools.
Old 20th February 2007
  #145
Gear Head
 
NowandThen's Avatar
 

Quote:
That's actaully funny. What does that mean?
If a client is paying your rate, what difference does it make.
Most clients will pay your rate mainly because of Pro Tools.
It means I would rather have clients that are concerned about my artistic desicions to capture their sound not on an editing program. Would you have some build you a house just because they have an expensive hammer? Thats funny to me!
Old 21st February 2007
  #146
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My clients require PT equipped studios, period. If you are lucky that you can choose only clients that don't care about whether it's Cubase or Nuendo or whatever, then good for you.

For me, I've got A&R managers, marketing dept guys, and label bosses sitting on the sofas behind my back while I'm working or mixing. And believe me, they would have questions about my ability if I were using RME/Nuendo. All these industry cats believe that you gotta have PT in order to be PRO. Don't argue with me about this--I didn't make this happen... It's just how the industry works. They need to see stuff like PT HD, TC 6000, SSL, etc..... It gives them peace of mind heh heh heh

Yeah, sure I wish I could invest less and use that money for other things like a bigger house and nicer car but the fact is that I, along with lots of other folks here in GS, need these tools for the jobs we're doing.

I find that I'm guilty of it as well... If I walked into a Mastering Studio and all he had was this Orban EQ and DBX, I'd laugh my head off and walk to Grundman's or Sterling instead!

And why do we always have to have these PT vs XXX threads anyways? It's really useless.

MPCist



Quote:
Originally Posted by NowandThen View Post
It means I would rather have clients that are concerned about my artistic desicions to capture their sound not on an editing program. Would you have some build you a house just because they have an expensive hammer? Thats funny to me!
Old 21st February 2007
  #147
Gear Addict
 

second that. Serious work in many areas simply requires tools...most film stuff in L.A. you get a strange look if you don't use PT. They must have a 99% market share on dub stages. Every working music editor I know has their own HD rig or at the very least an Mbox. It's a given they rent it to the production. It's basically a term of employment, and frankly, if someone wanted a job as a music editor on a major show and didn't have one they probably wouldn't stand a hope in hell.
If yer clients don't need it or don't care, then go find what you like best and buy it, because with few exceptions you can make a great record on any platform if you've got good music to record and the skills to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
My clients require PT equipped studios, period. If you are lucky that you can choose only clients that don't care about whether it's Cubase or Nuendo or whatever, then good for you.

For me, I've got A&R managers, marketing dept guys, and label bosses sitting on the sofas behind my back while I'm working or mixing. And believe me, they would have questions about my ability if I were using RME/Nuendo. All these industry cats believe that you gotta have PT in order to be PRO. Don't argue with me about this--I didn't make this happen... It's just how the industry works. They need to see stuff like PT HD, TC 6000, SSL, etc..... It gives them peace of mind heh heh heh

Yeah, sure I wish I could invest less and use that money for other things like a bigger house and nicer car but the fact is that I, along with lots of other folks here in GS, need these tools for the jobs we're doing.

I find that I'm guilty of it as well... If I walked into a Mastering Studio and all he had was this Orban EQ and DBX, I'd laugh my head off and walk to Grundman's or Sterling instead!

And why do we always have to have these PT vs XXX threads anyways? It's really useless.

MPCist
Old 21st February 2007
  #148
Lives for gear
I've been a Logic guy since they started.

Just what is it that PT does that Logic and an Apogee does not? I've not tried PT ... so please enlighten me.

From my perspective, you get to pay even more money for TDM plugs for the same AU plugs and when the new PT rig comes out you lose BIG bucks in upgrading.

It's been my conclusion, that unless you are actually making $40,000+ a year using PT - it does not make much sense.

Am I missing something?
Old 21st February 2007
  #149
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

I've often wondered how many DIGI IS SATAN folks also believe there were shots from the Grassy Knoll?

TH
Old 21st February 2007
  #150
Gear Addict
 

it depends. as I mentioned earlier, certain jobs require it, many in film. That's not going to change given the Avid purchase. No major scoring stage uses anything else, except for the occasional blip. At the end of the day it's a tool for recording audio and editing and manipulating it, and no, it has no magic thing it does that others can't, but they have something approaching a monopoly in some areas, and I can quite happily say it's paid for itself. Does it make the work any better? Not really. Does it help one to be taken seriously in certain parts of the industry (whether or not that's a good or justified thing) - absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piano View Post
I've been a Logic guy since they started.

Just what is it that PT does that Logic and an Apogee does not? I've not tried PT ... so please enlighten me.

From my perspective, you get to pay even more money for TDM plugs for the same AU plugs and when the new PT rig comes out you lose BIG bucks in upgrading.

It's been my conclusion, that unless you are actually making $40,000+ a year using PT - it does not make much sense.

Am I missing something?
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