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Kii Three-Have you heard them?
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2311
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pentagon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
gain, ignore the rolloff at 9K. They measure flat via L or R.

I might sell my Trinnov now.

If you are having issues measuring the top end with L+R with REW but L and R are flat separately, then most likely you have a phase issue between the speakers

It's not like REW knows something special about the speakers it is measuring. Sound is sound to it.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2312
Gear Addict
 
MrChick's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
If you are having issues measuring the top end with L+R with REW but L and R are flat separately, then most likely you have a phase issue between the speakers

It's not like REW knows something special about the speakers it is measuring. Sound is sound to it.
Phase correction is where Trinnov excels.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2313
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
If you are having issues measuring the top end with L+R with REW but L and R are flat separately, then most likely you have a phase issue between the speakers

It's not like REW knows something special about the speakers it is measuring. Sound is sound to it.
Yeah that makes (speakers produce sound, not DSP), but there's no phase issue. Solo L/R sounds identical to L+R.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2314
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pentagon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Solo L/R sounds identical to L+R.
Your ears are 8” (average) apart. A microphone is a single point pick up. At the frequencies we’re looking at (8kHz+) that means a world of difference to both FR per speaker and phase. If you are comfortable reading REW’s phase plot (and if it is time aligned) you can see the issues that are occurring at the microphone.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2315
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Your ears are 8” (average) apart. A microphone is a single point pick up. At the frequencies we’re looking at (8kHz+) that means a world of difference to both FR per speaker and phase. If you are comfortable reading REW’s phase plot (and if it is time aligned) you can see the issues that are occurring at the microphone.
I don't know how to read phase plots - I'll look into it, thanks. The ear test of mono monitor vs stereo is telling though, there's no difference between them.

The same thing happens when measuring Kii via the Trinnov btw, which also aligns phase.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2316
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Deckdaddy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you measure both speakers simultaneously and the mic isn’t exactly(!) centered you’re gonna get weird graphs from cancellations/comb filter stuff in the very short wavelengths of high frequencies. Better to measure each one seperately and then combine. It’s OK to run both in the bass region to see how they work combined.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #2317
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy View Post
If you measure both speakers simultaneously and the mic isn’t exactly(!) centered you’re gonna get weird graphs from cancellations/comb filter stuff in the very short wavelengths of high frequencies. Better to measure each one seperately and then combine. It’s OK to run both in the bass region to see how they work combined.
That makes sense - thanks.
Old 5th October 2020
  #2318
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Managed to get to this:



If I can iron that 200-400 area out it'll be pretty much +/-1dB across the spectrum.

*Rolls sleeves up*
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2319
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Managed to get to this:



If I can iron that 200-400 area out it'll be pretty much +/-1dB across the spectrum.

*Rolls sleeves up*
Hey Bose :-) did you achieve that plot with purely Kii dsp and acoustic treatment? Or Trinnov too? (Apologies if this is all explained previously, I’m very late to this thread!). Thanks so much!
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2320
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animesh Raval View Post
Hey Bose :-) did you achieve that plot with purely Kii dsp and acoustic treatment? Or Trinnov too? (Apologies if this is all explained previously, I’m very late to this thread!). Thanks so much!
Hi mate. Yeah the bulk was via internal Kii filters. I spent a couple of hours trying different approaches to get the flattest result. The finishing touch was via MathAudio Room EQ, which is pretty amazing for the price.
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2321
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Animesh Raval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Hi mate. Yeah the bulk was via internal Kii filters. I spent a couple of hours trying different approaches to get the flattest result. The finishing touch was via MathAudio Room EQ, which is pretty amazing for the price.
Thanks so much for the reply it’s much appreciated! That a seriously impressive frequency response. I’ll check out MathAudio... I’m currently using sonarworks having done as much as I can with room acoustics, so had been considering Trinnov as the next step. However the Kii might just go onto my wish list instead! Thanks again!
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2322
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animesh Raval View Post
Thanks so much for the reply it’s much appreciated! That a seriously impressive frequency response. I’ll check out MathAudio... I’m currently using sonarworks having done as much as I can with room acoustics, so had been considering Trinnov as the next step. However the Kii might just go onto my wish list instead! Thanks again!
MatchAudio sounds much better than SW. Give it a pop!

Selling my Trinnov now.
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2323
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
MatchAudio sounds much better than SW. Give it a pop!

Selling my Trinnov now.
I certainly will! Just been reading about Dirac Live and AudioVero Acourate as well this morning, so might have to have a “room EQ” shootout soon :-) thanks again for the tips, I hope you have a great day!
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2324
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animesh Raval View Post
I certainly will! Just been reading about Dirac Live and AudioVero Acourate as well this morning, so might have to have a “room EQ” shootout soon :-) thanks again for the tips, I hope you have a great day!
Ah you must be on Windows then. Acourite is meant to be very good, that would be my first port of call.

Have fun with the shootout :¬)
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2325
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Ah you must be on Windows then. Acourite is meant to be very good, that would be my first port of call.

Have fun with the shootout :¬)
Oh! No I’m on Mac, I didn’t realise Acourate was windows only ... oops!
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2326
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animesh Raval View Post
Oh! No I’m on Mac, I didn’t realise Acourate was windows only ... oops!
Yes, a shame. It can be run via Parallels etc but then you're talking extra CPU/latency. For playback only it would be fine, but production/mixing and mastering - not optimal.

Be sure to check out Slate VSX (Archon/ATC emulations) too. Sounds very similar to this room/setup. Quite amazing what they've achieved.

Last edited by b0se; 6th October 2020 at 10:35 AM..
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #2327
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Yes, a shame. It can be run via Parallels etc but then you're talking extra CPU/latency. For playback only it would be fine, but production/mixing and mastering - not optimal.

Be sure to check out Slate VSX (Archon/ATC emulations) too. Sounds very similar to this room/setup. Quite amazing what they're achieved.
Thanks man, yes I’m definitely going to be checking out Slate VSX. I’ve previously been sceptical about binaural systems with the “one-size-fits-all” HRTF approach, but making it a hardware system with the reference headphones changes the game in that respect. If they brought out a support product that measures an individuals HRTF and outputs a calibration file for the software, that would be outstanding! Thanks again for all your help it’s very much appreciated!
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2328
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I just received my Kii Three’s but they came with European power cables? I’m in the states.
Does anyone know where I can get replacement or even better sounding power cables? Preferably with rush shipping lol
So sad I finally got these beautiful monitors and can’t even set them up yet. 2020 right
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2329
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What's the diff between European power cables, and USA power cables?
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2330
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
What's the diff between European power cables, and USA power cables?
Different prongs. European cables don’t plug into an American outlet
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2331
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbinoctuplets View Post
Different prongs. European cables don’t plug into an American outlet
Ahhh - diff prongs... gotcha.
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2332
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Also just realized that they’re 230v instead of 115v and cannot be changed except by the factory so yeah I’m screwed...
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2333
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbinoctuplets View Post
Also just realized that they’re 230v instead of 115v and cannot be changed except by the factory so yeah I’m screwed...
:') I feel for you, how many weeks will it take to the new pair?
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2334
Here for the gear
 
@ bassbinoctuplets I think you need to provide further information and disclosures in your post. Did you purchase used or new, if purchased used and from Europe, surely commonsense would suggest the voltage would be 230v. If purchased new and from a US dealer, I would have thought illegal to sell an incorrect voltage electrical equipment in the US, if purchased from Europe, surely the dealer would have known you require 110v if being shipped to the US. I’m not in any way associated with Kii Audio, but you do owe Kii Audio and their authorised dealers some explaination here. Reads like you are accusing them with something of their doing.
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2335
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbinoctuplets View Post
Also just realized that they’re 230v instead of 115v and cannot be changed except by the factory so yeah I’m screwed...
Oooof :(
Old 13th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2336
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig1512 View Post
@ bassbinoctuplets I think you need to provide further information and disclosures in your post. Did you purchase used or new, if purchased used and from Europe, surely commonsense would suggest the voltage would be 230v. If purchased new and from a US dealer, I would have thought illegal to sell an incorrect voltage electrical equipment in the US, if purchased from Europe, surely the dealer would have known you require 110v if being shipped to the US. I’m not in any way associated with Kii Audio, but you do owe Kii Audio and their authorised dealers some explaination here. Reads like you are accusing them with something of their doing.
Don’t know where you got that idea. Obviously it’s not Kii’s fault, nor did I imply that it was. I bought them new from a European dealer. Yes the dealer should have known this considering they ship worldwide but they did not disclose this prior to purchase or I would have bought them from someone else. They told me to get a voltage converter. If I purchased in the US I would not be having this problem.

I did not even think about voltage when ordering since I have never ran into this issue before. They do not have a switch to change voltage either. I spoke with Kii and they too suggested getting a voltage converter. Apparently it’s not as simple as just opening them up and flipping a switch to convert it to the proper voltage internally either. And I will have to pay for the shipping and to have this done. Either way it sucks for me.
Old 14th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2337
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbinoctuplets View Post
Don’t know where you got that idea. Obviously it’s not Kii’s fault, nor did I imply that it was. I bought them new from a European dealer. Yes the dealer should have known this considering they ship worldwide but they did not disclose this prior to purchase or I would have bought them from someone else. They told me to get a voltage converter. If I purchased in the US I would not be having this problem.

I did not even think about voltage when ordering since I have never ran into this issue before. They do not have a switch to change voltage either. I spoke with Kii and they too suggested getting a voltage converter. Apparently it’s not as simple as just opening them up and flipping a switch to convert it to the proper voltage internally either. And I will have to pay for the shipping and to have this done. Either way it sucks for me.
There is nothing special about the cables, they just have different prongs.You can buy adapters for the prongs or just go to any electronics store and get a US version-they are standard power cables that don't cost much.

The European dealer shouldn't have sent the units to the States; at the very least they should have clarified the power issue with you first. They should take them back and give you a full refund.Then buy the US model. Ask Kii to help you with this as it is a dealer failure.

That said, lots of audio and electronic equipment isn't universal regarding power. You buy a five figure item from Europe without knowing it can be used in the States? I check, even when buying a $20 item.
Old 14th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2338
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedog View Post
There is nothing special about the cables, they just have different prongs.You can buy adapters for the prongs or just go to any electronics store and get a US version-they are standard power cables that don't cost much.

The European dealer shouldn't have sent the units to the States; at the very least they should have clarified the power issue with you first. They should take them back and give you a full refund.Then buy the US model. Ask Kii to help you with this as it is a dealer failure.

That said, lots of audio and electronic equipment isn't universal regarding power. You buy a five figure item from Europe without knowing it can be used in the States? I check, even when buying a $20 item.
Yeah the cables aren’t really the problem like I thought originally. It’s the voltage. I can return them but shipping will be expensive and take a while. Then I’ll still have to buy another pair. After having to wait as long as I did for these that’s not really ideal.

I did not think to check the voltage. Most expensive electronics that have different voltages usually have a switch to change voltage. These do not. An expensive oversight on my part I guess.
Old 14th November 2020
  #2339
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puriteaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Ask Kii to change the voltage?
Keith
Old 14th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2340
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
Ask Kii to change the voltage?
Keith
I have talked with them. They said it’s not going to be cheap. Apparently it’s a pretty complicated process. But I think that’s the best option. I don’t feel comfortable plugging them into a third party voltage converter longterm.
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