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Kii Three-Have you heard them?
Old 29th May 2020
  #2251
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
I will actually call Kii and ask them if that is true because I would really like to know.

I would bet my ethernet cables that clocking doesn't make it to the final D-A conversion, thus not having any influence in the sound at all. Would you bet your ethernet cables to that? hahah.

Greetings man.
Well.. my Ethernet cables were $8000, so no.. but I’d bet you a beer HAHA!
Old 29th May 2020
  #2252
Gear Addict
 

Now since we're finally talking about Trinnovs and Kii - my Kii Three satellite speaker Trinnov chart looked basically like POTUS's.

OK, so is anyone out there using a Kii Three BXT with Trinnov like I'm trying to do unsuccessfully? In fact, what is anyone at all doing for analysis and calibration with a BXT setup?

.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2253
Gear Nut
 

I've been doing very extensive fuzz measuring.

What's the smoothing on those trinnov graphs btw? (and given that FR is only one part of the picture, it would be great to see some waterfalls.

I do know that the floor bounce situation was very real for my system, and the BXT's almost eradicated that issue - it was pretty amazing.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2254
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosculpture12 View Post
I've been doing very extensive fuzz measuring.

What's the smoothing on those trinnov graphs btw? (and given that FR is only one part of the picture, it would be great to see some waterfalls.

I do know that the floor bounce situation was very real for my system, and the BXT's almost eradicated that issue - it was pretty amazing.
It is 1/3 Octave for my measurement, the standard on Trinnov.
Phase was really good as well but the the rest of the graphs I don't understand, that is why I want to study the Trinnov and how it works, possibly also look into REW or Acourate.

Anyway, as I said, mine are placed in a garage per se, so I have a way too long decay time and no reflexion absorption whatsoever in any place. It is all naked walls and floor.

PM if I can help you with any references.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2255
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
Well.. my Ethernet cables were $8000, so no.. but I’d bet you a beer HAHA!
Ok so I just hung up the phone with the great guys at Kii. This guy is so patient and explains everything in such detail, it really helps. Thank you man if you are reading!

He just confirmed what I told you, the ethernet cables do not affect sound in any way. Measurable or not.

When fed digital signal (as you stated), the sample rate will change (as you said), but all the signal will always be re-clocked by the ARSC software simulation. So that renders whichever cable you use irrelevant.

If there ever was a possibility to clock the converters inside the Kii to an external clock they would have implemented a port for it, don't you think? But they haven't because such thing is not possible. The Kii can not be re-clocked by an external source of any type.

Again, the ethernet cables you use are as irrelevant to their sound as the lunch you had before listening to them, actually your lunch could be more relevant to how you hear them (actually affects blood pressure and mood), but it will never effectively affect their sound, and so won't the cables, IN ANY WAY, CONFIRMED BY KII THEMSELVES.

You could either call your lawyer and sue you audio dealer or blackmail him in exchange for a BXT hahahahah

Again, this is straight from the guys who designed the system. I think you should reconsider and admit that you have been ROBBED 8000 bucks for a pair of flat bulky ethernet cables that will likely end up breaking the ports on the Kii.

Man that must be a pretty hard pill to swallow. Why didn't you call Kii before doing such a thing.

Damn all these cable sellers scamming people. You could have bought the BXT's with that money man. What a pity. I hope you understand.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2256
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
Now since we're finally talking about Trinnovs and Kii - my Kii Three satellite speaker Trinnov chart looked basically like POTUS's.

OK, so is anyone out there using a Kii Three BXT with Trinnov like I'm trying to do unsuccessfully? In fact, what is anyone at all doing for analysis and calibration with a BXT setup?

.
Why don't you call them? I spent like 22 minutes talking to them today so I didn't want to ask any more questions, but I am pretty sure they will help you out. I would love to know because hopefully I will get the BXTs eventually. One can dream hahah And also a pair of D&D 8C for the living room hahahah
Old 29th May 2020
  #2257
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
Ok so I just hung up the phone with the great guys at Kii. This guy is so patient and explains everything in such detail, it really helps. Thank you man if you are reading!

He just confirmed what I told you, the ethernet cables do not affect sound in any way. Measurable or not.

When fed digital signal (as you stated), the sample rate will change (as you said), but all the signal will always be re-clocked by the ARSC software simulation. So that renders whichever cable you use irrelevant.

If there ever was a possibility to clock the converters inside the Kii to an external clock they would have implemented a port for it, don't you think? But they haven't because such thing is not possible. The Kii can not be re-clocked by an external source of any type.

Again, the ethernet cables you use are as irrelevant to their sound as the lunch you had before listening to them, actually your lunch could be more relevant to how you hear them (actually affects blood pressure and mood), but it will never effectively affect their sound, and so won't the cables, IN ANY WAY, CONFIRMED BY KII THEMSELVES.

You could either call your lawyer and sue you audio dealer or blackmail him in exchange for a BXT hahahahah

Again, this is straight from the guys who designed the system. I think you should reconsider and admit that you have been ROBBED 8000 bucks for a pair of flat bulky ethernet cables that will likely end up breaking the ports on the Kii.

Man that must be a pretty hard pill to swallow. Why didn't you call Kii before doing such a thing.

Damn all these cable sellers scamming people. You could have bought the BXT's with that money man. What a pity. I hope you understand.
Trust me, if you think the cables are outrageous then you'd think my full lifestyle, especially my Pro Audio rig which is wired with all premium cables, is absurd

Here's something you can view on YouTube through your Kii that you may find interesting... This is an AudioQuest power strip demo... just from the video, Audiophiles can clearly hear the demonstration differences.. common folks won't understand or hear any difference.. There's a high-end market for this stuff for a reason.. the reason being that people buy it.. sure, there's some snake oil floating around.. but at it's core, the results behind it all are very real...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_bJTMD5_aI

-This is just one part of the overall factor affecting sound quality. If there's any doubt this is true, just read the comments.. and sure there's some people who can't tell, and those are the people who simply don't buy... but... as you'll see, there's people that can easily hear the differences.. even over YouTube... If you're playing high-resolution music on your Kiis and can't close your eyes and feel like you're in the middle of the music, the music being "3D", then you may want to explore some better accessories for your Kii setup.

Here's another "cable" video.. I personally can hear the differences even over YouTube.. people like my wife wouldn't be able to discern a difference.. people like her have Sonos and feel the Sonos system sounds just as good as everything else:

https://youtu.be/PaJhsp_PG90?t=1194

Again, don't buy anything that doesn't provide you with noticeable experience value.

*Who buys a bespoke tailored suit and wear Wal-Mart shoes with it? The shoes are the first thing that matters, as does wire and power quality.

Last edited by DigitalDrugLord; 29th May 2020 at 04:39 PM..
Old 29th May 2020
  #2258
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
Why don't you call them? I spent like 22 minutes talking to them today so I didn't want to ask any more questions, but I am pretty sure they will help you out.
Who do you recommend that I call - Kii or Trinnov, the reference is not clear in your post - and what is a good number for them? I'd love to be able to call or communicate with anyone with experience in this issue.

If you mean Kii, I have communicated with the American distributor and am still awaiting a response. If you mean Trinnov, I doubt they know anything about BXT's.

I'd be quite surprised if I'm the only one on this forum thread that has BXT's and has considered calibrating them. I just want to know what people use and/or if they've been able to successfully use a Trinnov with a BXT. The Trinnov works splendidly with just the Kii Three satellite speaker - as I've been doing since 2017.

.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2259
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
I have not watched the video, but respect to those who can clearly hear differences in cables/power strips THROUGH YOUTUBE COMPRESSION I bet it’s clearly labled when each example is playing so you know just how much better it sounds.
Old 29th May 2020
  #2260
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy View Post
I have not watched the video, but respect to those who can clearly hear differences in cables/power strips THROUGH YOUTUBE COMPRESSION I bet it’s clearly labled when each example is playing so you know just how much better it sounds.
All due respect: I looked at your website (its nice) and listened to some of your Spotify songs which are playing highly compressed in a web player. So you would trust your own catalog work through compression and not give regard to a YouTube demonstration through compression?
Old 30th May 2020
  #2261
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
Who do you recommend that I call - Kii or Trinnov, the reference is not clear in your post - and what is a good number for them? I'd love to be able to call or communicate with anyone with experience in this issue. If you mean Kii, I have communicated with the American distributor and am still awaiting a response. If you mean Trinnov, I doubt they know anything about BXT's. .
I would say call Kii Germany, I just called the number on the webpage. They guy on charge of the phone is boss, I might come across as a shill but man after spending all the dough on the speakers it is so cool to have someone that actually listens to you as a customer and cares about your inquiries. PM for the phone number, but I think it is on the webpage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
I'd be quite surprised if I'm the only one on this forum thread that has BXT's and has considered calibrating them. I just want to know what people use and/or if they've been able to successfully use a Trinnov with a BXT. The Trinnov works splendidly with just the Kii Three satellite speaker - as I've been doing since 2017.
For all I know this forum seems to be full of people who actually don't know how the heck their systems work, nor do they care about it. So keep your expectations low man because we have a few geniuses in here but those are probably busy doing real life work.

Calling Trinnov wasn't such a good experience for me, they felt very distant and uninterested in my inquiries, but heck who am I to judge, also call them, you might be surprised.

I read the BXTs are borderline scy-fi when it comes to acoustic principles. They probably have a looooot of DSP going on under the hood. Man I feel so happy that Martijn Mensink and Bruno are kicking the **** out of many other audiophool companies.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2262
Gear Nut
Kii Threes use 93.75kHz internal sampling rate. Of course that must be reclocked. So any jitter on the outside can't get through to the drivers.

Therefore cables cannot make any difference, and someone has been conned by someone. Himself. He should now shut up and pay up on his bet with POTUS.

He won't, of course. On either point.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2263
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrremlin View Post
Kii Threes use 93.75kHz internal sampling rate.
Read the High-End GS rules:

High-End Forum Guidelines - UPDATED!

I've reported you for violation of the High-End section and tossed you in my ignore list. Thank you to the other GS member that also flagged this user.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2264
Gear Head
 

Acc'd to what has been said publicly, the Kiis resample everything to 93.75khz because
Quote:
"... the sampling rate is set to 93.75kHz instead
of one of the more traditional audio rates. This is specifically
done to improve the performance of the SRC chip.
An uncommon clock frequency reduces the odds that mix
products between the incoming clock and the internal
clock fall inside the PLL loop bandwidth of the SRC."
https://www.kiiaudio.com/media/GENER...n818lowrez.pdf

The above quote is from a white paper about Bruno's LS1 speaker, but the same reasoning exists for the same reason in the Kiis.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2265
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
All due respect: I looked at your website (its nice) and listened to some of your Spotify songs which are playing highly compressed in a web player. So you would trust your own catalog work through compression and not give regard to a YouTube demonstration through compression?
My website doesn’t convert strangers to clients, that’s pretty usual for a lot of mix and mastering work, they come based on word of mouth or earlier work. My clients are usually already listening to my previous material on their own, including Vinyl, Tidal or wherever they listen, including music videos with Youtube compression.

I also hope people open the playlist in their own Spotify player, then they can also get to hear the full songs. I had the playlist on Tidal but not many in my genres use it. I think a mix is different than a comparison too. I might get a hi quality player there if the site gets more traffic.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2266
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post

Audiophiles can clearly hear the demonstration differences.. common folks won't understand or hear any difference.. There's a high-end market for this stuff for a reason.. the reason being that people buy it.

Here's another "cable" video.. I personally can hear the differences even over YouTube.. people like my wife wouldn't be able to discern a difference.. people like her have Sonos and feel the Sonos system sounds just as good as everything else:

https://youtu.be/PaJhsp_PG90?t=1194
Ignoring the arrogance of that post, the only thing you can hear in that video is the (obvious) difference in volume between the AB comparison. For the hell of it I downloaded the audio and checked. The 'pro' cable section is 2dB louder than the cheaper, monster cable.

That's an absurd amount, even 0.1dB will sway results.

Either the volume was turned up at the show, or the audio was manipulated before being posting online. Either way, it's deceitful, and designed to fool people like yourself. Clearly it worked.

The ironic thing is that anyone with an informed ear would hear such a difference and request the levels to be matched, as to allow proper critical listening. You however, fell for the oldest (and most basic) trick in the book, louder equals better, without even realising it.

You've just demonstrated that you don't grasp the most basic tenets of critical listening, while putting down anyone not at your supposed level of experience/ability.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2267
Here for the gear
 

I don't even know why the heck I took the time to try to show him that he has been robbed and scammed.
But at least he should stop spreading misinformation.

It could lead many to keep on buying ridiculous pieces of equipment such as 8K ethernet cables.

With all due respect you went FROM:

My 8k ethernet cables improve the sound so much

TO

Who cares about the sound I just buy them because my lifestyle is outrageous.


I am happy that you have money but it makes me sad how money can make people stop being rational and actually cling onto their nonsense.

It's as if you were slamming your pen**s with a hammer because someone told you it will make you live longer.
Then you are proven wrong and don't seem to be able to openly admit it.
And finally you continue to do it because who cares you are a savage.

It really is sad.

God bless everyone.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2268
Here for the gear
 

Would anyone who has the original Kii stands be so kind to measure them for me?

I will attach a picture with a handmade blueprint to help if anyone is willing to take the measurements for me. I know this might take some time but I would really appreciate it.

I can't afford to buy the original ones right now and will build ones myself to be able to get them off my desktop.

Many thanks to anyone who is willing to go through the hassle for me.
Attached Thumbnails
Kii Three-Have you heard them?-nuevo-doc-2020-05-30-16.49.18_1.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 30th May 2020
  #2269
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
Don’t know if he actually paid that much or if he’s just trolling. Hoping the latter.

I really don’t hope such expensive cables even exists. Internet with crazy bandwith works fine on standard cables, why on earth should tiny amounts of audio data, which isn’t even real time in this case, care about the cable?
Old 30th May 2020
  #2270
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Ignoring the arrogance of that post, the only thing you can hear in that video is the (obvious) difference in volume between the AB comparison. For the hell of it I downloaded the audio and checked. The 'pro' cable section is 2dB louder than the cheaper, monster cable.

That's an absurd amount, even 0.1dB will sway results.

Either the volume was turned up at the show, or the audio was manipulated before being posting online. Either way, it's deceitful, and designed to fool people like yourself. Clearly it worked.

The ironic thing is that anyone with an informed ear would hear such a difference and request the levels to be matched, as to allow proper critical listening. You however, fell for the oldest (and most basic) trick in the book, louder equals better, without even realising it.

You've just demonstrated that you don't grasp the most basic tenets of critical listening, while putting down anyone not at your supposed level of experience/ability.
I couldn’t find your music distributed on any high-fi platforms so can you provide a link where it may be so I can review what you’re demonstrating in support of your comments that you have any concept of high end audio? Is your content linked in your signature available in at least 16-bit 44.1?

If you’re listening to a Spotify or Apple Music on Kii, for one, IMO, don’t invest in Kiis for mobile grade audio.. let along begin to concern yourself with cable options.

I don’t listen to Spotify or Apple Music on my Kii system ever.. so we’re likely in 2 different baskets of users and are not communicating with the same source material references.

Now, if you want to test your insults against me, how about you and I put up $1000 PayPal (For a charity of GS member choice) each and you choose any song in the world with multi tracks and we can put our Pro Audio rigs to the test to see who can produce the best Kii material? Since you want to feel good about yourself with insults, is this an Audiophile forum or an engineering forum? Are you going to man up or go complain more about my cable choices? My engineering rig cost much than the cables you’re stuck on.. I ensure you.

I’m only accused of being arrogant to bullies.. you can even make it one of your songs.. whatever.. let me know what you want to do and who’s going to be the escrow holder.

I’ll open this up to anyone else that feel strong about this route cables has taken.. don’t talk to me any more about the decision, come beat me where it matters.. put me in my place sonically on my Kiis with material you produce.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2271
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy View Post
Don’t know if he actually paid that much or if he’s just trolling. Hoping the latter.

I really don’t hope such expensive cables even exists. Internet with crazy bandwith works fine on standard cables, why on earth should tiny amounts of audio data, which isn’t even real time in this case, care about the cable?
Trolling? I have a 10 year (about to be 15 year) GS badge.. I’m talking about high-end subjects in the High-End section of GS.. and so now, I’m taking about us placing our money and skills where our mouths are.. I’ve made it very easy to see what I’m about.. anyone here with Kiis can obviously afford some charity fun.. any song, anywhere in the world.. replace the insults and leave the cable envy alone or step up and out mix me on Kii level material.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2272
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
I couldn’t find your music distributed on any high-fi platforms so can you provide a link where it may be so I can review what you’re demonstrating in support of your comments that you have any concept of high end audio? Is your content linked in your signature available in at least 16-bit 44.1?

If you’re listening to a Spotify or Apple Music on Kii, for one, IMO, don’t invest in Kiis for mobile grade audio.. let along begin to concern yourself with cable options.

I don’t listen to Spotify or Apple Music on my Kii system ever.. so we’re likely in 2 different baskets of users and are not communicating with the same source material references.

Now, if you want to test your insults against me, how about you and I put up $1000 PayPal (For a charity of GS member choice) each and you choose any song in the world with multi tracks and we can put our Pro Audio rigs to the test to see who can produce the best Kii material? Since you want to feel good about yourself with insults, is this an Audiophile forum or an engineering forum? Are you going to man up or go complain more about my cable choices? My engineering rig cost much than the cables you’re stuck on.. I ensure you.

I’m only accused of being arrogant to bullies.. you can even make it one of your songs.. whatever.. let me know what you want to do and who’s going to be the escrow holder.

I’ll open this up to anyone else that feel strong about this route cables has taken.. don’t talk to me any more about the decision, come beat me where it matters.. put me in my place sonically on my Kiis with material you produce.
So you are trying to discredit engineering facts about cables not being relevant when used with the Kii system based on the "mixing?" engineering skills of someone?
Old 30th May 2020
  #2273
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
So you are trying to discredit engineering facts about cables not being relevant when used with the Kii system based on the "mixing?" engineering skills of someone?
This is an engineering forum.. yes, because I now need to hear where my concept about good quality audio experience has gone astray from the “professionals” ranks accusing it as so.

The only “engineering facts” that matter now is how good does the fact slingers own material sound on Kiis..

I’m not the guy to bully... this has moved to a bullying level over what, expensive “cables?”.

I’d rather the feelings of angst be over actual Kii targeted material than cables.

I’ll tell you what, my soundcloud is attached.. which I use as a summing reference for my group’s work.. there’s several Cambridge Music Technology songs on there, take any one, review on Kii and then take as long as anyone want, provide your own version and embarrass my clueless self..

There’s no insults left, choose one, mix it, make me regret the day I ever decided to use my Kiis to review my own work.

It’s just as simple as that...
Old 30th May 2020
  #2274
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
Trolling? I have a 10 year (about to be 15 year) GS badge.. I’m talking about high-end subjects in the High-End section of GS.. and so now, I’m taking about us placing our money and skills where our mouths are.. I’ve made it very easy to see what I’m about.. anyone here with Kiis can obviously afford some charity fun.. any song, anywhere in the world.. replace the insults and leave the cable envy alone or step up and out mix me on Kii level material.
everyone: cables don't affect the sound of the Kii Three system
DigitalDrugLord: out mix me! I dare you!

I wish Serban Ghenea entered the chat with his ITB rig and ProAcs 100 hahaha. Talk about 10k VGA cables for the screen, that guy really knows what he is doing.

Why so angry man.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2275
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
everyone: cables don't affect the sound of the Kii Three system
DigitalDrugLord: out mix me! I dare you!

I wish Serban Ghenea entered the chat with his ITB rig and ProAcs 100 hahaha. Talk about 10k VGA cables for the screen, that guy really knows what he is doing.

Why so angry man.
Yes, DDL goes Nuclear!

Not angry at all, I'm just saying, cables? Cmon, we are all here mostly owners of Kiis, for a reason.. I don't understand how a owner accessorise "high-end" gear should be discussed this deep when everyone is paying $$$$ for the Kiis themselves. A Trinnov is $5000... to me anyone investing in Kii shouldn't seem abnormal for them to also invest in something that cost $5000 to go with it. I'm not the only owner with Kii Stands.. sure any Amazon speaker stand works, but... the question is can you enjoy looking at the speakers knowing the Kii stands exist?

If someone would have suggested Sonarworks is just the same as Trinnov, I'd disagree just as Nuclear... So if Sonarworks is not the same as Trinnov, then there's a possibility that other parts can be not the same also, no?
Old 30th May 2020
  #2276
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
Yes, DDL goes Nuclear!

Not angry at all, I'm just saying, cables? Cmon, we are all here mostly owners of Kiis, for a reason.. I don't understand how a owner accessorise "high-end" gear should be discussed this deep when everyone is paying $$$$ for the Kiis themselves. A Trinnov is $5000... to me anyone investing in Kii shouldn't seem abnormal for them to also invest in something that cost $5000 to go with it. I'm not the only owner with Kii Stands.. sure any Amazon speaker stand works, but... the question is can you enjoy looking at the speakers knowing the Kii stands exist?

If someone would have suggested Sonarworks is just the same as Trinnov, I'd disagree just as Nuclear... So if Sonarworks is not the same as Trinnov, then there's a possibility that other parts can be not the same also, no?
Well certainly the point is not the money but rather evading scientific facts.

While cables might have an influence in more basic setups, Kii specifically told me that they designed the system so that there was no room for user misuse.

Do you understand that just by design there is no way that a different power cable or ethernet cable can affect the sound of them?

They don't recommend using power conditioners either as they could kill the dynamics of the speakers when they need the juice at high volumes. They are fool-proof speakers much like the best equipment in the world is. It is designed to leave no room for user error or misuse.

That room for user error is where the whole audiophile world grows and lives and it is a never ending rabbit hole. Infinite configurations that just alter the sound in unexpected ways BECAUSE OF A LACK OF STANDARDS like the ones you find IN THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD (AES-EBU...)

Lack of standards is the main feature and growing soil of the audiophile market.

Kii explicitly said that they don't want to be part of that world and they designed their systems accordingly. No room for snake-oil anywhere near these systems.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2277
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
Well certainly the point is not the money but rather evading scientific facts.

While cables might have an influence in more basic setups, Kii specifically told me that they designed the system so that there was no room for user misuse.

Do you understand that just by design there is no way that a different power cable or ethernet cable can affect the sound of them?

They don't recommend using power conditioners either as they could kill the dynamics of the speakers when they need the juice at high volumes. They are fool-proof speakers much like the best equipment in the world is. It is designed to leave no room for user error or misuse.

That room for user error is where the whole audiophile world grows and lives and it is a never ending rabbit hole. Infinite configurations that just alter the sound in unexpected ways BECAUSE OF A LACK OF STANDARDS like the ones you find IN THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD (AES-EBU...)

Lack of standards is the main feature and growing soil of the audiophile market.

Kii explicitly said that they don't want to be part of that world and they designed their systems accordingly. No room for snake-oil anywhere near these systems.
I agree with everything you’re saying here. And I’m sure someone in the inexpensive GS section feels the same way about speakers like Kii or D&D in comparison to Yamaha HS7 which itself is a fantastic reference speaker.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2278
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
I agree with everything you’re saying here. And I’m sure someone in the inexpensive GS section feels the same way about speakers like Kii or D&D in comparison to Yamaha HS7 which itself is a fantastic reference speaker.
Yeah well I tried to skimp on buying expensive speakers, I tried the headphone route for mixing with devastating results to my hearing. I didn't lose any but for a year or more those freaking headphones created an oversensitivy in my hearing that made me lose sleep and spend days and days taking pills to try to cope with the anxiety this brought. I hate to even remember those days. Audeze headphones in particular did something to my hearing. It is weird but it very much affected me.

Then I contemplated going the Amphion route but a friend of mine had to take painkillers after mixing with them because they were like freaking razor blades in your ears, no matter what volume you worked at.

And then I was torn between the Kii and D&D and chose Kii because they were the best at low volume and even if you crank them up there is no way this will fatigue you. They are so non-fatiguing it is amazing. Never heard any other speaker that was so low fatigue. Even Quested with the soft domes wasn't as non-fatiguing as these (for me).

That is why I think that they are worth it. If you are going to have to work to make a living at least protect your health.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2279
Gear Maniac
 
DigitalDrugLord's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by POTUS View Post
Yeah well I tried to skimp on buying expensive speakers, I tried the headphone route for mixing with devastating results to my hearing. I didn't lose any but for a year or more those freaking headphones created an oversensitivy in my hearing that made me lose sleep and spend days and days taking pills to try to cope with the anxiety this brought. I hate to even remember those days. Audeze headphones in particular did something to my hearing. It is weird but it very much affected me.

Then I contemplated going the Amphion route but a friend of mine had to take painkillers after mixing with them because they were like freaking razor blades in your ears, no matter what volume you worked at.

And then I was torn between the Kii and D&D and chose Kii because they were the best at low volume and even if you crank them up there is no way this will fatigue you. They are so non-fatiguing it is amazing. Never heard any other speaker that was so low fatigue. Even Quested with the soft domes wasn't as non-fatiguing as these (for me).

That is why I think that they are worth it. If you are going to have to work to make a living at least protect your health.
Well, we're similar here.. many (many) years ago, I thought I could get my mixes done with only Sennheiser 650.. and the same as you, the real-world results wasn't standing up.. so I stepped up to HS7 when I started building my final rig when I moved into my current home.. Then I found the Focal Twin6 Be which with the Sub and Trinnov is my trusted mixing config... I gave my HS7 to a buddy when I went Focal but just 2 weeks ago, added HS5 back as my 2nd button monitoring with Aventones being my 3rd button...

The Kiis beat out the Barefoot MM26 I purchased for my high-end listening playback.. Both of which I've only used with digital sources. The only reason I accessorized my Kiis as I've done is because I need no doubt that the work I output can reference on the most insane Audiophile invested systems.. up in the 6-figures... placing all top end components on my Kiis gives me the confidence that what I hear coming out of them is what anyone with any insane level system above it will hear and so far, that's worked out 100% for my work in TV and Film.

The Focals gives me the reference assurance for translations on system moving down the consumer playback scale. I needed something that would give me reference for high-end systems moving upscale and the Kiis for me provide it.
Old 30th May 2020
  #2280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDrugLord View Post
Well, we're similar here.. many (many) years ago, I thought I could get my mixes done with only Sennheiser 650.. and the same as you, the real-world results wasn't standing up.. so I stepped up to HS7 when I started building my final rig when I moved into my current home.. Then I found the Focal Twin6 Be which with the Sub and Trinnov is my trusted mixing config... I gave my HS7 to a buddy when I went Focal but just 2 weeks ago, added HS5 back as my 2nd button monitoring with Aventones being my 3rd button...

The Kiis beat out the Barefoot MM26 I purchased for my high-end listening playback.. Both of which I've only used with digital sources. The only reason I accessorized my Kiis as I've done is because I need no doubt that the work I output can reference on the most insane Audiophile invested systems.. up in the 6-figures... placing all top end components on my Kiis gives me the confidence that what I hear coming out of them is what anyone with any insane level system above it will hear and so far, that's worked out 100% for my work in TV and Film.

The Focals gives me the reference assurance for translations on system moving down the consumer playback scale. I needed something that would give me reference for high-end systems moving upscale and the Kiis for me provide it.
That is very well thought out. I am certainly just starting out and just plan on mixing. I am 25 and I live in Spain, which is pretty ****ed up economically. I don't really have high hopes on me making a living as a mixing guy, but time will tell, in the meantime I will just enjoy the ride.
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