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Kii Three-Have you heard them? Studio Monitors
Old 1 week ago
  #1171
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
Too sterile and emotionless for my taste and they didn't really compel me to make decisions, but they were high quality and I can see why they work well for people who like a more clinical sounding monitor.
Yes next to the Amphions the Kiis are clinical sounding. They are harder for me to connect emotionally to and this was reflected in work I have done exclusively on them. BUT those upper mids are very useful IMO, especially after you get the broad balance done using the Amphions.

Btw I see you are finally selling your Prism converters. Curious to know what replaced them? Let me guess, Solaris on the monitor and transfer DACs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
Although unlike mpr mine are not side to side. I tried that first but ended up with the Kii's directly above the Amphions.
.
wow, that’s a super tall stack! Maybe I’ll give it a shot if the Kiis stay in my room.

I was thinking about putting the Kiis in studio A to replace the BFs but I worry how well they would take the constant pounding of live drum mics? The BFs are the best tracking monitors I’ve ever used, loud, clear and deep, but no one wants to mix on them anymore. :(
Old 1 week ago
  #1172
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I don't have Mark's ears or experience (and have huge respect for said things), but I found the Amphions to sound veiled in comparison to the Kii's. Returned them after the 30 days was up. I have no issues finding an emotional connection to the sound, in fact I'm often covered in goosebumps or shedding a tear (as a listener), and still find myself just listening, for hours :¬)

Mark is a pro mastering engineer (who I'll hire for my own music!). I'm just a (serious) hobbyist - producing, mixing, writing, singing.

YMMV, 2c and all that! We all have different ears :¬)
Old 1 week ago
  #1173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
This is pretty much my experience also. Although unlike mpr mine are not side to side. I tried that first but ended up with the Kii's directly above the Amphions. That way the triangle was the same distance.

This combination is not an inexpensive way to go (especially adding in the Trinnov) but it's proved to be very effective. Putting your money first into monitoring seems like the highest priority if you're a mixer or mastering engineer.

That way you'll be better educated as to what future purchases should be.

.
Hi Jack, regarding the Trinnov graph you posted, I suppose you had BaseOne connected when doing that measurement?

Or is this the corrected response by Trinnov?

Because I have worked with Two18s extensivelly in two rooms (still do) and also written in my post above, that once Two18s are added the system becomes great, but without the subs the bass is not so even.

EDIT: Ok, have read again your post and noticed that your measurements were done without BaseOne. I admit, I'm surprised by your results but it is also true that the picture is not of great resolution and might include some smoothing. I see some 5dB dips there, but still, I suppose you must have pretty strong low end reinforcement from your room to achieve such a response, because I experience quite significant roll-off below 40Hz.
Old 1 week ago
  #1174
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
I don't have Mark's ears or experience (and have huge respect for said things), but I found the Amphions to sound veiled in comparison to the Kii's. Returned them after the 30 days was up. I have no issues finding an emotional connection to the sound, in fact I'm often covered in goosebumps or shedding a tear (as a listener), and still find myself just listening, for hours :¬)

Mark is a pro mastering engineer (who I'll hire for my own music!). I'm just a (serious) hobbyist - producing, mixing, writing, singing.

YMMV, 2c and all that! We all have different ears :¬)
By emotional connection I was referring to the emotional feedback the monitors give us, not the realism they deliver into the room. Yes, the Kiis are more real sounding to me (across a wide range of music), so we agree there. Goosebumps and all.

When you get a grok on the Amphions, they begin to speak to you. This connection is what guides us, and I refer to it as an emotional connection. I could not find the same connection with the Kii's even after 6 months, but I admire them for how amazing they sound.

Many great engineers that I know talk about their connection to their speakers in these terms, even speakers that do not deliver the greatest sense of realism into the room (like NS10s).

Some engineers are more emotionally driven while others are more mentally driven, with all of us having varying degrees of both. So there is no 'right and wrong' here, but certain speakers cater to either side more than others. For me the Amphions serve my emotional side more so than the Kii's, which appeal more to my analytical brain.
Old 1 week ago
  #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr View Post
Yes next to the Amphions the Kiis are clinical sounding. They are harder for me to connect emotionally to and this was reflected in work I have done exclusively on them. BUT those upper mids are very useful IMO, especially after you get the broad balance done using the Amphions.

Btw I see you are finally selling your Prism converters. Curious to know what replaced them? Let me guess, Solaris on the monitor and transfer DACs?
I didn't actually compare the Kii's to the Two18's directly. I can absolutely agree that the Kii's had plenty of useful information in them, but I don't believe they live up to what has been written about them in this thread. They really sound like what I would imagine a next generation Genelec to sound like. They are very much in that camp and I just don't care for that sound. So I guess my thoughts would be that regardless of what you use, if you aren't a fan of newer Genelcs the Kii's may not be for you.

As far as the Prism's are concerned, I definitely did not replace them with the newer Crane Song stuff. In fact, I have the Avocet 2a and I compared the Quantum DAC to the Prism for monitoring and it was a no brainier to stick with the Prism. As I have stated in other threads, I'm not selling the Prism for reasons of fidelity. My opinion of it is exactly the same as it has always been and it is still the most true to source, high headroom convertor I have ever used or heard. I am selling it because I need more channels and I don't like the sound of externally clocking my convertors and I don't want to run two separate rigs. I run a full production studio that does everything from engineering to just mastering. So since I can't afford 24 channels of Prism I'm going to have to look elsewhere. I'm actually trying to figure out a way to integrate the Prism into my future rig and if I can, I won't sell it.
Old 1 week ago
  #1176
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shelterr,

OT...
Do you really have a pair of 813's?

.
Old 1 week ago
  #1177
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That new HEDD is looking a bit sexy though. Quite a jump ($) from the previous version.
Old 1 week ago
  #1178
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I find this conversation about emotional and clinical a bit over the top. They are speakers that display spectral balance and a full frequency bandwidth. I have also used the new genetics and do not think they sound like them at all. Oh well.

MPR, just an FYI, if you have your Kiis set up the way they are displayed on your website, your set up is distorting the acoustic intent of the Kii system. Maybe this is why they sound clinical to you?

Anyhow, you cannot have other speakers or objects directly to the left or right of the Kiis. The side speakers radiate sound and diffract lows and low-mids forward. By placing your Amphions directly next to the Kiis it will distort the low frequency diffraction and considerably augment the overall sound. I would fix that and give them another listen.
Old 1 week ago
  #1179
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft View Post
I find this conversation about emotional and clinical a bit over the top. They are speakers that display spectral balance and a full frequency bandwidth. I have also used the new genetics and do not think they sound like them at all. Oh well.

MPR, just an FYI, if you have your Kiis set up the way they are displayed on your website, your set up is distorting the acoustic intent of the Kii system. Maybe this is why they sound clinical to you?

Anyhow, you cannot have other speakers or objects directly to the left or right of the Kiis. The side speakers radiate sound and diffract lows and low-mids forward. By placing your Amphions directly next to the Kiis it will distort the low frequency diffraction and considerably augment the overall sound. I would fix that and give them another listen.
Thanks for your feedback. I have been testing them solo vs side by side for months now, and I do agree the sound changes, and I notice Trinnov has to do different compensations which I can clearly see on the curves. I tend to work with just one set on the Baseone platforms from start to finish, but I have no problem checking masters on both with the Trinnov trying to adjust for the proximity.

FWIW the pic on my site is old and I now slide in the Sound Anchors to the outside of the Baseones when A/Bing. I feel the Kiis are more resilient to a wider stance than the Amphions when the side by side compromise is in effect. When I have mastered solely on the Kii's, I switched them to the pedestals and drop the Two18s down, but I've decided that is not going to happen again since the Amphions *clearly* produce better sounding masters (for me).

Regarding not having an emotional connection your speakers - I am not sure what to tell you. I have met a lot of engineers that are very mental in their approach. That is not my style, but I respect their process.
Old 1 week ago
  #1180
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I mean, come on. Yes, I have an emotional connection to my speakers. I am listening to music that breaks me into pieces. The speakers push the music to my body and change my feelings and emotions. Of course. But what is a speaker that makes you think clinically and not have emotion? I find that to be completely over the top and a ridiculous critique.

In short, yes, music is emotional and the speakers are what give me that emotion. I have no idea how a pair of speakers could make me feel clinical.
Old 1 week ago
  #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft View Post
I mean, come on. Yes, I have an emotional connection to my speakers. I am listening to music that breaks me into pieces. The speakers push the music to my body and change my feelings and emotions. Of course. But what is a speaker that makes you think clinically and not have emotion? I find that to be completely over the top and a ridiculous critique.

In short, yes, music is emotional and the speakers are what give me that emotion. I have no idea how a pair of speakers could make me feel clinical.
We are using words to describe sound. It's entirely expected that not everyone will understand the way everyone attempts to describe sound on an Internet forum. The use of the term clinical is an attempt to convey a type of sound (with context clues to emphasize the intended meaning). If the use of the world clinical doesn't resonate with you that's absolutely fine. But certainly there are other people reading posts that may find it useful in the context of the rest of a post.
Old 1 week ago
  #1182
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft View Post
In short, yes, music is emotional and the speakers are what give me that emotion. I have no idea how a pair of speakers could make me feel clinical.
I have compared the Kiis extensively to the Amphions, and for a long enough time period now that I know whats up (for me), and while the Kii's deliver stunning full spectrum realism and powerful emotion into the room, the Amphions somehow give me a better feeling of the mix itself.

It is very hard to explain, and the word 'clinical' only works in relation to something that is 'not clinical'. Not the best word choice, I agree, but it works in this contrast. Probably best to move on because both are great speakers. I would love to have a pair of Kiis at home more so than the Amphions. And I think my wife would agree.
Old 1 week ago
  #1183
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I wonder if Kiis vs conventional speaker comparison is a bit like the early tube vs LCD tv situation. I remember everybody getting very excited about the LCD technology until realising that the picture was perhaps too sharp and a little bit pixilated because the resolution wasn't high enough.
Tube TV looked smoother with colour bleed almost creating nice antialiasing effect.

Could it be why some people find the Kiis a little clinical, such a new sound that needs adjusting to?

I heard the Kiis at Keith's place, they do sound very different and I must say very impressive too, but I still prefer the sound of my ATC EL 150As with much better sound stage and more dynamic sound.
Of course, my ATCs need bigger room to sound at their best whereas the Kiis can sound great in smaller spaces.
Old 1 week ago
  #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft View Post
I find this conversation about emotional and clinical a bit over the top. They are speakers that display spectral balance and a full frequency bandwidth. I have also used the new genetics and do not think they sound like them at all. Oh well.
I think that these observations are perfectly valid and I concur with what mpr is saying, even though I haven't heard the Kii. I initially found the Amphion two18s to be too cold/clinical compared to the Duntech Sovereigns. The Duntechs are very big picture and sometimes it's better not to be overlaoded with detail as long as the speakers translate well, which the Duntechs do. So I get the clinical/emotional statement as I find even ATC SMC25s are more forgiving compared to the Amphion, sometimes leading to more musical enjoyment. If the Kii are even more clinical than the two18s then I'm not sure my ear/brain would enjoy working with them daily.
Old 1 week ago
  #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
I think that these observations are perfectly valid and I concur with what mpr is saying, even though I haven't heard the Kii. I found the Amphion two18s to be too cold/clinical at first compared to the Duntech Sovereigns. The Duntechs are very big picture and sometimes it's better not to be overlaoded with detail as long as the speakers translate well, which the Duntechs do. So I get the clinical/emotional statement as I find even ATC SMC25s are more forgiving compared to the Amphion, sometimes leading to more musical enjoyment. If the Kii are even more clinical than the two18s then I'm not sure my ear/brain would enjoy working with them daily.
I always equate the terms 'cold' and 'clinical' with 'transparent' (ie accurate to the limits of human hearing) and 'emotional' with 'coloured' (ie distorted in some way that pleases the listener).

Am I wrong?
Old 1 week ago
  #1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrremlin View Post
I always equate the terms 'cold' and 'clinical' with 'transparent' (ie accurate to the limits of human hearing) and 'emotional' with 'coloured' (ie distorted in some way that pleases the listener).

Am I wrong?
I think maybe there is no absolute wrong, given that all these terms are, ultimately, arbitrary.

I think my Yamaha NS1000/Yamaha B-2 combination would be called cold and clinical by many, and I also think that is mainly to do with the relative lack of speaker sound (self-noise). Due to the fast settling times of the various drivers (12" paper woofer in a sealed box, 3" and 1" beryllium domes), more of what is heard is the signal itself and less is the speaker humming along.

I think we are used to the various sounds of speakers humming and that is sometimes interpreted as warmth.
As to the emotional factor, I think the less the replay system (speaker/room/amplifier) draws attention to itself, the stronger the potential emotional connection to the music and the performance itself. Accurate speaker amplitude response and lack of amplifier clipping distortion are also important factors in this.
Old 1 week ago
  #1187
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Anyhow, all good. I respect everyones opinion and approach to analyzing their impressions. Sometimes descriptive forum language just gets a bit too clinical for me. haha, jk. Its great to dig into the intricacies of all of these wonderful speakers and I hope I didn't offend.

I just mult'd the analog output and digital output of my PT192 and hooked them both up to the Kiis. Its really interesting to hear the difference between the analog output of the 192 against the mult'd digital SPDIF signal strait into the speakers.

First, the controller is really smooth when switching monitoring between the analog on the speaker and to SPDIF inputs on the controller. I calibrated the 192 output to match the digital volume level sent to the Kiis. I know the 192s are not the best, but for monitoring I thought they were sufficient. Switching back and forth between them is remarkable. The speakers sound a lot different digitally connected. I had been using them via mac light pipe for music streaming and OS playback, but didn't have the 192 digitally mult'd to them. There is a lot more clarity in the 2-5kHz range on the digital connection. It is a little smoother and detailed which allowed me to dial in more presence than I was able to before.
Nice surprise. Also, the low end seemed more symmetric between left and right speaker. My analog outputs are calibrated to a 1/10 of a dB so it isn't like the channels were tilted, but going strait digital seems to carry a more balanced weight.
Old 1 week ago
  #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
As you probably alread know how is it like with all this...there is no ultimate mixing tool. Even NS10s are not...it is simply what you know and what works for you in tandem with your room. I have received numerous mixes done on Amphions that had bad balance and received many mixes done on KRKs RP5s that were spot on. And vice versa of course.

We bought 2 pairs of One15s and 1 pair of One18s (based on hype). Neither of these replaced our previous monitors (Genelecs + NS10s). Both One15s were already sold, the pair I am selling now used to reside in my living room last half year.

What Amphions have in common with NS10 (and why people in lesser rooms get decent results with them) is because they work well in untreated environments due to their constrained LF output. Speakers with linear and extended LF output usually don't perform well in untreated and smaller spaces due to the strong SBIR reflections which cause serious boosts in LF region (of course combined with negative interference causing huge dips in certain frequencies - depending on the modal frequencies of the room itself). These LF boosts might give an impression of ballsy sound, but they overshadow the mids and people start complaining that the speakers are scooped and without clear mids, while in reality it is their room which is not capable of dealing with so much LF and it bounces like crazy causing strong boost (and dips) in its summed response. These boosts then overpower the midrange.

Amphions (like NS10) don't throw out very linear LF, but have quite an early roll-off, which in "casual rooms" gets boosted and might sound fairly right in the end. Same goes with NS10s which due to the boundary reflections sound better in lesser rooms than in the full space far away from all the walls. That means both actually benefit from these reflections and take advantage of this. So they are very "casual room" friendly speaker. Problem is that these reflections are not perfectly linear so for accuracy it is better to have controlled LF behaviour from the start and a speaker that can output it linearly. But this is actually the cause why the majority of the people find out they mix better with smaller speakers with limited LF response...because it doesn't mess so much with their room and their midrange remains clearer. It could be said it is better not having some information, than being deceived with wrong information due to the messy overpowering LF.

Kiis output serious and linear LF. And their advantage is that they deal with boundary reflections with cardioud bass, which helps alot with positioning them even in the lesser rooms. But in controlled rooms where effect of the room is much less significant, they will of course have a chance to perform even better. While Amphions start to become anemic there and not with a really flat LF on their own (but pretty rolled off). Of course, you can supplement them with their sub, which is all great, but then it becomes quite expensive and still not reaching the accuracy of the Kiis for example or the sheer power and transparency of ATCs.

And same goes for SCM150s. They output huge tight low end. In a lesser room it simply doesn't work or it might turn nice to listen to for enjoyment, but not work for actual work to get done. But in a great room they will shine with all their power end extension.

Monitoring is not about speakers. It is about integration of speakers with a particular room. So the majority of the people's opinions about speakers mean absolutely nothing - it actually tells you more about their space than the speakers themselves. You have to try them in your own room to see how they will interact. If your room is lesser there is a strong probability that Amphions might turn better than some really powerful linear speakers. Kiis will be great, because they are able to battle this issue to a significant extent with their innovative design. ATCs are more "old school" but serious monitors and they require a seriously good room the bigger they are. But when this condition is met, they might be the best speakers of the bunch.
Got you. I was just surprised since many praise Amphions for their translation, focus and other things mentioned, but your experience is that they always agree with you even when you are wrong, and that’s pretty much polar opposite of those claims.

Even if constrained in LF, I would expect criticism to be about missing the low end or detail for more precise decisions and final touches, but not about letting you to “be wrong” if you know what I mean. (Even though, “wrong” can mean many things, so perhaps I’m understanding your “wrong” claim wrongly.) What you’re saying is pretty much that they hide the mistakes while others are saying they’re pointing them out and that’s what was kind of odd to me.

My “ultimate mixing tool” comment should be in quotation marks to be “gearslutztically correct”, of course there is no ultimate mixing tool that fits everyone everywhere & every time, I was just generalizing based on the praise Amphions are getting.

Got Kii’s here now and they are AMAZING. This is my first cardioid experience and I can vouch for the sorcery in this design. These are woo-doo boxes indeed and make an obvious difference in the room response. Compared them to mm45’s and there is deeper bass coming from the Kii’s, but standing next to the wall there is more bass build up from Barefoots. So pretty much more bass with Kii's, but less boom in the room. Abracadabra.
Old 1 week ago
  #1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft View Post
First, the controller is really smooth...
I agree that the controller is very smooth, but I wish they made a “PRO” version with audio engineers in mind though. Toggling between presets is very impractical. For example you set up one preset for mono, next for phase flip, another for loud monitoring and one more for minimum latency. Now you just want to check mono and you have to toggle your way there through all the presets. I would much rather just have 6 dedicated preset buttons and I would prefer them to be tactile too (Not smooth touch buttons) These touch buttons are not very reliable, when I touch them little off (fast with fat fingers you know) it doesn’t work, so you hit it a few times just to find yourself toggling those darn presets again… So to be completely honest, this $1,800 controller is useless for actual pro WORK, but it beats reaching around the speaker for edits and troubleshooting so I guess I’m keeping it. (Only because I saved some cash on not getting the custom paint job)
Old 1 week ago
  #1190
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I hear you, I guess I never considered using the controller like that cause I didn't really think of it that way. I just wanted the digital/analog input switching, digitally calibrated gain to 84dB SPL in my room, and hi/lo latency switching. I love setting the controller to 0.0 and knowing I am monitoring 84dB (if I am mixing/mastering to a calibrated level). I do all the mono/phase switching you mention in software. I actually rarely sum mono or phase invert sides on my controller. I guess I am so used to doing that in software that it never crossed my mind. I agree if that was your intent with the controller it would be frustrating.
I have an analog monitor controller going into the analog inputs and digital inputs directly from the daw into the spdif on the controller.
Old 1 week ago
  #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mev dinc View Post
I wonder if Kiis vs conventional speaker comparison is a bit like the early tube vs LCD tv situation. I remember everybody getting very excited about the LCD technology until realising that the picture was perhaps too sharp and a little bit pixilated because the resolution wasn't high enough.
Tube TV looked smoother with colour bleed almost creating nice antialiasing effect.

Could it be why some people find the Kiis a little clinical, such a new sound that needs adjusting to?

I heard the Kiis at Keith's place, they do sound very different and I must say very impressive too, but I still prefer the sound of my ATC EL 150As with much better sound stage and more dynamic sound.
Of course, my ATCs need bigger room to sound at their best whereas the Kiis can sound great in smaller spaces.
If you are ever passing MeV I would value your opinion on the Dutch&Dutch 8C, they have similarities with my 50’s punchy and dynamic , perhaps a touch more presence/weight and yet they are also similar to the Kiis in many respects.
Keith
Old 6 days ago
  #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mev dinc View Post
I wonder if Kiis vs conventional speaker comparison is a bit like the early tube vs LCD tv situation. I remember everybody getting very excited about the LCD technology until realising that the picture was perhaps too sharp and a little bit pixilated because the resolution wasn't high enough.
Tube TV looked smoother with colour bleed almost creating nice antialiasing effect.

Could it be why some people find the Kiis a little clinical, such a new sound that needs adjusting to?
This seems to me like a very good analogy. I’m among the people who haven’t been really convinced by the Kiis. Something about their presentation sounds to me to be not 100 percent «right», in lack of a more precise word. It is as if it lacks some dynamics and punch, and it is as it’s too «round» for my ears. Like a beautiful girl with too much make up. These words have no true analogy in the objective field of measurements, of course. But after two long listening sessions on them, I have not been able to find them emotionally engaging. This was against my expectations. I was very much expecting to be blown away by them. I know I am not the only one to react in this way. On the other hand, I think the Grimm LS1 are amazing.

I am a strong believer in the approach of the Kiis, though. So I’m wondering whether there is something in their implementation that creates subtle artifacts that dont show up on simple measurements? Could it be that the brain picks up subtle cues that dont show up on the frequency and polar plots? It could be, for example, that the side cancellation, when done by the extra drivers, is not perfect, and creates subtle things in the sound field that the brain perceives. Or that something in the DSP filters creates artifacts that are very subtle but audible. I dont know. And of course, my subjective listening impression may be faulty. That is an hypothesis I have no problem entertaining.
Old 6 days ago
  #1193
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Totally agree. I have no need to toggle inputs regularly and find the controller a missed opportunity to make this a really pro solution. As you said, cycling through presets is a clunky workflow.

I've been hassling them about this for a while with 2 ideas.
A Pro firmware controller update which would allow you to program the soft buttons to a preset with a little blank overlay to scribble on.
Or maybe even easier for Kii, a Pro Firmware update with a Kii printed overlay which locked the soft buttons to ESC. MIX. L+R MONO. L MINUS R. LR SWAP. TOGGLE LATENCY. ENTER.
Inputs selected via the menu. I think its totally doable via firmware.

I also dream about a big brother Kii control with all sorts of nonsense like speaker switching, headphone amp and line level outs for recorder/analyser etc but that would mean more DAC's and a price tag to match. Via USB, those mixing in the box wouldn't even need an interface. Heck, 2 line inputs while we're at it for a quick overdub.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAZERS View Post
I agree that the controller is very smooth, but I wish they made a “PRO” version with audio engineers in mind though. Toggling between presets is very impractical. For example you set up one preset for mono, next for phase flip, another for loud monitoring and one more for minimum latency. Now you just want to check mono and you have to toggle your way there through all the presets. I would much rather just have 6 dedicated preset buttons and I would prefer them to be tactile too (Not smooth touch buttons) These touch buttons are not very reliable, when I touch them little off (fast with fat fingers you know) it doesn’t work, so you hit it a few times just to find yourself toggling those darn presets again… So to be completely honest, this $1,800 controller is useless for actual pro WORK, but it beats reaching around the speaker for edits and troubleshooting so I guess I’m keeping it. (Only because I saved some cash on not getting the custom paint job)
Old 6 days ago
  #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
If you are ever passing MeV I would value your opinion on the Dutch&Dutch 8C, they have similarities with my 50’s punchy and dynamic , perhaps a touch more presence/weight and yet they are also similar to the Kiis in many respects.
Keith
Thanks for the offer Keith, I'd love to hear the D&D 8Cs.

Best.
Mev
Old 6 days ago
  #1195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engininja View Post
Totally agree. I have no need to toggle inputs regularly and find the controller a missed opportunity to make this a really pro solution. As you said, cycling through presets is a clunky workflow.

I've been hassling them about this for a while with 2 ideas.
A Pro firmware controller update which would allow you to program the soft buttons to a preset with a little blank overlay to scribble on.
Or maybe even easier for Kii, a Pro Firmware update with a Kii printed overlay which locked the soft buttons to ESC. MIX. L+R MONO. L MINUS R. LR SWAP. TOGGLE LATENCY. ENTER.
Inputs selected via the menu. I think its totally doable via firmware.

I also dream about a big brother Kii control with all sorts of nonsense like speaker switching, headphone amp and line level outs for recorder/analyser etc but that would mean more DAC's and a price tag to match. Via USB, those mixing in the box wouldn't even need an interface. Heck, 2 line inputs while we're at it for a quick overdub.
Well that’s a good idea, you can always do some tricks with firmware, however it is still just a workaround. You would still have to deal with those touch buttons which are positioned around the knob that is on top half of the controller instead of the bottom. (you could still work with it sideways though.)

I did some photoshop hack job on the “basic” controller. Swapped the knob with display and added some real buttons. I also changed the “Preset” button to “Profile”, that way you could store more sets of presets. (Would work literally the same way as it is working right now, but you would be toggling between multiple user setups.) Also, it would be nice if there was a way to tilt up the controller like you can do with Grace m905.

This is of course just a little play with design they already have, but like you said, they could go crazy and build a real professional monitor controller. That would be awe$ome!

Kii Three-Have you heard them?-kii-control.jpg
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Kii Three-Have you heard them?-kii-control.jpg  
Old 5 days ago
  #1196
Here for the gear
 

Great stuff! Mine was just a quick low cost fix but yours has inspired another idea. The overlay could have raised buttons like volume control on an iPhone case. Larger tactile dome ones which need a firm press. I’m always accidentally switching inputs when I reach for volume. The firmware could include an orientation mode so you could flip it like you suggest and the display follows.
Cheap and easy but damn would it make a difference to usability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAZERS View Post
Well that’s a good idea, you can always do some tricks with firmware, however it is still just a workaround. You would still have to deal with those touch buttons which are positioned around the knob that is on top half of the controller instead of the bottom. (you could still work with it sideways though.)

I did some photoshop hack job on the “basic” controller. Swapped the knob with display and added some real buttons. I also changed the “Preset” button to “Profile”, that way you could store more sets of presets. (Would work literally the same way as it is working right now, but you would be toggling between multiple user setups.) Also, it would be nice if there was a way to tilt up the controller like you can do with Grace m905.

This is of course just a little play with design they already have, but like you said, they could go crazy and build a real professional monitor controller. That would be awe$ome!
Old 5 days ago
  #1197
Gear Nut
 
DRAZERS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engininja View Post
Great stuff! Mine was just a quick low cost fix but yours has inspired another idea. The overlay could have raised buttons like volume control on an iPhone case. Larger tactile dome ones which need a firm press. I’m always accidentally switching inputs when I reach for volume. The firmware could include an orientation mode so you could flip it like you suggest and the display follows.
Cheap and easy but damn would it make a difference to usability.
Daaamn… man, you just worked around your workaround!

Raised buttons overlay with updated firmware working sideways (possibly angled using some ipad stand) could work. Would be much better than what it is right now, that’s for sure. Great stuff.

And now what?! ...Going back to what we have LOL
Old 5 days ago
  #1198
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Love the idea of being able to bind the buttons to your own presets (I only ever use USB input so the rest are literally redundant), and flipping the unit sideways for easier access. Neat idea!

That would be simple for Kii to do, as you could literally assign a button to a specific present bank position (1-6 or whatever).

It's not that often you change the input source. But it's VERY often you need to change presets. I think Kii missed a trick here, usability wise. The input should be via the menu, and presets needed dedicated buttons. I assume it's due to the audiophile market.

A new dedicated 'pro' controller would sell well. Although I wouldn't be very happy about having to shell out for another one. Trade in would be acceptable though.
Old 5 days ago
  #1199
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar

Last edited by b0se; 4 days ago at 11:10 AM..
Old 5 days ago
  #1200
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAZERS View Post
Daaamn… man, you just worked around your workaround!
Team effort. But a really cheap, easy and, dare I say, elegant solution to what was designed for the home listener to become something useful to to Pro Audio.
They included so many useful features but buried them deep within menus.

Hit them up with the suggestion. The more people and all... I almost sign off every email to them with this idea/gripe.
I’m sure they monitor this thread. (Hi Kii!)
They have been extremely accomodating with me as has my local distributor. Without wanting to go into details, I’ve probably cost them more money than they made off me. I persevered as I love the sound and want to support innovators and had never been in a position to be an early adopter of new tech before. Still not really as I work in the music business after all.
They’re a pleasure to use. Sometimes overwhelmingly so but that’s why I still have the trusty ns10s.
For what the speakers do and the money they saved me on room treatment they are an absolute bargain.
Anyone in Melb, Australia who may be interested in a pair is welcome to hit me up.
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