The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Kii Three-Have you heard them?
Old 1st May 2017 | Show parent
  #841
Lives for gear
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwb1 View Post
Hi Lee - I hope to try the Focal SM9/Trio6be this week hopefully but also want to try the Genelec 8351 - the genelecs interest me with GLM/sub integration as I reckon Im not going to be happy with Desktop speakers without a subwoofer

I hear that there is going to be a new range of Active Genelecs being launched this week...




Keith Im not entirely sure what you are getting at here - I think you are bordering on patronising

If you think it to be normal to buy Kii three’s at 9k then have to treat your living space into anechoic chamber to get realistic weight and depth from them - then good luck with that
Didn't mean to patronise, but the Genelecs with their GLM software once you have measured will also produce the 'correct' amount of bass, because they too are active monitors, now you will be able to add bass to your taste, much in the same way as you can play with the Kii's boundary and contour settings, try them and let us know how you get on.
Keith
Old 1st May 2017 | Show parent
  #842
Lives for gear
 
carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasher View Post
" shows a painful lack of proper understanding of basic psychoacoustics and human hearing parameters) -
Dear Rasher I do not know if you have had ever mixed music. I very frankly have not too much idea about mixing and postproduction effect for games.
For music is typical mixing loudness 79db-82db. Otherwise you mix horrible mixies after quite not so long time of mixing.

BTW
notoriously known chart


just question for other fellow gearlustz:
1.how many of you wants to make/record/mix/ music on these monitors
2.how many of you wants it for mastering
3.how many wants it for games postproduction
4.how many for movie postproduction
5. how many of you for listening music at home?

Last edited by carloff; 1st May 2017 at 09:56 PM..
Old 1st May 2017 | Show parent
  #843
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff View Post
...notoriously known chart...
Which has nothing to do with LF exposure. Seriously, pick up a book...

As for your (now removed) slight at my choice of anonymity: There are reasons and benefits to remaining anonymous. When/if Gearslutz requires dealers to be clearly marked as such and/or use of real names is mandated, I'll happily comply (and to be clear, we are not dealers/distributors for any gear we use in implementations, but we do implement custom hardware for certain surround/VR capabilities that is ours and not for retail sales, but if we were, it would be/will be clearly stated in big bold text in every post - that's just common decency and ethics.)

As to your use case question, our clients use our implementations in VR/Movie surround production/Game surround production.
Old 1st May 2017 | Show parent
  #844
Lives for gear
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasher View Post
Which has nothing to do with LF exposure. Seriously, pick up a book...

As for your (now removed) slight at my choice of anonymity: There are reasons and benefits to remaining anonymous. When/if Gearslutz requires dealers to be clearly marked as such and/or use of real names is mandated, I'll happily comply (and to be clear, we are not dealers/distributors for any gear we use in implementations, but we do implement custom hardware for certain surround/VR capabilities that is ours and not for retail sales, but if we were, it would be/will be clearly stated in big bold text in every post - that's just common decency and ethics.)

As to your use case question, our clients use our implementations in VR/Movie surround production/Game surround production.
I respect your right to anonymity but unless I have misunderstood practically all of your posting since you joined the forum has been ( negatively ) in this thread, it does rather smack of an agenda.
Keith
Old 1st May 2017 | Show parent
  #845
Lives for gear
 
carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasher View Post
Which has nothing to do with LF exposure. Seriously, pick up a book...

As for your (now removed) slight at my choice of anonymity: There are reasons and benefits to remaining anonymous. When/if Gearslutz requires dealers to be clearly marked as such and/or use of real names is mandated, I'll happily comply (and to be clear, we are not dealers/distributors for any gear we use in implementations, but we do implement custom hardware for certain surround/VR capabilities that is ours and not for retail sales, but if we were, it would be/will be clearly stated in big bold text in every post - that's just common decency and ethics.)

As to your use case question, our clients use our implementations in VR/Movie surround production/Game surround production.
Whenever you are mate working for Subdream Studios, Inc or another VR company in San Francisco area, I really believe Kiis are not really for you. You would need something (by my opinion from weak focus of mixing engineer who mixed just two movies and knows not too much about VR) much bigger where you can hear the weight.
Ok chapter closed.
I only cannot understand why to spend so many time and energy in the thread about monitors which do not fit your specific needs.Smells with all the anonymity ( and you of course as a clever guy can understand why) quite fishy, innit?
Majority of people here / I believe/ mixing something closer to music . So yes. Ok.
From this point I would love to hear something relevant from somebody who mix/record/master something more common for example MUSIC.
And that more than 30 posts in this very thread from designer of custom HW for VR/surround ....
please do not continue.For me personally and I believe for many others it is boring. The same as to argue with some internet person about noise level vs exposure time.Boring.Not interested.

Thank you.

Last edited by carloff; 2nd May 2017 at 12:13 AM..
Old 2nd May 2017
  #846
Lives for gear
RANT ALERT !!! --- OFF-TOPIC ALERT!!!

Just a reactionist comment after these lengthy discussions of demands to a modern setup for reproduction of sound. Classical music and films can be described by their huge dynamic range - and thus their demands to the audio setup. Lots of modern music - in combination with the widespread habit of increasing loudness - makes Carloff's chart above in message #842 relevant for those who worry about health-related guidelines for sound exposure - as well as listening fatigue.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that higher dynamic range demands more from your audio setup?

While mixing and mastering low DR productions demand less audio setup wise?

RANT OVER

Old 2nd May 2017 | Show parent
  #847
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff View Post
...Boring.Not interested.
Yes, facts can be boring to some.

In any case Vlad, I don't know how things work over there in Transylvania, but you aren't the sheriff here that dictates who and what can be posted. We all have the same rights to post our experiences and opinions. Don't like them? Ignore them. Don't like me? Ignore me - the forum has a feature that will let you do just that. I suggest you take advantage of it.
Old 2nd May 2017 | Show parent
  #848
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
Classical music and films can be described by their huge dynamic range - and thus their demands to the audio setup.
...
Wouldn't it be fair to say that higher dynamic range demands more from your audio setup?
Yes, and that's part of the reason the film/vr/gaming sound industries have the requirements/standards specifying required capabilities.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #849
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasher View Post
Yes, and that's part of the reason the film/vr/gaming sound industries have the requirements/standards specifying required capabilities.
Standards and specs are boring. It takes emotion out of the equation.

Remember, where's the musicality and artistry in specifications and standards?

;-)

On a more serious note. If the Kiis are as good as people say - and my first listening impressions were wrong - I may jump on them after all. If so, I will buy higher clarity, details and resolution instead of sound stage and pressure.

However, I cannot see why some people argue as if small boxes can do the same job in demanding situations as, for example, the relatively new JBL M2 with Crown I-Tech 4x3500 HD multiple kilowatt amps, connected to a couple of JBL 18 subs.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #850
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
... If the Kiis are as good as people say..
They are. Very, very good within applicable use cases. Despite my "agenda" , I've said so since first post here.

Quote:
However, I cannot see why some people argue as if small boxes can do the same job in demanding situations as, for example, the relatively new JBL M2 with Crown I-Tech 4x3500 HD multiple kilowatt amps, connected to a couple of JBL 18 subs.
I doubt many would be cross-shopping those and Kii - completely different capabilities/use cases (though I know of one user of Meyer X-10 - an absolutely incredible, sadly recently discontinued monitor - that uses them in what I'd consider far-nearfield/near-midfield.

I suppose dealer-slinging is part of the hyperbole, psychology is part of it (experiencing "big" sound from a "small" package tends to magnify the impression), product-of-the-month effect, and of course we all think "If I bought it, it must be the best"

I think most smart readers will see through BS.
Old 3rd May 2017
  #851
Lives for gear
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
There is no BS, if you knew Bruno you would know he is the last person on earth to film flam, the Kii's work exactly as stated and their performance has been independently measured and corroborated .
Your posting record 'Rasher' speaks for itself, your agenda here is plain to see.
Keith
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #852
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Everyone has his personal listening. Not shareable and non-contestable.

Funny, this duel of ear against ear.
Old 3rd May 2017
  #853
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
WTF happened to this thread?

The only thing that matters is if our work gets better or not.
If Kii's result in better mixes and/or masters - then awesome.
If not - then not.

I have a set arriving in a few days.
Better work - they stay. If not - they go back.
Simple really.

Dealer postings don't help the cause. Low post count nay sayers don't help either.
But the tangents taken in this thread ...... crazy even for GS.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #854
Lives for gear
 
carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
WTF happened to this thread?

The only thing that matters is if our work gets better or not.
If Kii's result in better mixes and/or masters - then awesome.
If not - then not.

I have a set arriving in a few days.
Better work - they stay. If not - they go back.
Simple really.

Dealer postings don't help the cause. Low post count nay sayers don't help either.
But the tangents taken in this thread ...... crazy even for GS.
Brilliant post. I agree.It works or not, nothing more or less.

Last edited by carloff; 3rd May 2017 at 10:03 AM..
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #855
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
In this case, what is it the interest of a forum ?
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #856
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
WTF happened to this thread?

The only thing that matters is if our work gets better or not.
If Kii's result in better mixes and/or masters - then awesome.
If not - then not.

I have a set arriving in a few days.
Better work - they stay. If not - they go back.
Simple really.

Dealer postings don't help the cause. Low post count nay sayers don't help either.
But the tangents taken in this thread ...... crazy even for GS.
Needless (?) to say, the dealers in this thread (let me underline that I am happy they are around!) are hifi-oriented, i.e. they focus on end-consumer, not production side.

So this thread is not entirely about what works in studio, but also what works for recreational purposes. And I think that's where high dynamic range film and general low-frequency capacity become a greater issue.

My post about the tactile part of the perception and experience of sound is relevant, I think, because otherwise we could all use headphones. Headphones are cheaper and have better specs than speakers.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #857
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasher View Post

I suppose dealer-slinging is part of the hyperbole, psychology is part of it (experiencing "big" sound from a "small" package tends to magnify the impression), product-of-the-month effect, and of course we all think "If I bought it, it must be the best"

I think most smart readers will see through BS.
I know the feeling. I had this with my ATC's: was at the dealer, heard the Kii's, heard the ATC's. Felt the Kii's were ****. Bought the ATC's at same price.

Read a lot of positive stuff about Kii's, some folks telling me I was nuts and deaph and all that stuff. But hey, I purchased ATC so they must be the best right?

In the end, to be absolutely sure that what I bought was indeed the best, I decided to give Kii's another shot, this time in my own room. I still regret it because I can start saving money again: the Kii's are indeed the best you can get.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #858
Lives for gear
 
pentagon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
I still regret it because I can start saving money again: the Kii's are indeed the best you can get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
Agreed. Even the guys from ATC admitted that 'there is no best speaker system'. They said it perfectly: the best speakers are those that make YOU make the best mix decisions. Couldn't agree more.
Sept 2016 vs today. I'd agree with 2016 you.
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #859
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Sept 2016 vs today. I'd agree with 2016 you.
Those two at first sight contradictory things do not necessarily mean I am contradicting myself :-)

I just feel for me the Kii's are the best you can get
Old 3rd May 2017 | Show parent
  #860
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
WTF happened to this thread?

The only thing that matters is if our work gets better or not.
If Kii's result in better mixes and/or masters - then awesome.
If not - then not.

I have a set arriving in a few days.
Better work - they stay. If not - they go back.
Simple really.

Dealer postings don't help the cause. Low post count nay sayers don't help either.
But the tangents taken in this thread ...... crazy even for GS.
cant wait to hear your impressions. your one of the members in here I hoped would try them!

my wallet is scared though
Old 4th May 2017 | Show parent
  #861
Lives for gear
 
loji's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Heard them in my studio here in NY.

They are astounding for their size!

But they did not beat the floor standing speakers we have


But that may be expecting a Fiat to tow the same load as a Ford F150 ... they are two very different ways to get where you're going.
Old 4th May 2017 | Show parent
  #862
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loji View Post
Heard them in my studio here in NY.

They are astounding for their size!

But they did not beat the floor standing speakers we have


But that may be expecting a Fiat to tow the same load as a Ford F150 ... they are two very different ways to get where you're going.
Would you mind sharing the type of your floor standers please?
Old 5th May 2017
  #863
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
@ lawrence_o thanks for your efforts of evaluation vs the ATC's. Your's—and the handful of others who have heard/used them once setup properly—are the only valid opinions on this thread. Opinion lacking experience is just conjecture.

Kii's not loud enough for you? Look elsewhere. Simple really, pages of arguments not necessary.

Look forward to your findings @ edham (nice concise post/reminder btw) and thanks to @ mpr for his efforts with regards to mastering.

Great work @ carloff , thanks for sharing.

Having used these now for a month, and knowing how good they are, I've started to not care—whatsoever—about directed negativity. I have been defensive before (defending my own opinion/investment perhaps), but now I just find it amusing. They're a tool, plain and simple. They'll tick your boxes or they won't. For my needs and preferences they still, after a solid month of using them, have me smiling from ear to ear and wanting to work on them (and listen to them). YMMV.

Last edited by b0se; 5th May 2017 at 02:50 PM.. Reason: Typos
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #864
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
@ lawrence_o thanks for your efforts vs evaluation vs the ATC's. Your's—and the handful of others who have heard/used them once setup properly—are the only valid opinions on this thread. Opinion lacking experience is just conjecture.

Kii's not loud enough for you? Look elsewhere. Simple really, pages of arguments not necessary.

Look forward to your findings @ edham (nice concise post/reminder btw) and thanks to @ mpr for his efforts with regards to mastering.

Great work @ carloff , thanks for sharing.

Having used these now for a month, and knowing how good they are, I've started to not care—whatsoever—about directed negativity. I have been defensive before (defending my own opinion/investment perhaps), but now I just find it amusing. They're a tool, plain and simple. They'll tick your boxes or they won't. For my needs and preferences they still, after a solid month or using them, have me smiling from ear to ear and wanting to work on them (and listen to them). YMMV.

Hi there,

They are loud enough. It's just that I am half deaf
Old 5th May 2017
  #865
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm hoping that when I get a listen to these it'll be like when I got my mothership I stopped thinking about conversion and focussed on what matters.. The tune!

Wiggy
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #866
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
I'm hoping that when I get a listen to these it'll be like when I got my mothership I stopped thinking about conversion and focussed on what matters.. The tune!

Wiggy
What are you using at the moment? :¬)

@ lawrence_o
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #867
Lives for gear
 
loji's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We were comparing to the Legacy floor standers


Very different beasts
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #868
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
@ lawrence_o thanks for your efforts of evaluation vs the ATC's. Your's—and the handful of others who have heard/used them once setup properly—are the only valid opinions on this thread. Opinion lacking experience is just conjecture.

Kii's not loud enough for you? Look elsewhere. Simple really, pages of arguments not necessary.

Look forward to your findings @ edham (nice concise post/reminder btw) and thanks to @ mpr for his efforts with regards to mastering.

Great work @ carloff , thanks for sharing.

Having used these now for a month, and knowing how good they are, I've started to not care—whatsoever—about directed negativity. I have been defensive before (defending my own opinion/investment perhaps), but now I just find it amusing. They're a tool, plain and simple. They'll tick your boxes or they won't. For my needs and preferences they still, after a solid month of using them, have me smiling from ear to ear and wanting to work on them (and listen to them). YMMV.
Strange thread, indeed.

You need two things to qualify:

1) You've heard them
and
2) you liked them.

Is this a Kii fan thread?

I look forward to reading balanced comments on the promising Kii technology!
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #869
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
What are you using at the moment? :¬)

@ lawrence_o
ATC active 10-2 ... Great little speakers but with limited bass and 'wallop' also my Sony boom box.

I love the ATC sound but was mildly disappointed by the scm25 and am curious what going the next level entails in a size that won't energise my future room.

So keen to get an initial listen and then add them to the shortlist once it's complete. Not keen on dusting £8k on a system that doesn't work in it!

Wiggy
Old 5th May 2017 | Show parent
  #870
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loji View Post
We were comparing to the Legacy floor standers


Very different beasts
As in Bill Dudleston's work? Not surprised at outcome. Heard the Calibre?


Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
Strange thread, indeed.

You need two things to qualify:

1) You've heard them
and
2) you liked them.

Is this a Kii fan thread?

I look forward to reading balanced comments on the promising Kii !
Lol.

Usually happens in any fora where dealers are allowed to freely shill.

Poke around in some audio fora elsewhere, you'll find some familiar names being warned...

In any case, as I said before, shouldn't be putting much weight on internet opinions: too easy for BS. Ever thought that someone posing as an interested party asking questions, maybe a bit of "product x is just ok", followed by "OMG, I 've seen the light! Product x is Jesus on water with fries!" could well be a shill and/or getting financial compensation/consideration? Or someone posting product x is a steaming turd c/b shilling from a competitor?

No way to know on the net, other than to know that kind of behavior has been exposed before in this and other fields, and will be again. Human nature.

Trust your ears, in your working space or a familiar space, when evaluating products. Put near zero weight in internet opinions, positive or negative. Well, unless they're Bob Katz's
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 924 views: 148053
Avatar for JblKid95
JblKid95 1 week ago
replies: 1989 views: 259310
Avatar for MrG
MrG 4 days ago
replies: 51 views: 3045
Avatar for lukedamrosch
lukedamrosch 1st January 2019
replies: 4 views: 1181
Avatar for domus
domus 2nd August 2019
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump