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T-funk ELA M 260 vs KM84
Old 1st December 2015
  #1
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T-funk ELA M 260 vs KM84

The Telefunken ELA M 260 has piqued my interest. Has anyone tested these side by side say on acoustics and other instruments? Pros, cons? Any other tube SDC suggestions are more than welcome thank you!
Old 1st December 2015
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
The Telefunken ELA M 260 has piqued my interest. Has anyone tested these side by side say on acoustics and other instruments? Pros, cons? Any other tube SDC suggestions are more than welcome thank you!
I have both, they are some of the best SDCs around afaic. If I had to pick one though I would pick the Elam 260 it's warm and detailed.
Old 1st December 2015
  #3
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Animus's Avatar
 

Don't rule out the Telefunken m60's. I got a pair recently and they are fantastic.
Old 1st December 2015
  #4
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Squawk's Avatar
Really like the ELA M 260's. Have used them extensively on acoustic guitars, as well as orchestral instruments, room, piano, etc. They've always sound nice in any of those applications.
Old 1st December 2015
  #5
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TeleUSA M260 equipped with Chinese capsules? Any conformation on that?
Old 2nd December 2015
  #6
Gear Nut
 
A.alden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
TeleUSA M260 equipped with Chinese capsules? Any conformation on that?
Yes, I believe so. But who cares? The m60s are easily on par with any of the high-end German mics I've used. After spending a week with Gefell m300s and T-funk m60s I kept the m60s.

A concert hall where I'll be recording next weekend offered to let me use their in-house pair of Schoeps mk4s. I've used Schoeps on a number of occasions and I think they're exceptional mics, so in the past I would have jumped at the offer. But in this case I thanked them and declined. I'll be bringing my Telefunkens.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alden View Post
Yes, I believe so. But who cares?
I do. Sorry but the msrp is up there. Any piece of gear I purchase is not only a functional tool but also a long term investment for me. I'm concerned about resale value considering there are other companies that offer similar mikes with the same capsules. I'll check back in a few years and see where they are at. Thanks for all the suggestions mates!
Old 2nd December 2015
  #8
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Mr. President's Avatar
 

I hear ya. I was worried about the Chinese capsules too but after reading some info from TeleUSA on a thread here on GS somewhere about the capsules and also everyone's praise for this mic, I took a chance and picked one up used for a decent price. All I can say is I'm happy I did. I love this mic on acoustic guitar. Borrow one or buy one used for a good price and resell it if you don't like it. I'm thinking the odds are pretty good you'll like it though. It's a great mic. Look through the threads here on GS discussing the M260. One of them has some info about the capsules and the QC/selection process. It's a great mic and worth checking out. Good luck.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #9
Gear Nut
 
A.alden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
I do. Sorry but the msrp is up there. Any piece of gear I purchase is not only a functional tool but also a long term investment for me. I'm concerned about resale value considering there are other companies that offer similar mikes with the same capsules. I'll check back in a few years and see where they are at. Thanks for all the suggestions mates!
Just because Telefunken has their capsules manufactured in China doesn't mean they're generic. I haven't heard capsules this good on any other Chinese mic I've used. And the used prices for T-funk mics appear to be quite strong.

But more importantly, I'm not interested in mics for their resale value. I'm interested in mics for their sound. I make far more money off my music than I do buying and reselling mics.

And besides, with a mic this good, I doubt I'll ever want to sell it.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alden View Post
But more importantly, I'm not interested in mics for their resale value. I'm interested in mics for their sound. I make far more money off my music than I do buying and reselling mics.
Well good for you mate!

Old 2nd December 2015
  #11
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Well good for you mate!
If cheap chinese mics that sound as good as the ELA M 260 become readily available, then the resale value of a lot more high end mics (i.e. not just the ELA M 260 itself) will stand to take a hit.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #12
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Well good for you mate!
Well you did ask for feedback from people who have used them, he was just relaying you his experiences

It's true though, if you are looking for investment mics, most modern microphones still in production are not going to really appreciate in value over time.

If you are looking for mics to make great recordings with (and specifically tube SDC's), then the ELA M 260 is a great option. If you want "investment mics", then by all means, dig around for a good deal on a pair of KM84's.

Old 2nd December 2015
  #13
Gear Nut
 
A.alden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Well good for you mate!

I don't mean to suggest that I'm making huge amounts of money such that the cost of a microphone is insignificant.

I just treat mics like cars. I buy them as infrequently as possible and expect them to lose value, but they eventually pay for themselves because they are necessary to the work I do.

If I owned a studio with a large collection of mics and thus had a significant portion of my material assets tied up in them, I would probably approach this situation more along the lines you are.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
I do. Sorry but the msrp is up there. Any piece of gear I purchase is not only a functional tool but also a long term investment for me. I'm concerned about resale value considering there are other companies that offer similar mikes with the same capsules. I'll check back in a few years and see where they are at. Thanks for all the suggestions mates!
Almost any new mic will depreciate irrelevant of capsule origin. The Neumann M149 happens to be a very nice German made mic with the one of the most famous capsules in mic history but it's price used is almost half of it's price new. Resale value is a reasonable concern which is why buying used makes a lot of sense.

I will say if capsule origin is the ultimate qualifier for you rather than performance it would have been considerate to spend a minute finding that out before asking m260 owners to take the time to respond to this thread.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
If cheap chinese mics that sound as good as the ELA M 260 become readily available, then the resale value of a lot more high end mics (i.e. not just the ELA M 260 itself) will stand to take a hit.
I'm with you. There is a plethora of great sounding mikes manufactured in China.

For example, a short time ago I picked up a M-Audio Sputnik in mint condition (China made). Internally it has one of the better sounding China capsules. It has very good components (WILMA caps, good tube, etc) in the mike and the PSU. I dropped a TAB transformer in it and one capacitor. It sounds fantastic.

As-is I purchased this mic for $175 USD used. The guy I purchased the mike from paid over $700 USD brand new.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo View Post
I will say if capsule origin is the ultimate qualifier for you rather than performance it would have been considerate to spend a minute finding that out before asking m260 owners to take the time to respond to this thread.
Sorry about that.

I did do a number of searches prior to posting this thread and my particular comparison question (see the OP) did not come up. I didn't mean to come off as trolling. If I did come off like that I apologize.

I did come across a thread on this forum after I posted this thread where a number of GS members inquired to TeleUSA staff that had posted in this particular thread not to receive a response from them. That is why I asked for an update on the capsule origin.

Old 2nd December 2015
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Sorry about that.

I did do a number of searches prior to posting this thread and my particular comparison question (see the OP) did not come up. I didn't mean to come off as trolling. If I did come off like that I apologize.

I did come across a thread on this forum after I posted this thread where a number of GS members inquired to TeleUSA staff that had posted in this particular thread not to receive a response from them. That is why I asked for an update on the capsule origin.

No worries. I'm surprised, Telefunken is usually very responsive. They even chime in here from time to time. I believe their diamond series have the handmade USA capsules.

I too like a bespoke capsules and certainly Neumann still makes some of the best capsules around. With the said, if you can find m260 used, I doubt you'd be dissapointed with its performance, the only SDC I've found as smooth and detailed though maybe a touch more open is the KM54. The 54 might be my favorite SDC but they can be hard to find and the ac701k ins't cheap to replace.

The km84 is a solid workhorse and there's plenty around. if you can pick one up for 1k I doub't you have trouble selling it
Old 2nd December 2015
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo View Post
the only SDC I've found as smooth and detailed though maybe a touch more open is the KM54. The 54 might be my favorite SDC but they can be hard to find and the ac701k ins't cheap to replace.
I stumbled across these as an alternative in a quest to find a clean KM54...
Old 4th December 2015
  #19
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Plush's Avatar
Resale value matters nothing to a real recordist. I record with my mics for life.

The Tfunk mics are Chinese all the way with all the drawbacks and cheapness of CHI=COMM equipment.

Stay away from them.
Old 4th December 2015
  #20
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Resale value matters nothing to a real recordist. I record with my mics for life.

The Tfunk mics are Chinese all the way with all the drawbacks and cheapness of CHI=COMM equipment.

Stay away from them.

Chinese or not, the M60's and m260's sound fantastic.
Old 4th December 2015
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

CM28 vs ELA M 260

Hello Mr Mulcahy, here is a review in Tape Op that compares our CM28 to the ELA M 260 which we sell for 1/3 the price.

The bodies are built in the same factory but our CM28 use a very clever hybrid circuit comprising of a FET in the front end and a tube driving the output transformer. This gives it an incredible smooth and transparent sound.

The CM28 comes with card, super card and OMNI capsules

CM-28 small-diaphragm tube mic | Tape Op Magazine | Longform candid interviews with music producers and audio engineers covering mixing, mastering, recording and music production.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
aamicrophones.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
The Telefunken ELA M 260 has piqued my interest. Has anyone tested these side by side say on acoustics and other instruments? Pros, cons? Any other tube SDC suggestions are more than welcome thank you!
Old 5th December 2015
  #22
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That's absolute bvllshlt. Coming form someone who obviously never used an M260

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Resale value matters nothing to a real recordist. I record with my mics for life.

The Tfunk mics are Chinese all the way with all the drawbacks and cheapness of CHI=COMM equipment.

Stay away from them.
Old 5th December 2015
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microphonefolk View Post
Hello Mr Mulcahy, here is a review in Tape Op that compares our CM28 to the ELA M 260 which we sell for 1/3 the price.

The bodies are built in the same factory but our CM28 use a very clever hybrid circuit comprising of a FET in the front end and a tube driving the output transformer. This gives it an incredible smooth and transparent sound.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
aamicrophones.com

Dave thank you for your response. On your site there is this description below:

Quote:
Circuit

The fet front end is designed to preserve all the detail captured by the 19.5mm capsule. The signal is then delivered to a 6J1b tube circuit. This sub-miniature pentode is configured as a triode to drive the BV11 transformer, an approach that takes full advantage of the low-noise characteristic of the fet circuit as well as its very fast transient response.



The tube provides the fet with a very high impedance load so the fet's headroom is maximized. The tube circuit does not need to provide any gain, so its output impedance is very low. The lower output impedance and higher output swing of the tube circuit over the fet provides greater transparency. The tube output circuit in the CM28 can provide 6dB more headroom than the Class A transformer-coupled fet-only circuits used in the 70s German condensers.

So the sub-mini pentode wired as a triode is used in this design as a cathode follower (buffer configuration)?
Old 5th December 2015
  #24
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Plush's Avatar
Nonsense!

The t-funk people made up a model number called M260. They had little expertise with small diaphragm mics so went in to the marketplace to have a consultant design the mic.

It's a piece of CHI-COMM junque. "Telefunken" USA are not great mic designers and are only for fetishists who desire a (nonexistent) whiff of Teutonic greatness. Cheap capsule shid tube. Compare to a real tube mic like the Schoeps M221b.

Laughable--buy the real thing instead. Oliver Archut laughed out loud when we disassembled the t-funque mic.
Old 5th December 2015
  #25
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo View Post
That's absolute bvllshlt. Coming form someone who obviously never used an M260
Fie upon you. I don't comment about equipment I never used.
Old 5th December 2015
  #26
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Nonsense!

It's a piece of CHI-COMM junque. Compare to a real tube mic like the Schoeps M221b.

Your post sounds like a bunch of CHI-TOWN junque to me

Each to his own though. I love Schoeps mics also, but I've had excellent results with the M260's every time I use them. No complaints at all
Old 5th December 2015
  #27
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Haha your hate of TeleUSA is so transparent it's almost humorous

We were engaged with a constructive conversation and all you offer is your nonsensical drivel of someone who has no experience with TeleUSA mics but clearly has a deep bias against Telefunken. I could say the same whiff thing about Flea microphones that you fall over yourself heaping praise on.

Unlike you though I happen to own several Flea mics so mine is an informed opinion. I also don't indulge in uninformed hate spew not to mention the fact I like Flea mics and bought their 47 over the TeleUSA 47 even though the TeleUsa 47 sounded closer to the Neumann U47 I compared it to. Unfortunately the Flea 12 didn't do it for me. I much prefer the AKG or Tele versions ck12 mics.

I will put up my TeleUSA Elam 251AC against any mic vintage or new, I know plenty of pros who feel the same way as I do. And btw their diamond series mics are handmade in the USA



Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Nonsense!

The t-funk people made up a model number called M260. They had little expertise with small diaphragm mics so went in to the marketplace to have a consultant design the mic.

It's a piece of CHI-COMM junque. "Telefunken" USA are not great mic designers and are only for fetishists who desire a (nonexistent) whiff of Teutonic greatness. Cheap capsule shid tube. Compare to a real tube mic like the Schoeps M221b.

Laughable--buy the real thing instead. Oliver Archut laughed out loud when we disassembled the t-funque mic.
Old 5th December 2015
  #28
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo View Post
Haha your hate of TeleUSA is so transparent it's almost humorous

We were engaged with a constructive conversation and all you offer is your nonsensical drivel of someone who has no experience with TeleUSA mics but clearly has a deep bias against Telefunken. I could say the same whiff thing about Flea microphones that you fall over yourself heaping praise on.

Unlike you though I happen to own several Flea mics so mine is an informed opinion. I also don't indulge in uninformed hate spew not to mention the fact I like Flea mics and bought their 47 over the TeleUSA 47 even though the TeleUsa 47 sounded closer to the Neumann U47 I compared it to. Unfortunately the Flea 12 didn't do it for me. I much prefer the AKG or Tele versions ck12 mics.

I will put up my TeleUSA Elam 251AC against any mic vintage or new, I know plenty of pros who feel the same way as I do. And btw their diamond series mics are handmade in the USA
Hello Palermo,

Fie upon your assumptions! As I mentioned, I don't talk about things I have not used.

Now fill out your profile here on GS and then I can tell if you are somebody.
Old 5th December 2015
  #29
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Hello Palermo,

Fie upon your assumptions! As I mentioned, I don't talk about things I have not used.

Now fill out your profile here on GS and then I can tell if you are somebody.
Really?

So YOU can judge if a gs member is SOMEBODY?

Nice...


Old 6th December 2015
  #30
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Plush's Avatar
Yes--your accurate profile and referrals to releases tells me a lot.

Maybe you are someone. I simply can't know without a cv.
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