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Vintage German Eqs for mix bus Equalisers (HW)
Old 29th November 2015
  #1
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CJ1973's Avatar
 

Vintage German Eqs for mix bus

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
I understand that the usual go-to are GML etc., however would love to know who is using German vintage Eqs for mix bus. Aka Siemens/Neumann etc.
Thanks
Old 29th November 2015
  #2
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Quite often I Key with Neumann and Filkek Danner Equalisers for precise frequency and often Filtek/BFE 5's for surgical use when the Q needs to be wide or Narrow as they can seriously zone in as required, though I'm usually cutting, thus the precise EQ points if that helps

Regards
TLB
Old 29th November 2015
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte View Post
Quite often I Key with Neumann and Filkek Danner Equalisers for precise frequency and often Filtek/BFE 5's for surgical use when the Q needs to be wide or Narrow as they can seriously zone in as required, though I'm usually cutting, thus the precise EQ points if that helps

Regards
TLB
Hi
Thanks. Do you use the Neumann PEV or similar? As I understand it, there are a few versions of PEV as well.
Also, have you compared these Eqs with others like GML or similar newer styles even?
Old 29th November 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Hi
Thanks. Do you use the Neumann PEV or similar? As I understand it, there are a few versions of PEV as well.
Also, have you compared these Eqs with others like GML or similar newer styles even?
Yes I have and I must say, I do know one person whom can literally take 2 Danner modules and a 12 Volt PSU hook them up, tweak the gain, frequency and Q points, then test them on a scope then finally they are done! Again as these are broadcast and ZDF German network auctioned units etc they are Radio and Broadcast precision so you seriously know the quality is 100% the biggest problem I had was there was no published English for the Filtek/BFE series 5 (now there is) and it was a gamble though it paid off big time! Very surgical, straight wire, and nifty, they are though tiny to operate so Bass Player thumbs beware, now Danner EQ comps and summing units are so well known....the price needs to be worth it. Mine were around $400 USD and now you can expect to pay much more, less if you rack them, more if racked etc.

If you want Fat Orange Neve 51 Donuts....and that Huge warm creamy sound, these are not it, they are more German frequency law specific then any other unit save a Swiss Nagra etc. GML....straight wire no mucking around etc!

Hope that helps!
Old 29th November 2015
  #5
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matucha's Avatar
They are not 100% though. Esp. not Siemens (W295). I'd say siemens is not suitable on 2buss if you want clean 40hz out of it. There is plenty of music that doesn't need to go that low and benefits from that euphonic tube-like coloration w295 has. Though it probably won't work on major part of electronic stuff that needs clean sub.

Neumann W495 is cleanish elegant sound. I often like bass sounds going through one.


The question is if you mind having 3dB steps (siemens) or 2dB steps (neumann) on your 2buss EQ. In reality it's lot less scary and makes you comit to certain spectral shape. These EQs are not for some subtle last moment tweaks though.
Old 30th November 2015
  #6
I use Siemens W295 on the mixbus and I like it at least.
Best results when I drive them pretty hard as they do hiss a bit.
I usually just set +3dB at 15khz right away and mix from there.
Old 30th November 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocobolo81 View Post
I use Siemens W295 on the mixbus and I like it at least.
Best results when I drive them pretty hard as they do hiss a bit.
I usually just set +3dB at 15khz right away and mix from there.
Thanks!! I am curious to know the following:
1. If you have tried any other stereo Eqs, even other German units like PEV
2. You mentioned +3dB at 15Khz, so you mean you increment 3dB on the High Shelf?
3. How about the low shelf? do you increment or leave as is?
4. How about the middle range Bell Eq that could be +or-8dB that is incremented by 2dB. Do you leave this or dial this in better? I love the presence!!

Thanks again!!
Old 30th November 2015
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Thanks!! I am curious to know the following:
1. If you have tried any other stereo Eqs, even other German units like PEV
2. You mentioned +3dB at 15Khz, so you mean you increment 3dB on the High Shelf?
3. How about the low shelf? do you increment or leave as is?
4. How about the middle range Bell Eq that could be +or-8dB that is incremented by 2dB. Do you leave this or dial this in better? I love the presence!!

Thanks again!!
Hi. Its stepped controls with 3dB increments so its the minimum amount of boost. Seems like its a very gentle curve so it doesnt get crazy bright. Sometimes I even go +6dB of boost.
Low-shelf boost sometimes too for sure but usually I leave it flat and decide later if its needed.
The mid range I have never used on a mix. Tried it but no luck so far.
I have the W295 and not the W295b so my mid-range is boost only.

Never tried any other German eq units but that Neumann mastering eq seems tasty. These things go for surprisingly little money so its not that much of a risk to be honest. Im on the fence now because my country's currency is crap compared to the euro and dollar :(
Old 30th November 2015
  #9
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I just got a pair of:

Neumann PEV
Telefunken W395a
Siemens W295b

They can all be used on the mix buss but it really depends on the material you're working on at the moment. I think the Siemens are the less used for this purpose, you got a 3dB steps on them and it's quite too much sometimes. Same thing is applied to the Telefunken. If you think they are right for the material you're mixing they can be not too heavy. I mean, even if they have steps of 3dB these are not intended to be like a 3dB on, let's say, a Massive Passive. They're not too "invasive" like a modern eq.
Neumann PEV have the best mids you can find around the world. It does have a 2dB steps so more control but the LF are fixed to 100Hz (in my version, there are also some with 60Hz sometimes).
I think they are nice shaping tools but you gotta use them in chain or combined with another modern eq that can help you find all frequencies you cannot access to with the Germans
Old 30th November 2015
  #10
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matucha's Avatar
Hmmm... the only time I encountered hiss was at the extreme of W295a (it has adjustable tilt curve instead of mid band). There was 12dB of boost a 2nd brightest tilt curve. Very very bright and the only hiss I hear is the one boosted from the mic (MKH60 - dead quiet mic).

Midband cut somewhere around 1khz can work for smiley curve. But why would someone want that on mixbuss? I get the highshelf on acoustic music when the tracking is all good, just a bit dark, so instead of doing a lot of boosting you just do it at one place and finetune the rest. But mids? It's always about sorting them out individually for me.
Old 1st December 2015
  #11
German family here

Hi,

I pretty often use the Neumann W495stb or a pair of PEa on the mix bus.
Vintage City mods them to have 1dB steps (instead of the standard 2dB), and I wish mine would be modded. Thick and creamy low-mids, large bass, textured highs. 70-ish sound.

Otherwise, I never use the W295 on the bus, although they could work for an airier, more lazy sound. Large bass, but lacking focus in my book.

I mainly use Filteks (MK3) for material that needs punch, I wouldn't use them on the 2-bus unless the whole mix really need that 80s smack.

Telefunken W695 would be an option for that lovely trashy sound but quite radical.

Neumann W491 would work great for large basses but punchier mids/highs than the 495stb.

WSWs are super 60s colored, very large basses, velvety highs... in the same vein as the PEVs, I guess. Would work great to vibe-up a bland mix.
Old 1st December 2015
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noize_organizer View Post
I pretty often use the Neumann W495stb or a pair of PEa on the mix bus.
Vintage City mods them to have 1dB steps (instead of the standard 2dB), and I wish mine would be modded. Thick and creamy low-mids, large bass, textured highs. 70-ish sound.

Otherwise, I never use the W295 on the bus, although they could work for an airier, more lazy sound. Large bass, but lacking focus in my book.
Yep, that's about right. W295 kind of reminds me of Gyraf G14 (it's not the same of course), a bit fragile sound with softened transients that works great on some material, but it's not really universal.

So the WSWs are not similar to w295? hmmm
Old 1st December 2015
  #13
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CJ1973's Avatar
 

Anyone know how much the w295 and w295b differ in the mid-range department?
Old 2nd December 2015
  #14
Gear Head
 

W86a+V72

I recommend Eckmiller W86a passive Eqs plus V72 as gain make up!
A very nice sound for the mix bus.... I use it flat, rarely +3 on bass, but most of the time this is too much.
Old 2nd December 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiocity View Post
I recommend Eckmiller W86a passive Eqs plus V72 as gain make up!
A very nice sound for the mix bus.... I use it flat, rarely +3 on bass, but most of the time this is too much.
Very interesting about the V72 use. I assume you use a fairly close matching pair? What is the sound like?
The reason I ask is because I am considering using my racked pair of w295b with 24v and my racked pair of closely matched V72s.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
Old 3rd July 2016
  #16
WSW : yummy!

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on my end: I got a pair of custom-racked WSW EQs that are simply gorgeous!
Smooth textured highs, fat mids and large bass.
Perfect on a mix bus that needs vibe.
I also got a rack of WSW preamps and a pair of limiters and it seems that anything WSW has that very pleasant thick velvet texture.
Old 4th July 2016
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noize_organizer View Post
Hey guys,

Just a quick update on my end: I got a pair of custom-racked WSW EQs that are simply gorgeous!
Smooth textured highs, fat mids and large bass.
Perfect on a mix bus that needs vibe.
I also got a rack of WSW preamps and a pair of limiters and it seems that anything WSW has that very pleasant thick velvet texture.
Nice! What model number is this you are using?
Thx
Old 4th July 2016
  #18
I'm using a beautifully racked pair of Telefunken w695's on the drum/percs buss and it sounds fantastic. Also the 60hz on bass is massive.Those hauffe trannys are glorious
Old 6th July 2016
  #19
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I use my Filtek Mk3c modules for a mix bus because they are transparent and were used for classical mastering among other things. The Siemens W295 is a great eq however, but a little more for individual channels (but you can't go wrong with that one as long as it is working properly). I have some Telefunken W695 modules which can also be great on individual channels with a great low end boost and some nice (but limited) mid boost options. The Neumann eq modules (pretty much all of them) are also very nice. The Filtek Mk5b is also nice for a mix bus with a sweet top end.

The Germans made some very nice broadcast eq modules. Well worth having.
Old 8th July 2016
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noize_organizer View Post
Hey guys,

Just a quick update on my end: I got a pair of custom-racked WSW EQs that are simply gorgeous!
Smooth textured highs, fat mids and large bass.
Perfect on a mix bus that needs vibe....
I'm also curious which model you are using.
Topic:
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