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33609 vs 2254 vs 2264 Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 20th November 2015
  #1
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DanSwanigan's Avatar
 

33609 vs 2254 vs 2264

I will acquire one of these in the very near future. I am asking for those that have owned and worked with these daily which seems better for use in aggressive rock vocals. Thanks to you all for your help.
Old 20th November 2015
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSwanigan View Post
I will acquire one of these in the very near future. I am asking for those that have owned and worked with these daily which seems better for use in aggressive rock vocals. Thanks to you all for your help.
They all might work. They'd just sound a bit different. And only you could decide which works best in your particular track for your particular vocalist (true story).

Seriously though, preferences are subjective. Your vision for a particular track might be very different from mine and we'd choose differently accordingly.
Old 21st November 2015
  #3
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSwanigan View Post
I will acquire one of these in the very near future. I am asking for those that have owned and worked with these daily which seems better for use in aggressive rock vocals. Thanks to you all for your help.
I own 33609JD and 2x 2254s, and for rock vocals I'd go 2254e all day and night long.

No doubt. Its the ballsiest compressor Ive ever owned by a long shot.
Old 21st November 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3 View Post
I own 33609JD and 2x 2254s, and for rock vocals I'd go 2254e all day and night long.

No doubt. Its the ballsiest compressor Ive ever owned by a long shot.
Thank you. A starting point is what I desire to find and your answer gives me that. What would GS be if we can't get an opinion to send us on our journey up the mountain.
Old 21st November 2015
  #5
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
I have little experience with the 2264, but own the other two. I'd agree that of the 33609 and the 2254, the latter has more color and can be more aggressive/vibey.

I guess the question is whether that's what you want?
Old 21st November 2015
  #6
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DanSwanigan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
I have little experience with the 2264, but own the other two. I'd agree that of the 33609 and the 2254, the latter has more color and can be more aggressive/vibey.

I guess the question is whether that's what you want?
If the vocalist is aggressive then I wouldn't want to soften it, I would want to keep the aggressiveness going. 2254 sounds like it may be what I want. I will also contact an engineer or two to ask at a good studio.
Old 21st November 2015
  #7
Deleted 7f9cade
Guest
Asking another questions to supplement the OP question.

For vocals it think 2254 and 2264.

When ever I hear 33609 I think master bus.

Is the 33609 more of a master bus compressor or is it good all around?
Old 21st November 2015
  #8
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The 2254 I've always found to contain much more omph then the 33609 / though once again it's your perceived sounding track that will make the compressor/limiter the one that gives the best end result. The 2264LB has been a touch disappointing in the beef up of a track scenario though again it holds many tricks that are of equal use. You need to try them all!

Good luck
Old 21st November 2015
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ienjoyaudio View Post
Asking another questions to supplement the OP question.

For vocals it think 2254 and 2264.

When ever I hear 33609 I think master bus.

Is the 33609 more of a master bus compressor or is it good all around?
My old metal knob 33609 was a cracking all rounder (and fabulous on rock vocals where that vibe was what I wanted). The newer 'J' I tried (may have been JD) didn'tsound the same so it depends on the rev. Both sound different from my 2254. All would work on a rock track depending on what I was shooting for (hence my answer above). Wish I'd never let the 33609 go though.
Old 21st November 2015
  #10
Deleted 7f9cade
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
My old metal knob 33609 was a cracking all rounder (and fabulous on rock vocals where that vibe was what I wanted). The newer 'J' I tried (may have been JD) didn'tsound the same so it depends on the rev. Both sound different from my 2254. All would work on a rock track depending on what I was shooting for (hence my answer above). Wish I'd never let the 33609 go though.
Is the 33609 as "heavy" as a 2254?
Old 21st November 2015
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 7f9cade View Post
Is the 33609 as "heavy" as a 2254?
My metal knob was pretty solid but I think my current 2254 (which is the AML 500 series 54f50) has way more weight than the JD (though I never had them side by side)
Old 22nd November 2015
  #12
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 7f9cade View Post
Is the 33609 as "heavy" as a 2254?
Not in my experience, no. The amp in the 2254 is a ba283 card which is identical to what is used in the 1073. This amp (in conjunction with the trannies) is always working even without compression. As a result, it is one of the noisiest solid state compressors I have ever used, but the tone of the box (even without compression) is pure balls - lots of lovely harmonics. Its a borderline guitar amp IMO

The 33609JD uses a different BA340 discrete class AB amplifier. The sound is much more gentleman like, and I prefer it on piano/rhodes and mixbus. The old metal knob 33609s are a different sounding beast altogether, and I recall them sounding closer to the original 2254e than the new 33609JD.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #13
Deleted 7f9cade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3 View Post
Not in my experience, no. The amp in the 2254 is a ba283 card which is identical to what is used in the 1073. This amp (in conjunction with the trannies) is always working even without compression. As a result, it is one of the noisiest solid state compressors I have ever used, but the tone of the box (even without compression) is pure balls - lots of lovely harmonics. Its a borderline guitar amp IMO

The 33609JD uses a different BA340 discrete class AB amplifier. The sound is much more gentleman like, and I prefer it on piano/rhodes and mixbus. The old metal knob 33609s are a different sounding beast altogether, and I recall them sounding closer to the original 2254e than the new 33609JD.
"Its a borderline guitar amp IMO "

Haha. Well put. : )
Old 26th November 2015
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
I guess the question is whether that's what you want?
Awe.....shucks, I bet you say this to all the clients etc - nope on a serious note Darksky Media knows his comps and sounds like the letters A-Z and numerical numbers 1- 100. A great Austraian Enginner/Producer whom has got his chops down to a fine art - his complaints are very few, his gear guidance, rock solid as Trevor, these guys know the sound, live the sound and F***ing agonise over correct choices etc.

There mission - get it right 1st time every time!
Though still they give their time to trivial (Some would say opines) posts so take it as read, when the pros tell you X feels better then Y it's time to explore both yourself etc. as always in the end, only you Can discover the syrup in the box and there seems to be a plenty on offer here! - Eveb if only 2 or 3 make the short list!

Regards
TLB
Old 16th December 2015
  #15
My first experience with a 2254 was on a punk rock vocal. I was amazed. It had a more mid-forward sound. It sounded a little clearer after Avedis re-capped it and mentioning this is to remind you that they can all sound a little different. Otherwise, it also tamed the lows in the vocal very well.

The 33609 I used was great on vocals but less colored and nicer. I would chose the 2254 for your application.

However if it were me, I would probably get the 33609 because I -would- also use a 33609 on the master bus. I -would not- use the 2254 on the master bus. It tucks the low end on the mix (this was my experience). Just some thoughts.
Old 16th December 2015
  #16
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jb_studio's Avatar
 

Hey Chris,

Respectfully, I'd like to counter that last comment about the 2254. I have no doubt you heard what you did and I respect your opinion, but I have 4 2254's and have done extensive comparisons between them and the 33609 (both the metal knob and the JD) and my finding is almost the exact opposite. The 2254's, more so than the 33609 and most other comps, seem to preserve a full low-end, if used gently.

I use the 2254's routinely on the master bus, especially on techno and electronic tracks, because they preserve the bass/kick while spreading and holding the track in a wonderful fashion -- JB
Old 17th December 2015
  #17
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Does anyone here have experience with using the AML 54F50 as a 2bus comp? I have one and love it, wondering if I should add another.
Old 17th December 2015
  #18
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

This one is tough. I love Neve compressors and they are all must haves for me. To my ears 2254's have a thicker rounder sound to them and seem to somehow react a little slower at the same release times. 2264's are punchier and more aggressive sounding and Original Metal knob 33609's are perhaps slightly clearer. To me it's 3 flavors of awesome.
Old 17th December 2015
  #19
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syra's Avatar
Yes 33609 metalknob lean and mean. 2254 thick and phat.
Old 17th December 2015
  #20
Gear Head
 

Just saw this and thought I would add my two cents.
I worked in a studio for 15 years, it was all Neve, we had 4 x 2254e, 2 x 33609,2 x LA4A and 4 x Gainbrain 2.
everything that has been said above is true. a 2254 is a great comp/lim.
all you could want for hard rock vocals, but, it is a flavour that may not work for everything. if I were to own only one comp it would be a 33609. the one I have is a early 80's one, sounds fantastic on anything. in my mind it would be a better investment. BTW, just did a job with a new J/D, it was very nice.
Old 17th December 2015
  #21
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pippi's Avatar
 

Just a thought-

2254As, 33609JD and 31102s here... I mention the mic pres as well because I have had SERIOUS problems with 33609JDs- TWO of them. Literally one of the most ridiculous experiences of my life in music in over 20 years... The replacement unit is sitting waiting for repair. Yeah the REPLACEMENT unit...

My vintage 2254s and 31102s? Freakin flawless minus some crackles and a fussy meter select knob (on a 2254)... I did have the 31102s serviced a few years ago.

So my experience is AMS is not the Neve we all know and love and I will NEVER buy another AMS product. I won't go into details as it just pisses me off beyond belief...

But Im not the only one who has had serious issues with new AMS gear. Buyer beware. Do your homework.

When it comes to Neve its not the same Neve we all know and love. Not the same company or quality. Period. First hand. And I liked the sound of my 33609JD (unlike some others posting on this thread but respectfully not beating the dead horse).... when it worked. With Neve buy vintage. It can be easily serviced, retains value, and sounds incredible. The 33609JD will lose 1000 to 1500 USD the minute you buy it... and it may not work... At least the 2 Ive had didn't... BOTH within MONTHS of receiving them... The only gear Ive ever had do that- twice in a row.

Vent over.

But again, all my vintage Neves have gone UP in value and work/sound beautifully once serviced by a qualified EE.
Old 17th December 2015
  #22
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TimFoster's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808KickDrum View Post
Does anyone here have experience with using the AML 54F50 as a 2bus comp? I have one and love it, wondering if I should add another.
I had a pair... On mix buss I found them best alongside another comp -- in my case with an obsidian. I'd hit them lightly (unlinked) after the Obsidian (also applied sparingly), and would walk away with just a bit more roundness and movement, perhaps something a bit more exciting going on in the high end as well. Usually made things sound just a bit more euphoric.

So cool -- defintiely. But possibly not the best choice to serve as main buss comp unless it really suits your style. The compression action and tone can become pretty obvious rather quickly... Sometimes to your benefit -- I like it in context on the African band clips that AML put up on youtube... But it's overall less flexible and subtle than a good number of other options.

Unlike an SSL, I would typically use the 400ms or 800ms release settings, as I felt it closed up a bit on Auto Release.
Old 17th December 2015
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFoster View Post
I had a pair... On mix buss I found them best alongside another comp -- in my case with an obsidian. I'd hit them lightly (unlinked) after the Obsidian (also applied sparingly), and would walk away with just a bit more roundness and movement, perhaps something a bit more exciting going on in the high end as well. Usually made things sound just a bit more euphoric.

So cool -- defintiely. But possibly not the best choice to serve as main buss comp unless it really suits your style. The compression action and tone can become pretty obvious rather quickly... Sometimes to your benefit -- I like it in context on the African band clips that AML put up on youtube... But it's overall less flexible and subtle than a good number of other options.

Unlike an SSL, I would typically use the 400ms or 800ms release settings, as I felt it closed up a bit on Auto Release.
Thanks, very helpful. I do have an SSL which I love, but I think it sometimes takes out some high end excitement. Probably will stick with the AML for tracking for now, but would love a pair sometime down the road.
Old 17th December 2015
  #24
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pippi View Post
I have had SERIOUS problems with 33609JDs- TWO of them. Literally one of the most ridiculous experiences of my life in music in over 20 years... The replacement unit is sitting waiting for repair. Yeah the REPLACEMENT unit...
Both of my AMS 33609JDs failed on me as well. And Neve doesn't respond to your service inquiries online, so don't even bother.

I ended up sending them to Kevin Leonad for repairs, but Im always doubting their performance now. When they work, they sound great, especially after that jumper mod that was posted a few years back.

To add insult to injury, one of my units had the wrong push button faceplate for the BYPASS switch, and after years of hounding them to send me a replacement button, I've finally resorted to the label maker and given up on them.
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Old 17th December 2015
  #25
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syra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pippi View Post
I have had SERIOUS problems with 33609JDs- TWO of them. Literally one of the most ridiculous experiences of my life in music in over 20 years... The replacement unit is sitting waiting for repair. Yeah the REPLACEMENT unit...

So my experience is AMS is not the Neve we all know and love and I will NEVER buy another AMS product. I won't go into details as it just pisses me off beyond belief...

But Im not the only one who has had serious issues with new AMS gear. Buyer beware. Do your homework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3 View Post
Both of my AMS 33609JDs failed on me as well. And Neve doesn't respond to your service inquiries online, so don't even bother.
Let me add to the pile of what a joke it is to be dealing with AMS customer service. I have no idea how that company stays afloat.
Old 18th December 2015
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post
Let me add to the pile of what a joke it is to be dealing with AMS customer service. I have no idea how that company stays afloat.
Screw it, after the last 2 posts- People should know...

My first unit took 6 years (broken within months of purchase and under warranty), 2 trips to England and even NEVE THEMSELVES couldn't fix it. It was the most astounding run around Ive ever experienced. They sent it back the first time from England claiming it wasn't broken... after literally 20 emails explaining it was and to NOT return it until they replicated the issue. The 2nd time they replicated the issue, guaranteed it was fixed and after about a month or two... same problem on channel 2. I sent a video and proved it was broken again and never actually fixed.

The first trip to England, it sat in their shipping dept. for MONTHS unopened but the box was damaged in transit and nobody checked. The unit was damaged even though I paid for 100% insurance and professional packing... They camped on it for so long I LOST the ability to make a claim with the shipper. Then sent it back WITHOUT repairing it and now physically BROKEN and never notified me it was damaged OR being returned. It just showed up at the studio one day...

Literally, they could not repair their own piece of gear. Literally. One more... Literally.

I got them to agree to a replacement unit- after 6 years... Which I thought was decent on their part as my warranty service could never actually fix the issue. Now the new unit is completely screwed on channel 2 AGAIN but its a completely different problem.

Its amazing how much weight the Neve name carries cause its the ONLY thing keeping them afloat... I will buy a nice bottle of scotch and celebrate the day that company closes it doors..
Old 18th December 2015
  #27
mpr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pippi View Post
They camped on it for so long I LOST the ability to make a claim with the shipper. Then sent it back WITHOUT repairing it and now physically BROKEN and never notified me it was damaged OR being returned. It just showed up at the studio one day...
Old 18th December 2015
  #28
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DanSwanigan's Avatar
 

Well, there is another manufacturer to scratch off my list as I research compressors
Old 20th December 2015
  #29
It pains me to hear about your issues, but I wanted to chime in that we've had an AMS Neve 33609J/D in our rack since 2005, and it's been one of our most reliable pieces of gear. Never a single hiccup.
Old 20th December 2015
  #30
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pippi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
It pains me to hear about your issues, but I wanted to chime in that we've had an AMS Neve 33609J/D in our rack since 2005, and it's been one of our most reliable pieces of gear. Never a single hiccup.
Its good to hear they were able to make one that works LOL...
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