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JBL LSR 708i vs Amphion One 18´s vs --what other should be mentioned?---
Old 29th June 2018
  #211
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So anyone to post a summary on this thread ???????

Old 11th August 2018
  #212
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I'm wondering if someone compared JBL 708P with Neumann KH310?
I believe @ Jantex had KH310. I really like deep and very tight bass of KH310, but KH310 is brutally honest. Sometimes it's just too much, especially for production.
I wish a speaker with KH310 bass and Amphion mids and highs )) Wondering, if 708P could be a ticket?
Old 11th August 2018
  #213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustboy View Post
I'm wondering if someone compared JBL 708P with Neumann KH310?
I believe @ Jantex had KH310. I really like deep and very tight bass of KH310, but KH310 is brutally honest. Sometimes it's just too much, especially for production.
I wish a speaker with KH310 bass and Amphion mids and highs )) Wondering, if 708P could be a ticket?
Speaking, perhaps unnecessarily, for Jantex I, have been in communication with him for years and though he (and I) once were very keen on the K+H 0300, he never showed as much enthusiasm for those as he has recently for the JBL 708P.
It should be said that althought the 310 goes lower and louder than the 0300, some like the 0300 more. I found that I wasn't getting good translation in the bass/lower mids with the K+H 0300 which has similar bass quality to the 310—very dry indeed.

I have the 705Ps and find the bass very nearly as dry, but somehow more revealing, and I like it. I have seen users rhapsodising about the bass quality of the 708P and in one case I know, replacing the ATC SCM 25A which retails at exactly double the price of the 708P.
Old 12th August 2018
  #214
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So anyone to post a summary on this thread ???????

which speakers are the best for the best translation ?
Old 12th August 2018
  #215
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Doc No's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
So anyone to post a summary on this thread ???????

which speakers are the best for the best translation ?
Neumann KH310
Old 12th August 2018
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc No View Post
Neumann KH310
Thanks for sharing your opinion, but from the different posts, it looks like Amphion are the clear winners !!!! ,???????
Old 12th August 2018
  #217
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had both, now have the P. of course it could be the room. The 708 for me translated way better than both one18 and two18 in my experience. Clearer, useful bass. The hi mids are not distracting, and as in your face as amphion, but translate better. Also the texture of the amphions made it seem way less muscular than jbl. Didn’t have a lot of use with the 310. If I was to get amphions I’d get the one18 and a sub, for loudness reason and price the two18 didn’t really do it for me there, so might as well have stuck with one18. The one18 also translated wider mixes that two18, I’m guessing because of the smaller stereo field. Amphions are good monitors, but I’d take even the avantone abbey over the amphions anyday. Those are great monitors too. The abbeys go about as loud as the two18s but to me there is so much more useful info with the abbey. Balancing music on them is amazing. Could never figure out The balance of the amphions, they sounded complicated. I wish they had 8 inch subs on those(abbey).
If this makes any sense, Id work on something for houRs and id be loving the amphions like crazy! Then a day later I’ll listen back and be confused on what I was thinking. The other monitors, not the case... amphions sort of remind me of early Dynaudios except with a crazy amazing stereo field... everyone’s ears are different. Monitors are like instruments, it really depends on what you’re trying to do..

Last edited by JblKid95; 13th August 2018 at 05:08 AM..
Old 13th August 2018
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JblKid95 View Post
had both, now have the P. of course it could be the room. The 708 for me translated way better than both one18 and two18 in my experience. Clearer, useful bass. The hi mids are not distracting, and as in your face as amphion, but translate better. Also the texture of the amphions made it seem way less muscular than jbl. Didn’t have a lot of use with the 310. If I was to get amphions I’d get the one18 and a sub, for loudness reason and price the two18 didn’t really do it for me there, so might as well have stuck with one18. The one18 also translated wider mixes that two18, I’m guessing because of the smaller stereo field. Amphions are good monitors, but I’d take even the avantone abbey over the amphions anyday. Those are great monitors too. The abbeys go about as loud as the two18s but to me there is so much more useful info with the abbey. Balancing music on them is amazing. Could never figure out The balance of the amphions, they sounded complicated. I wish they had 8 inch subs on those(abbey).
If this makes any sense, Id work on something for houRs and id be loving the amphions like crazy! Then a day later I’ll listen back and be confused on what I was thinking. The other monitors, not the case... amphions sort of remind me of early Dynaudios except with a crazy amazing stereo field... everyone’s ears are different. Monitors are like instruments, it really depends on what you’re trying to do..
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
So for you the JBL 708 would be the winner for mix translation. And then the Amphion.

Any other experience from other users ?

Sergio
Old 18th August 2018
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
So for you the JBL 708 would be the winner for mix translation. And then the Amphion ??

Any other experience from other users ?

Sergio
Come on guys I need to know between those speakers mentioned above, which one is the clear winner for best mixes that translate the best ??

Waiting for your feedback.
Sergio
Old 20th August 2018
  #220
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Feedback to my previous post and question ??????
Old 20th August 2018
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Feedback to my previous post and question ??????
There is no feedback, because there is no relevant answer to that question. You should try them in your room and decide by yourself what works for you. There is no ultimate-translation speaker in the world. It is just what suits your ears and what matches well with your room. That's why there are so many different speaker by different manufacturers and that's why we all like to use different speakers.
Old 28th August 2018
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
There is no feedback, because there is no relevant answer to that question. You should try them in your room and decide by yourself what works for you. There is no ultimate-translation speaker in the world. It is just what suits your ears and what matches well with your room. That's why there are so many different speaker by different manufacturers and that's why we all like to use different speakers.
Exactly.

Monitors are extremely subjective.

Besides the fact that we all hear differently (get your hearing tested and compare to ANYONE else's test---you'd be shocked)....

...all our rooms are different (rooms effect different monitors differently)...

...and we all have different tastes in monitor voicings---some like mid-forward monitors so that they don't mix too mid-forward, while others like mid-soft monitors for the exact same reason---to not mix too mid-forward.
(and I'm only mentioning mid-forward/mid-soft in relation to each different monitors---not to some actual measurable standard).

---we're all different.

Not to mention there is no standard you can compare a monitor to. Yeah you can measure freq response and distortions, impulses, ---but that only touches the surface of what a monitor needs to do.

For instance: Distortion specs get progressively worse as you go down in freq. So a 1% THD @ 2000hz @ 90 spl could be 20% distortion at the same SPL, but at say 40hz. Yet the freq response curve might only be -3db down @ 40hz--but that doesn't show distortion.

Manufactures rarely publish those kind of specs.....I've only seen JBL do it on their LSR series (though haven't looked at the 708 series). There's no point in even comparing that though---when none of the other manufactures list it.

Every album you've listened to has been mixed by someone(s) with different ears, tastes, subjective motives, different rooms, monitors, different intents.

It is art after all. What's the best paint brush, paint, canvas? It's just the tool. Find the tool that best fits YOU, that's all.
Old 27th October 2018
  #223
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
You should try them in your room and decide by yourself what works for you.
Did exactly that. 708P's are now in the house. Loving them. What a huge technological leap for JBL. Very sweet.
Old 30th October 2018
  #224
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Did exactly that. 708P's are now in the house. Loving them. What a huge technological leap for JBL. Very sweet.
Hey drBill, are you still in love with them!? How do they translate!? I am looking at 705p, cause I need something smaller. Never had a chance to hear them in person, but will definitely visit some local store.

Before you purchased 708p, what else did you look for!? I’ve heard that 708p kills many more expensive brands. True!?

Would love have your opinion.

Thanks
Old 30th October 2018
  #225
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic View Post
Hey drBill, are you still in love with them!? How do they translate!? I am looking at 705p, cause I need something smaller. Never had a chance to hear them in person, but will definitely visit some local store.

Before you purchased 708p, what else did you look for!? I’ve heard that 708p kills many more expensive brands. True!?

Would love have your opinion.

Thanks
Yes!!! Looooooving them every day.

I've had good translation experiences with JBL. My previous speakers were LSR 8/12P's. I've mixed feature films, IMAX films, grammy winning records and all around music on them. They translated super well for me in my rooms.

When my buddy @ JBL and Jeff Hedback both suggested the 7 series, I took their advice to heart, and pulled the trigger on the 708's. Smaller and more powerful than the LSR's, and a world class better IMO.

I'm still new to them, and don't have enough experience yet in translation, but I think they are going to be magnitudes better in that respect than the LSR's. one thing is for sure - they are easier to mix on. Did not "compare" them against any of the other usual suspects. My relationship with JBL and real world recommendations and a lot of research led me straight to the purchase.

Good luck with your search.
Old 30th October 2018
  #226
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What's the deal with the 'P's (passive), can you use any amp with them? Or, do you have to use an amp and external crossover? I thought I read that the 'P's don't have crossovers in them?
Old 30th October 2018
  #227
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Nevermind---I got the letter codes mixed up. I guess the 'P' = powered, lol.

Guess it wast the 'i' that was passive...
Old 30th October 2018
  #228
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

That being said, the P-powered versions seem to have onboard dsp? So, analog inputs go through an AD converter then?
Old 30th October 2018
  #229
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
That being said, the P-powered versions seem to have onboard dsp? So, analog inputs go through an AD converter then?
If you decide to go passive I have the amp for it in the classifieds with everything loaded
Old 31st October 2018
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
That being said, the P-powered versions seem to have onboard dsp? So, analog inputs go through an AD converter then?
Yes.
The two series are: "p" = powered and "i" = installation

The "i" models require a model of amp with an in-built processing unit or a separate processing unit (BSS) before going to the amp.

In either case, that processing is happening in the digital domain so there is an AD.
Old 31st October 2018
  #231
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Still hesitating between those JBL 708, and a pair of Amphion One 18.
My goal is to get the best translation.
Regards
Sergio
Old 31st October 2018
  #232
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Still hesitating between those JBL 708, and a pair of Amphion One 18.
My goal is to get the best translation.
Regards
Sergio
Bro your goal can’t be achieved, unless you can somehow tell the future. At these prices it’s only a matter of how your ears are built. Understand? you have to be a variable of that equation. It’s not like asking ‘which one has bass or treble?’ That we can help, but Your asking us to tell you something only you will know.
Old 31st October 2018
  #233
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JblKid95 View Post
Bro your goal can’t be achieved, unless you can somehow tell the future. At these prices it’s only a matter of how your ears are built. Understand? you have to be a variable of that equation. It’s not like asking ‘which one has bass or treble?’ That we can help, but Your asking us to tell you something only you will know.
Exactly.

The person recording/mixing/listening, making subjective decisions, is part of that 'translation' equation.

Not to mention the room and how it's set up in said room, where you sit, distances, etc.

Sergio, getting the 'best translation' is a process. You'll likely go through multiple pairs of monitors over the years before you really start to nail that 'translation' down. And for those mixers who have done that, you'll find that they have different monitors from each other---at any period in time. Then even though they think they gots good translation after 10 years of monitor juggling, they end up finding a different monitor that translates even better!

Monitors are one of the most subjective pieces of gear in the studio. There's no real way to get around that. If they weren't, we'd all have the same monitor.

The best way to lessen the multiple monitor purchase over the years scenario is to try to demo monitors in your room, doing mixes, and checking them on outside systems.
And while that's the 'best' way, it's not perfect---because 'you' are not perfect. Over time you might find that 'best' monitor you purchased after demoing many monitors, is not rocking your boat as much as you thought it did in the beginning. The monitor didn't change, 'you' did. You got better at your craft and started to notice things about that monitor that you didn't notice before, and it's starting to bother you.

Then the search begins again. For some, it's never ending
Old 24th November 2018
  #234
Here for the gear
 

JBL 708i Center speaker

Looking to install a 708i/705i 5.1 home theatre system for a good balance of critical transparent listening and passive movie enjoyment. Anyone have any recommendations for a complimentary (horizontal) Center speaker for this system?
Old 24th November 2018
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossneptune View Post
Looking to install a 708i/705i 5.1 home theatre system for a good balance of critical transparent listening and passive movie enjoyment. Anyone have any recommendations for a complimentary (horizontal) Center speaker for this system?
First, in case you didn't know, this is a forum for pro recording studio gear, which generally doesn't translate over that well for a home environment.

The 708's could likely translate over, but it's not he environment they were designed for, hence, there's no 'horizontal' version.

You can place a regular 708i on it's side, though it's still not gonna be as low profile as a true horizontal design. Yet that's gonna be you're only choice.
Old 24th November 2018
  #236
Gear Nut
 

Since the 7-series are also offered in JBL's "Synthesis" range -for the home- I'm confident they will work very well in such an environment. In fact an accurate loudspeaker is an accurate loudspeaker, regardless its label (pro/consumer). So, if you can live with their somewhat industrial appearance, what needs to be determined is the listening distance and required sound pressure levels. For home theater the levels are rated as calibrated to 85dB +20dB of dynamic range, meaning potential 105dB peaks at the listening position. Be aware that this calibration is for large(r) dub stages, and such levels in a small studio or home environment are not comfortable. Most find calibrating between 69dB and 75dB to be a good ballpark figure. In an anechoic environment, as distance doubles the SPL will drop by about 6dB, in a home environment this is only around 3dB due to the reflective nature and boundary reinforcment of such rooms, so be aware of SPL calculators that do not take this into account. The 705i is not that high of a loudspeaker and could be placed above or below many screens, alternatively the SAM3HA from the Synthesis line is a nice loudspeaker. Good luck.
Old 24th November 2018
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhorn88 View Post
Since the 7-series are also offered in JBL's "Synthesis" range -for the home- I'm confident they will work very well in such an environment. In fact an accurate loudspeaker is an accurate loudspeaker, regardless its label (pro/consumer). .
How do you determine what is an 'accurate loudspeaker'? By manufacture specs? User/reviewer subjective opinions? What is your control?

JBL 7-series in the 'Synthesis' range> I looked at JBL's Synthesis site and didn't find anything that was like the 7-series. Did see the 4306 which was a little similar, but it obviously had internal crossovers which the 7- series does not.
Is your claim that the 4306, which seems to be priced at less than 1/2 of the equivalent 7-series, would sound exactly the same?
Old 25th November 2018
  #238
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i would think that the 7 series are in another league. They are time and frequency dsp aligned. The amphions happen to be ¨analogly ¨aligned too... (not as much, tough, but also without latency and dsp, i felt them more natural) . I would like to know about the impulse response of this 4306... interesting
Old 25th November 2018
  #239
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
How do you determine what is an 'accurate loudspeaker'? By manufacture specs? User/reviewer subjective opinions? What is your control?

JBL 7-series in the 'Synthesis' range> I looked at JBL's Synthesis site and didn't find anything that was like the 7-series. Did see the 4306 which was a little similar, but it obviously had internal crossovers which the 7- series does not.
Is your claim that the 4306, which seems to be priced at less than 1/2 of the equivalent 7-series, would sound exactly the same?
A good question. Extensive thought and research have gone in to this matter, so while it usually isn't presented as such, the truth is surprisingly simple. What is needed first and foremost, is a set of comprehensive, anechoic measurements. An accurate loudspeaker has a flat (neutral) direct sound. A single on axis curve has in recent times been replaced by an average of several curves in both the horizontal and vertical field since this shows us more information. A single on axis curve can display some irregularities which would not be very audible under normal circumstances and change/disappear as one moves slightly of the central axis.

The direct sound is the first sound to arrive at our ears so it's of critical importance. On a side note, this why 'Room EQ' systems rarely work out in anything but the bass range, it changes the direct sound of the loudspeaker, not a good thing (for a well designed loudspeaker).

Since loudspeakers radiate sound in all directions, as a function of time, more sound will arrive at our ears. In many cases, the sound radiated by a loudspeaker in the 60-75° horizontal off axis will be the second sound source to arrive at our ears. Humans are much more sensitive to horizontal reflecions than they are to vertical reflections, it's human anatomy - our ears are in the horizontal plane. Loudspeakers that behave poorly in the off-axis will benefit from damping or eliminating those early reflections altogether - an accurate loudspeaker will behave itself in this regard.

Finally we need the power response of a loudspeaker, an average of the sound radiated in all directions. From here a directivity index can be calculated. The narrower the dispersion, in general, the further we can listen before the reflected sounds dominate over the direct sound. The power response should also be smooth and free of directivity issues.

There a couple of formats to present this information. Polar plots are one options, the 'spinorama' method as designed by Floyd Toole of Harman is another.

Final factors are bass exension, overall SPL capabilities, distortion and deviations from linearity as one plays louder.

Based on this information, if you can find it or estimate these things from the available data - very few manufacturers offer it- it's pretty much possible to predict how a loudspeaker will measure and behave itself in room, above the Schroeder frequency of the room - usually above a couple of 100hz.

Phase issues/time alligning .. if these aspects are lacking they will show up in the frequency response of the loudspeaker. In general phase shifts are acceptable as long as they sum properly - humans are insensitive to phase in the absolute sense, as much as some would like to believe otherwise.
Old 25th November 2018
  #240
Gear Nut
 

Measurements for the 4306 are not available for the public - I have asked my source at Harman some time ago. These and some others were designed in their Japan facility. A 3khz crossover for an 8" mid/bass driver seems too high in my opinion, a pity, as it is a beautiful looking speaker :-)
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