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Which Clock: Mutec iClock or Apogee Big Ben?
Old 17th January 2007
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Doktorfuture's Avatar
 

Which Clock: Mutec iClock or Apogee Big Ben?

I need a good master clock. With some new digital gear, I'm getting clicks and pops and weakening sound stage. I am looking at the Mutec iClock which I can get for 20% more than the Apogee Big Ben. I like it's abundance of I/O, and flexible clocking. I *suspect* it's a more accurate clock from 'inferring from specs' (DDS like Apogee, 172.8MHz internal clock).

What I can't find is JITTER MEASUREMENTS FOR THE APOGEE.

The iClock specks its jitter at: <6ps (p-p), <1ps (RMS), measure bandwidth: 20.0 Hz – 100.0 kHz. What is the Apogee's?

The iClock has 8 BNC WordClock outputs, 4 AES/EBU outpus, and a bunch of other i/o. It seems to be similar to the Apogee, but doesn't have the termination detection.

Anyone have anything good/bad to say about the iClock?

Cheers
Old 17th January 2007
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

BIG BEN!!! APOGEE IS THE SH!T.
Old 17th January 2007
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGILL View Post
BIG BEN!!! APOGEE IS THE SH!T.
I'd say the Big Ben also but I don't know anything about iclock. Maybe others have some info.
Old 17th January 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGILL View Post
BIG BEN!!! APOGEE IS THE SH!T.
and the company will be around in 5 years!!!!!!

Old 17th January 2007
  #5
Gear Addict
 

My understanding was Apogee could not release a jitter spec because Big Ben on internal had less jitter than their jitter measuring equipment.... I'd say Big Ben all the way.
Old 17th January 2007
  #6
Gear Nut
 

apogee ad16x/da16x rules. with the big ben clock included free.
Old 17th January 2007
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddS View Post
My understanding was Apogee could not release a jitter spec because Big Ben on internal had less jitter than their jitter measuring equipment.... I'd say Big Ben all the way.
Negative jitter, I guess that's pretty good



vvvv Good idea, wonder why they didn't.
Old 17th January 2007
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Doktorfuture's Avatar
 

Apogee Jitter Measurement

One would think they could find a way to multiply the jitter in such a way that it could be quantified by their jitter measurement equipment, then divide the result down to find out what it actually is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachhunt View Post
Negative jitter, I guess that's pretty good
Old 10th December 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddS View Post
My understanding was Apogee could not release a jitter spec because Big Ben on internal had less jitter than their jitter measuring equipment.... I'd say Big Ben all the way.
thats just a lie,

nothing its more accurate than atomic wordclocks, and atomic wordclocks can be measured.

pure simple lie.
Old 10th December 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktorfuture View Post
I need a good master clock. ...
Anyone have anything good/bad to say about the iClock?
they all make the sound different, you must hear them to find the right one for your taste.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/3721768-post34.html
Old 10th December 2008
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktorfuture View Post
I need a good master clock. With some new digital gear, I'm getting clicks and pops and weakening sound stage.
This seems alarming to me. Sound stage should not become "weak" without a master clock, unless your digital connections are utterly wrong. Perhaps your digital gear is, in general, "weak" in the stereo image department.

Clicks and Pops are ALSO not always a function of clocking. They are many other reasons why "clicks and pops" can occur in a digital system. However, when you have multiple AD/DA chassis, running on their own clocks, then these errors can occur randomly and spontaneously.

Picture waving your hands in opposite directions from each other, while screaming at the top of your lungs standing in front of a moving car about to collide with your human frame. If it hits you, I'm sure there will be some clicks and pops going on.

If the driver sees your hands waving in a uniform fashion, he might miss you, because of the timing between his eye and your hands. A Master clock will indeed solve sync problems, and hopefully give you the benefits you think your missing in your digital equipment, but from your posting, and the amount of information you've provided, I would suspect other problems.

What gear are you trying to synchronize? Any master clock will synchronize your converters properly. Hell, even ONE of your AD/DA chassis can slave the whole lot of your equipment with daisy chaining with proper termination.

The question remains "how does it sound" which many people do not buy a master clock in lieu of. It just so happens that all of these devices affect the sound in some way good or bad [which is completely and compellingly end user definable]
Old 11th December 2008
  #12
Here for the gear
 

antelope audio isochrone OCX was $1495.97 and they just dropped it to $995 at Sweetwater. I think only for 1 more week and then it goes back up. So at regular price it's more expensive than the Big Ben. I've heard a lot of good things about it too.
Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX | Sweetwater.com
Old 11th December 2008
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Here's a review I found that talks about the OCX. It's interesting.

http://antelopeaudio.com/en/TapeOpAntelopeReview.pdf
Old 11th December 2008
  #14
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airmate's Avatar
 

you always have to try the clock(s) out yourself. i depends on the actual combination of gear - and the results aver never predictable. there are many cases where an external clock (and be it the best one available) makes the sound actually worse.
Old 11th December 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
...the results aver never predictable. there are many cases where an external clock (and be it the best one available) makes the sound actually worse.
thats really hard to beleive,
must be a really dumb person making the connections and settings,
or a verry bad/too long low quality cables used, or both.

or that studio is not inside a faraday cage and is verry near an electric tower, or a high power TV/radio/cellphone station with high EMI RFI interference.
Faraday cage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

every external clock ive tested sounds better with a good full OFC cable, always sound the same.
from Alesis Ai-2 to Drawmer M-Clock.
Old 11th December 2008
  #16
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airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by space2012 View Post
thats really hard to beleive,

but that's how it is. every clock test that i or people i know have conducted lead to this conclusion. and we did many comparisons with all kinds of clocks, cables and converters - including lavry gold, kimber cables, big ben, antilope, mutec, brainstorm, amongst various others.

so i refuse to say dumb people or stupid settings or crappy gear have been involved in our comparisons.

generally an internal clock is always preferable for various technical reasons. in some cases an external clock can lead to a different sound, but then still it is arguable if the change is for better or worse.

don't get me wrong, i found various settings where an external clock actually led to a sound that i preferred over another setup.

buti am still convinced it is plain BS to say a certain clock would be thebest one without looking at the very setup it is going to be used with.
Old 11th December 2008
  #17
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PheelTheMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
but that's how it is. every clock test that i or people i know have conducted lead to this conclusion. and we did many comparisons with all kinds of clocks, cables and converters - including lavry gold, kimber cables, big ben, antilope, mutec, brainstorm, amongst various others.

so i refuse to say dumb people or stupid settings or crappy gear have been involved in our comparisons.

generally an internal clock is always preferable for various technical reasons. in some cases an external clock can lead to a different sound, but then still it is arguable if the change is for better or worse.

don't get me wrong, i found various settings where an external clock actually led to a sound that i preferred over another setup.

buti am still convinced it is plain BS to say a certain clock would be thebest one without looking at the very setup it is going to be used with.
I love when someone explains everything I want to say without me having to actually type it all out Right on!
Old 13th December 2008
  #18
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DONNX's Avatar
 

I had a big ben, and sold it. I miss it already and its only been 2 weeks. But I ordered a Antelope OCX to hear what the hype is all about.

I bought another Big Ben. A must have box for me.

The Antelope OCX with the 10m. maybe one day.
Old 5th January 2009
  #19
Isochrome clock

I compared via a shootout....the AA Isochrome to a Mytek clock using Aroura 16 AD DA and the Isochrome IMO sounded much better. I noticesdmuch more width and high freq clarity than the mytek. Much Wider...could hear reverb tails like they were meant to be..... I was hoping for the Mytek i will mention but rather shocked. Def the Antilope.
Old 5th January 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by space2012 View Post
thats just a lie,

nothing its more accurate than atomic wordclocks, and atomic wordclocks can be measured.

pure simple lie.
Or he simply got the read the info wrong.

**** it burn him anyway.
Old 5th January 2009
  #21
Gear Nut
 

That is the funniest reply i've read in a long time! thumbsup

I just bought the Antelope and would definitely agree with Shin!

Last edited by mwagener; 5th January 2009 at 04:46 PM.. Reason: language
Old 5th January 2009
  #22
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Not I, I returned that antelope OCX. Sweetwater.com had a special on them for $1000, thought to give it a whirl. It didn't do anything but displayed 44.1K in bright red digits. Got another Big Ben. Waste of time and money IMHO.
Old 5th January 2009
  #23
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DONNX's Avatar
 

The antelope seemed to be cheaply made and it looks like it was made in China like my cheap $10 digital alarm clock. Plastic knobs, very Chameleon labish.. .

Last edited by mwagener; 5th January 2009 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: quoted language
Old 5th January 2009
  #24
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flute player's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ology View Post
I compared via a shootout....the AA Isochrome to a Mytek clock using Aroura 16 AD DA and the Isochrome IMO sounded much better. I noticesdmuch more width and high freq clarity than the mytek. Much Wider...could hear reverb tails like they were meant to be..... I was hoping for the Mytek i will mention but rather shocked. Def the Antilope.

Same connection here Aurora plus Isochrome.
Great sound though I must say it's significant comparing to my old MOTU HD192. There you could here it clearly.
A clock sure helps but the better the ad/da the less you hear the difference.
And Mytek, Apogee and Lynx are all the same league.

greetz,

Paul
Old 5th January 2009
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
No let me tell you silver dollar boy since you love to talk genitalia. The antelope is cheap and wouldn't hurt you as bad an my rock hard apogee BIG BEN dfegad Looks like it was made in China like my cheap $10 digital alarm clock. Plastic knobs, very Chameleon labish..You got scammed Shin.
Do you just look at this stuff or actually use it? You missed the boat.
Old 5th January 2009
  #26
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin View Post
Do you just look at this stuff or actually use it? You missed the boat.
Did you read my previous post? I think I have said that I owned both and used both. Apogee Big Ben dominates sailor. The only thing I have not used is the $6000 10m. But after owning the OCX, I think I will pass the audition. Because if somebody makes a $1500 box that cheap, and gives me an initial gut feeling thats says "avoid-CHEAP", I stay away. I even gave the "toy" the benefit of the doubt and actually done a mix with it.. Its a decent clock no doubt, but no Big Ben and definitely not worth $1500. I say its comparable to the Black Lion Microclock. $425. Thats what the price should be IMO. And I got more respect for BLA than Antelope. At least BLA tells you that we didn't make it fancy and we gave you a wall wart to cut the cost for home project guys. Thats respectful in comparison.

The Big Ben proven it self over and over and has many fans like myself. The VSO feature rocks as well, and the OCX doesn't have that option. In fact, the OCX looks so cheap inside and out that I felt like somebody is trying to scam me with a chinese made toy clock. I sent it back to the dealer after my audition with it. And ordered another Big Ben for the house. Big Ben is quality. My hard earned money goes to quality gear. Apogee makes quality gear and communicates with their customers. They don't cut corners and make you pay $1500 for a $200 box made in China. I feel the BB is made with pro materials, pro minds, and with proven results. An industry standard clock. Just my 2 c's.
Old 5th January 2009
  #27
Play nice now! There is no point in arguing about master clocks. You like OCX, he likes the Big Ben, cool.

They're both great! Its just another end user specific choice. Lets keep it fair an balanced like Fox News gentleman!
Old 5th January 2009
  #28
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Play nice now! There is no point in arguing about master clocks. You like OCX, he likes the Big Ben, cool.

They're both great! Its just another end user specific choice. Lets keep it fair an balanced like Fox News gentleman!

Yea you should have read what Shin head wrote before the moderator deleted his filthy mess. I am nice guy but I think he took a big step over the line.

Old 7th March 2009
  #29
Gear Head
 

hi,
so can anyone tell what a big ben or an oxc really changes?
I just heard the i clock, and i did not notice a difference at all.
Do i need really high end word clock cables, or just another vodoo ****????
Is it worth it???
Oliver
Old 7th March 2009
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate;3724659
generally an internal clock is always preferable for various technical reasons. in [I
some[/I] cases an external clock can lead to a different sound, but then still it is arguable if the change is for better or worse.
You hit the nail. There is no better clock than a well designed internal clock.

Every PLL will bring jitter to worse numbers than a really good internal clock.

In bigger setups you often can´t avoid a master clock at least for convinience. But of course you can take the internal clock of a converter as master for the rest. I reglarly make the most important converter in my studio to the master and the rest of the digital gear to the slave.
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