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Burl Mothership or 2" Tape Machine? Digital Converters
Old 6 days ago
  #181
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deuc647's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nOiz View Post
I have recently had a chance to try out the BAD8 card on my Mothership. Long story short, I am sticking with my BAD4. Although the lower latency and having 8 ADs on a single card are nice things to have.
Could you elaborate on this more? Really interested in your thoughts.

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Old 6 days ago
  #182
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
This is a weird thread.

The OP has priorities backwards, which is an all too common problem.

None of this matters if you don't have your tracking and mixing chops together. I am confident that many of us who are on the more experienced side could easily best the mix that the OP posted whilst totally ITB using nothing but the "stock" Avid plugins that come with ProTools. I don't mean for that to sound arrogant, but it's just the truth. His mix wasn't bad, but had weaknesses in some pretty obvious areas of the fundamental basics (balance, EQ, compression)

Great gear is fun, but know this - It's about the ear, not the gear.

If more people would invest in THEMSELVES instead of GEAR they would find themselves a lot happier with their output, and we'd collectively be in a much better place.

O.P. here. I totally concede this is true haha. That mix was really poor, along with many of the micing decisions and tracking environment, and the mastering (by me) was crap too. I am grateful to listen back to that mix and be able to hear how much differently and more competently I could do things now even only a couple years later. I owe a lot of that to the criticisms of the engineers on this thread who listened to it, particularly Mike Caffrey who for the most part provided great, honest criticism.

That being said, I have since this thread was created had the chance to track some of my music all analog to 2" 24 track tape. And I am convinced that that is the way to go for me. For the sound I am going for, and the genre I am in and the records I admire, the tape does a billion things to the sound that reminds me of the albums I love, and gets me so much closer to where I want to be sonically. For me the verdict is clear, analog or nothing.

-MM
Old 6 days ago
  #183
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b0se's Avatar
Perhaps try the Handsome Zulu? Not used it myself but it has a lot of fans for HW tape emulation.

handsomeaudio
Old 5 days ago
  #184
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bambamboom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Moss View Post
O.P. here. I totally concede this is true haha. That mix was really poor, along with many of the micing decisions and tracking environment, and the mastering (by me) was crap too. I am grateful to listen back to that mix and be able to hear how much differently and more competently I could do things now even only a couple years later. I owe a lot of that to the criticisms of the engineers on this thread who listened to it, particularly Mike Caffrey who for the most part provided great, honest criticism.

That being said, I have since this thread was created had the chance to track some of my music all analog to 2" 24 track tape. And I am convinced that that is the way to go for me. For the sound I am going for, and the genre I am in and the records I admire, the tape does a billion things to the sound that reminds me of the albums I love, and gets me so much closer to where I want to be sonically. For me the verdict is clear, analog or nothing.

-MM
I'm glad to hear that you are happy. If that workflow works for you, then more power to you. With 90% of the projects I work on, an analog studio would be severely limiting and wouldn't even be considered. If you have developed enough of a niche in terms of clients/projects that you can make analog your differentiating selling point (and a few have...), that's great.

Having said this, you can achieve a VERY "analog" sound using entirely ITB digital. It's a just a different process to get there that takes some time and experience to figure out.
Old 5 days ago
  #185
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
I'm glad to hear that you are happy. If that workflow works for you, then more power to you. With 90% of the projects I work on, an analog studio would be severely limiting and wouldn't even be considered. If you have developed enough of a niche in terms of clients/projects that you can make analog your differentiating selling point (and a few have...), that's great.

Having said this, you can achieve a VERY "analog" sound using entirely ITB digital. It's a just a different process to get there that takes some time and experience to figure out.
I do actually agree with you 100%, though I feel it's a bit easier to do this with a nice hybrid setup than going 100% digital...but it is possible to get close. There will always be quirks the more analog you go...oddities that set things apart in a unique way...but talent and an experienced ear can do a lot with a little. I wouldn't want to be only ITB mixing if I could avoid it...even though I'm entirely ITB mastering with my own software I designed myself at this point.

Last edited by herecomesyourman; 2 days ago at 10:59 PM..
Old 2 days ago
  #186
Lives for gear
One of the best lessons I had in analog vs digital was my experience buying a digital mixer (allen heath qu-pac) for my band. We used an Allen Heath mixwizard and analog outboard for many years. I compared both systems side by side in my studio. First compared the preamps, then compared the eqs, then compressors, reverbs and delays. While I preffered my outboard reverbs and delays everything else I preferred on the Qu-pac. The vocals sounded clearer and even the singers said the vocals sounded much better in the monitors. However listening to the mains in front the vocals did not blend at all well with each other when multiple singers sang together, the bass drum did not have the same solidity, and the whole mix did not feel anywhere near as solid and distinct as it used to.

I find this to be a very good analogy in the digital vs tape world. Perhaps when listening to individual sources digital can sound clearer and less noisy but its what happens as you layer things together that I think the tape recordings maintain there separation and solidity better.

I just spent a lot of time listening to tracks recorded with Burls as well as recordings recorded on tape and my heart very much favors the recordings made on tape. I'd still be interested in a direct side by side comparison of the exact instrument/vocal being recorded to both formats simultaneously to eliminate other variables but for now Tape sounds better to my ears.
Old 2 days ago
  #187
YouTube

Guys, this is brilliant tape sound.

A good reason to keep my 2" machine despite Burl converter.

Needless to say more.

R.
Old 2 days ago
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf Ebitsch View Post
YouTube

Guys, this is brilliant tape sound.

A good reason to keep my 2" machine despite Burl converter.

Needless to say more.

R.
Nice. How bout this one on a Studer A80:

YouTube
Old 2 days ago
  #189
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Nice. How bout this one on a Studer A80:

YouTube
Bunker studio is a nice place indeed! Good people there (and good stuff).



Cheu
Old 2 days ago
  #190
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deuc647's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Nice. How bout this one on a Studer A80:

YouTube
Damn that drummer killed it!!!!!!
Old 2 days ago
  #191
Gear Addict
 
Deuce 225's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf Ebitsch View Post
YouTube

Guys, this is brilliant tape sound.

A good reason to keep my 2" machine despite Burl converter.

Needless to say more.

R.
Thanks Rolf!

Suzanne killed that take. I think that was the third and last take of the song we did that day. The section that begins @ 3:30 still gives me goosebumps. She is an amazing artist who literally "brings it" every performance.

You may be interested to know when we "print" the final mix from our Neve 8014 to digital we do use our Burl B2 Bomber A/D converter.

Thanks again!
Old 2 days ago
  #192
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Nice. How bout this one on a Studer A80:

YouTube
Thanks for sharing this. This guy is awesome! Great HiFi sound
Old 2 days ago
  #193
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I just spent a lot of time listening to tracks recorded with Burls as well as recordings recorded on tape and my heart very much favors the recordings made on tape. I'd still be interested in a direct side by side comparison of the exact instrument/vocal being recorded to both formats simultaneously to eliminate other variables but for now Tape sounds better to my ears.
Tape sounds better to my ears too.
Still, even in 2018.
I am the process of moving my entire NYC studio to Lewisham, SE London, UK.
Mostly Analog but fully hybrid. Will upgrade the converters to Burl for those who need to take tracks. I have been really enjoying pro tools lately for making mock edits before someone cuts the 2" tape. I enjoy having 96K backups of all tracks. I replaced something today that was mistakenly wiped on a 2" master with 22 seconds of the track coming back to tape from digital.

The most magical moments to me of doing this for the past 16 years in Manhattan have been great players and great songs and getting great sounds really quickly and recording live music to 2" 8 track or 2" 16 track. What happens in those moments if the players are great is something bigger than the sum of parts.
There is no way to get there via multitracks without a real live core, and as old and difficult and luddite as my opinion may be, there is no way to capture that sound with digital equipment. The digital can store it great and manipulate it, but it has to start on 2" tape. That 3D space and depth still exist only there for me.

I wish this were not the case.
It is easier and much cheaper to use digital.
Analog likes great techs taking care of it regularly, but when this is done, it really sparkles.............



Be well


Jack
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