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AnaMod : ATS-1 Tape Simulator
Old 1st April 2010
  #1261
Here for the gear
 

I'm totaly with the above writer.
I don't know what the cards looks like, but I bet they are sealed, and having minimum amounts of (cheap) components in them.
So its really a money squeezing thing they do.
I think the phrase "By popular demand, wow and flutter is not included" is kinda funny.
It sure would be nice to have the option to add some wow and flutter, because thats half of what tape is.
This can't be done with analog circuitry, so they call it "by popular demand"...
Maybe they add the flutter card later on...
Old 1st April 2010
  #1262
Lives for gear
 

I do sympathise somewhat with people saying that the cards should be included, but a few minutes of google will arm anyone with the information that they should opt for one or both of the extra machine cards. Thus forewarned, it's just a matter of factoring that into the price IF you want to mix through the unit...because in fact the A800 is kind of the cool one if you're just tracking stuff IMO. Yes it's expensive with all the options but it does something amazing and beautiful which cant be done in any other way.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1263
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DONNX's Avatar
 

That would be nice. But that won't happen. heh





Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
anamod's business model reminds me a lot of apple...let's make a GREAT product, take out the best function for now, release it and sell these "best" functions for a premium later on or as an Version 2...
for the price of this machine I truly believe that it should come with all the cards included, especially since everyone is saying how they don't even use the stock ones at all and ONLY use the extra cards...I'm planning on checking it out but I just don't like the way they do business, way overpriced, as great as the machine seems to be (and Money is not really a problem for me it's more on the "principle").
Sell me a machine I can use with the best options out the box, don't give me some crappy cards and tell me "oh you wanted the good ones? well you have to pay extra", if the machine was $1200 maybe but at the price they are selling it adding the cost of the extra "must" have cards is exagerated
my 2 cents
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1264
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

When you're talking Anamod circuit design, and pics of such, you might as well be talking flux capacitor physics 'cos your your not gonna see a blown, fuel injected nitroused big block chevy under the hood,....no big tranny's, caps, etc.

You're gonna open it and say; 'what did I just pay for?'

What you paid for is the design, R&D and genius of the Anamod team.

Anamod defines 'magic box' in the pro audio high end market.

EDIT: Hmmm, much of my post was inspired by a previous posters post, who just edited out most of their post. oh well, I'll leave my post as is.

Last edited by Fleaman; 2nd April 2010 at 01:01 AM.. Reason: .
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1265
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Yea I edited my post. I realized that they have a nice picture of the gutz and cards on Anamods SOS magazine review. Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
When you're talking Anamod circuit design, and pics of such, you might as well be talking flux capacitor physics 'cos your your not gonna see a blown, fuel injected nitroused big block chevy under the hood,....no big tranny's, caps, etc.

You're gonna open it and say; 'what did I just pay for?'

What you paid for is the design, R&D and genius of the Anamod team.

Anamod defines 'magic box' in the pro audio high end market.

EDIT: Hmmm, much of my post was inspired by a previous posters post, who just edited out most of their post. oh well, I'll leave my post as is.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1266
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

B.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
anamod's business model reminds me a lot of apple...let's make a GREAT product, take out the best function for now, release it and sell these "best" functions for a premium later on or as an Version 2...
for the price of this machine I truly believe that it should come with all the cards included, especially since everyone is saying how they don't even use the stock ones at all and ONLY use the extra cards...I'm planning on checking it out but I just don't like the way they do business, way overpriced, as great as the machine seems to be (and Money is not really a problem for me it's more on the "principle").
Sell me a machine I can use with the best options out the box, don't give me some crappy cards and tell me "oh you wanted the good ones? well you have to pay extra", if the machine was $1200 maybe but at the price they are selling it adding the cost of the extra "must" have cards is exagerated
my 2 cents

Everybody wants something for nothing

And exactly how are you determining worth???

NOTHING does what this box does. The amount of value in R&D alone makes this worth much MUCH more than the next best thing. Care to tell me if you own a Portico 5042? or Fatso? or Cransong? or how about a Studer A80? or 102? or 351? Do you have GP9 stock? How about all the other tape stocks?

And please tell me how you can buy more than two perfectly aligned and conditioned vintage tape machines with various tapes stocks,all ready to go for less than what the Anamod costs

The sense of entitlement these days is absurd!


-Andrws
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1267
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

I've got all the cards. I wouldn't say 1 is better than any other.
I don't even know which cards are in which slot. I just switch
between them and turn the knobs until it sounds the best.

I'm using it more as a synthesis tool though.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1268
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mdjice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Everybody wants something for nothing

And exactly how are you determining worth???

NOTHING does what this box does. The amount of value in R&D alone makes this worth much MUCH more than the next best thing. Care to tell me if you own a Portico 5042? or Fatso? or Cransong? or how about a Studer A80? or 102? or 351? Do you have GP9 stock? How about all the other tape stocks?

And please tell me how you can buy more than two perfectly aligned and conditioned vintage tape machines with various tapes stocks,all ready to go for less than what the Anamod costs

The sense of entitlement these days is absurd!


-Andrws
Who said I wanted anything for free ?? I spend more money on gear than I would spend on myself or my wife!...
I guess before talking you should inform yourself a little bit who you are talking to and What gear I *have , have access to or have used... We have like 6 different tape machines here, just ran the Pussycat doll song I produced thru an otari half inch and it sounds perfect, getting tape is annoying which is why I was looking at the anamod, now as I said, charging for a product is one thing, over charging and spliting a final product into more products to make profit is something else, the box has a knob that switches to 4 machines right? Well they should come installed especially for that price , also you talk about R&D? Dave even admited that all the algorithm were from what he did on the plugin, R&D should have been recouped already, it was just adaptation NOT creating from scratch... Now if you feel the need to justify your purchase that's great, go tell someone who actually cares...
I'm not bashing the box at all! What I have heard so far seems promissing and i even contacted the guys at anamod as I was intersted in cheking one out, I however don't agree with the way they are selling the gear, half loaded keeping the best for the extra cards...*
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1269
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
Who said I wanted anything for free ?? I spend more money on gear than I would spend on myself or my wife!...
I guess before talking you should inform yourself a little bit who you are talking to and What gear I *have , have access to or have used... We have like 6 different tape machines here, just ran the Pussycat doll song I produced thru an otari half inch and it sounds perfect, getting tape is annoying which is why I was looking at the anamod, now as I said, charging for a product is one thing, over charging and spliting a final product into more products to make profit is something else, the box has a knob that switches to 4 machines right? Well they should come installed especially for that price , also you talk about R&D? Dave even admited that all the algorithm were from what he did on the plugin, R&D should have been recouped already, it was just adaptation NOT creating from scratch... Now if you feel the need to justify your purchase that's great, go tell someone who actually cares...
I'm not bashing the box at all! What I have heard so far seems promissing and i even contacted the guys at anamod as I was intersted in cheking one out, I however don't agree with the way they are selling the gear, half loaded keeping the best for the extra cards...*
You really ought to take your own advice on the "knowing who you're talking to..."

The rest of us will support good gear and vote with our dollars, the only real barometer.

Good luck to ya


-Andrews
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1270
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1271
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
great post bro.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1272
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
mdjice,
welcome to the reality of the "followers of anamod". As soon as someone says something negative a bunch of guys, fanboys, business partners, personal friends of the two designers etc. come around to bash you because you voiced your opinion. Been there done that. I personally had some of the worst buyer/manufacturer experiences EVER with anamod and have experienced some crazy **** with that exact pattern.

On your point, it is TOTALLY valid. Selling something that, from most users point of view, is missing essential features that have to be bought at an extra cost (and cannot be had instead of the stock options) is a business practice which is totally legal, but not very customer friendly as it increases the already high price while leaving the customer with stuff they have to pay for but do not need.
Your points, Andrews & ubk, are also totally valid, they just have NOTHING to do with mdjice´s opinion. It´s expensive (or not), you and others think it´s well worth paying for it. I paid for it too. Fine. It still has nothing to do with said business practice.

There are a lot more possible downsides to the anamod that are not really discussed here....wonder why .... maybe people don´t want to spend their time arguing against the mighty following.

Rock on!
Pat
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1273
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboys View Post
mdjice,
welcome to the reality of the "followers of anamod". As soon as someone says something negative a bunch of guys, fanboys, business partners, personal friends of the two designers etc. come around to bash you because you voiced your opinion. Been there done that. I personally had some of the worst buyer/manufacturer experiences EVER with anamod and have experienced some crazy **** with that exact pattern.

On your point, it is TOTALLY valid. Selling something that, from most users point of view, is missing essential features that have to be bought at an extra cost (and cannot be had instead of the stock options) is a business practice which is totally legal, but not very customer friendly as it increases the already high price while leaving the customer with stuff they have to pay for but do not need.
Your point, Andrews, is also totally valid, it just has NOTHING to do with mdjice´s opinion. It´s expensive (or not), you and others think it´s well worth paying for it. Fine. It still has nothing to do with said business practice.

There are a lot more possible downsides to the anamod that are not really discussed here....wonder why .... maybe people don´t want to spend their time arguing against the mighty following.

Rock on!
Pat
some valid points, but one good thing about capitalism is that the perceived value of any product will drive the price up or down. so long as people pay for it, that's what it's worth. eg. people can bitch about the vintage market being unrealistic, but so long as it's realistic for some hobbyists and guys that don't even record, that's what it's worth. you always have the choice not to buy anamods, pultecs, '69 les pauls or anything else.

we owned ATRs, A800s, etc. when they were new products. the A800 was worth $80K when it came out (we had three). besides the sound and fast transport, they payed for themselves rather quickly; so in my estimation they were very much worth it. so what's the ATS-1 worth now, with or without the extra cards? IFO have no complaints.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1274
Lives for gear
 
exwel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
+1

Love my Anamod ATS + all cards.
And the cards are cheapthumbsup

And had good contact with the guys off Anamod.

If the Anamod was 10k i bought it all so.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1275
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

I dunno, this seems to be (for some), bitching about a price on a high end piece of gear in the high end forum.

Regardless of the option cards inclusion or not, it's as simple as buying the unit + cards (if you want) or not. And you have the option not to.

The ATS-1 is far from being the only high-end piece that has external options avail. At least the cards are relatively cheap.

What if the ATS-1 had no card slot option? What if all you got was the studer machine and 456 tape? Then, if Anamod revealed they did have a pre-production ATS-1 that had optional cards for different machines/tapes, and that those cards would only be around $300ea, everyone here (just about) would whine/beg and ask why Anamod didn't produce this unit?

Heck, just the remote for the Bricasti M7 is $2300 f*cking bucks.

It is what it is. I vote with my $$$. I haven't bought another ATS-1 due to the price, yet I am very happy with the one I have. At the current price I can't really justify a more multitrack like set up. The per ch cost will have to come down quite a bit. This hasn't stopped me from getting a pair of Anamod 660's though.

I do wish out loud, but I tend to not get bitchy about it. That's just me.

It's not rocket science to the Anamod team that if they drop their prices, they will sell more units. Yet they may not be able to hold the bottom line up at those reduced prices (law of diminishing returns), and may have to hold off on investing into other potentially ground breaking products in the future. Maybe Anamod could have sold the ATS-1's for $2000ea instead of $3000, but that could have very well meant the ATS-1 would be the first and last Anamod product to be released.

Finally, it's a free market. So ANYONE is free to start up an pro-audio design/manufacturing company themselves and compete directly with Anamod if they think it's so easy and lucrative.

Lots of lip service here, but that's really about it.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1276
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboys View Post
There are a lot more possible downsides to the anamod that are not really discussed here....wonder why .... maybe people don´t want to spend their time arguing against the mighty following.

Rock on!
Pat
A 'lot' 'more possible downsides'? Not discussed here?

Instead of insinuating a conspiracy (so typical here----not just you, but a reoccurring theme on GS), why not be forthright and list them out (since there are so many possible downsides?).
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1277
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mdjice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Ubk, I definitely respect your point of you, however I know exactly how difficult and expensive it is to build something fom the ground up, I'm working on 3 different projects (2 gear oriented) and I know how it goes however we are still working on pricing it in a way where we can make money hut without over charging ... For example I'm very curious about your clarifinic an it's priced JUST RIGHT !!
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1278
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
But is anyone really designing anything really original these days in pro audio that warrants this much attention?

Lets be honest, open almost anything up that's being done these days, which people term so called "original", "unique", "revolutionary" and its just carbon copies of circuits done before that have been out there for the longest times. I mean the longer you roll around in the pro audio business the more you get to learn & understand that there were really only handful of guys who really knew what the hell was going on and they came and went.

Why do modern gear manufacturers no longer offer schematics when you purchase their gear? If you open up their gear their is a sticker warning you that you just voided the warranty. They don't want you peeking under the hood and checking out the "emperors clothes". How the fukk am i supposed to fix it in a middle of a session if i have no docs? Its like they want you to send it to some service center for some flat ass rate or send it back to the manufacturer. Memo to gear designers out there...someof us so called engineers understand what the hell is really going on in our studios and we are not looking to steal your "original ideas" and posting them on some DIY website.

At least have the courtesy to give the older cats their credit due. Don't try to pull it off like your doing something really original because you are rolling your own trannies and using fancy knobs.

I know this is coming across like a "moan zone" post but it really burns me up that instead of moving the game forward, its just stagnating walking backwards.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1279
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
But is anyone really designing anything really original these days in pro audio that warrants this much attention?

There are a few: Ruben at Elysia. The mpressor is a totally new beast, and the muse eq is as well.

Tim at Buzz, check out the resonance eq.

The crew at innertube, the ASB is not another vca/fet/opto thing.

The thinking at Little Labs is just plain clever; IBP is a lifesaver, VOG is weird and badass.

Personally, I think the idea of modeling a complex circuit digitally, then creating an "analog o/s" to port your binary code into resistors and capacitors, is ludicrously brilliant... not least of which because it works, and the analog model of the digital model sounds better than the digital model.

I take your point about most new designs being rehashes of old ones, because it's true. The actual filters in my new eq are absolute textbook, but afaik we're the first to use the shapes we did in the way we did to produce the sound we did, I haven't heard anything like it elsewhere. It's not exactly a revolution, but I'm pretty sure analog revolutions will be smaller and farther between until we find revolutionary new ways to capture, store, and playback sound, at which point the field will open up again.

Until then, it seems we have to content ourselves with small steps and cool innovations rather than game-changers. But ya never know what's around the corner.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1280
Gear Maniac
 

ubk and me

So anyway, this was like three Tuesdays ago. Greg calls me up and is like, "So? You wanna do this thing?" And I'm like, "Dude, you ask me this every month." And he's like, "So? You wanna?" And I'm like, "Dude. You don't think I can hear your car in front of my place? Just let me slide into my see-through leather pants and grab some Maiden!"

I adjust my crotch one last time as I head out the door (just for show, in case some sweet thing is watching). Greg powers down the driver-side window and I can hear "The Trooper" raging from his Enzo's stereo. "Compass Point, mutha!!!!!!!!!" he screams while doing his best Rivethead hand gestures.

I shovel the pile of cash on the passenger seat into the gutter and hop in.

Even in a Ferrari, it takes all night to get to Texas. But that's fine: it gives me time to look at the pictures of his new Citation VII on his Hasselblad. "So get this," he confides. "You know that new Clarifornication Spatulator I'm making?"

"I thought it was called a Clari... Clarifon... uh..."

"Yeah, something like that. My lady does the names... who cares anyway? So, I just scored a pile of old BBE 462s on eBay. Slap on a new faceplate -- man, those Gearons dig brown faceplates for some reason -- and that new Continental GTC Speed is as good as in my stable."

Gearons. I always pushed for "Morgears" but Greg is Batman and I'm Robin so when it came time to combine "morons" with "gear" he kinda had the final say.

"Dude, I know you're getting the Speed because Amels only has the GTC."

Greg ignores my little jab but it kind of kills the conversation. One thing I've learned about rich folk: they hate it when you bring up OTHER rich folk.

We roll into the outskirts of Austin around breakfast. The rusty Winnebago Mark McQuilken lives in is easy to spot, but hard-to-find: it's usually tucked away at some rest stop or in the back corner of a Wal-Mart parking lot. We finally locate it between enormous dumpsters at a Safeway with his wife's tatty Yugo parked alongside. Looks like they aren't up yet.

Greg finds a patch of loose gravel nearby and, with as much stealth as those Italian horses can muster, aims the Enzo's ass towards the McQuilken "residence."

"Do you think he knows?" I whisper.

"Oh, I think he's figured it out by now," Greg sneers, slipping in the clutch and revving the engine so high the cacophony sends the Yugo's tailpipe clanking to the ground.

The door to the 'Bago flies open all akimbo on its one good hinge and a bleary-eyed, but clearly enraged, McQuilken shakes his fist and yells some "Really Nice" epithets at us. We give him just enough time to read "UBK" on Greg's vanity plate before the hero of our story drops the clutch. The wheels are turbines in the gravel and launch a shower of pebbles. Shingles of rust drop from the Yugo, one of the Winnebago's windows is knocked out, and I'm pretty sure Mark didn't get his arms across his face in time to save his glasses from being shattered. Greg turns the burnout into a doughnut. The centrifugal force makes it easy for me wedge my butt out the passenger window.

We race from the parking lot just as Mark's wife appears, curlers in hair, to scold her ne'r do well spouse.

"Can't imagine why she stays with that fool," Greg laughs. "I mean, he makes... what? 10-15 bucks per RNC? I'm clearing nearly 2K per Fatso. It's all about MARKUP, man. Set the MSRP high as the moon. Screw what the R & D really costs. Screw actual manufacturing costs. Screw it all. But most of all, screw the Gearons!" He adds for emphasis, "GOD, I'm sexy!"

"Still, it's pretty nice what you do for Mark," I say. "You could just pick up the RNCs you sneak inside your --ahem-- 'UBKFatsos' from Craig's List instead of buying new."

"Yeah. I'm soft like that."

And with a sly smile and a wink, Greg dimes the volume just as the great Mr. Dickinson wails, "Where eagles dare!"
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1281
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
Instead of insinuating a conspiracy (so typical here----not just you, but a reoccurring theme on GS), why not be forthright and list them out (since there are so many possible downsides?).

Not every negative voice is trying to establish a conspiracy, but that just on a sidenote.

So, either as absolute or relative to other saturation processes possible downsides, which I do not see much if at all discussed here on GS, those come to mind (I might be wrong with some points and always open for being corrected in a polite way!):

1 - the ATS1 has a relatively low internal headroom, or in other words, there is a maximum amount of drive that you can get from the tape emulation (software) after which the analog computer (hardware) that is running the software will clip. Bob Katz wrote about it in his thread about the ATS1, nobody ever mentions it it seems....

2 - the ATS1 has (in comparison to other highend hardwareunits) a pretty, pretty high noisefloor (even with "hiss" turned all the way down). On top, my unit´s noisefloor is higher on one channel, making it even more annoying, I got the same description of different noisefloors from other users as well.
Then there are also units out there (early unmodded EU-units for example but also improved EU units like mine) which have a buzz as a part of their noisefloor. This makes the noise more audible and annoying. For example it is hard for me to use a common practice to pre-emphasize (cut) the bass for more saturation in the mids and highs before the ATS and de-emphasize(boost) it after the saturation, as the post ATS bass boost also boosts the bassy buzztone, sometimes into well audible regions (during quiet passages like intros, pauses and fadeouts).

3 - The combination of high noisefloor and low headroom makes it necessary to use the ATS as hot as possible to get away from the noise, especially on single tracks where you might use lotsa compression afterwards, but at the same time you are endangered that an unexpected high peak might result in clipping of the hardware. In the real world it means that I do not use it much pre DAW as it is risky. A singer who sings some low level stuff might result in audible annoying noisefloor, a too loud burst might result in distortion.

4 - The frequency curves of the tapemachines cannot be bypassed. Yes, you cannot bypass them on a real tapemachine either, but it is a disadvantage compared to other forms of saturation where you can have the saturation only without numerous bumps and cuts in the f-range. Run through the 351 card twice (once in the mix, once on the buss for example) and that signal will have an accumulated lowbass boost of around 6-8dB and 3-5dB of boost in the upper mids/highs.

5 - Nobody knows how long these machines and cards are going to last. They are a mainboard filled with PC-RAM-like slots and cards that run very hot. If they fail after 10 years maybe, who is going to (be able to) repair them? Yes, the two guys from Anamod. Are they gonna be around then? Nobody knows. No regular tech will ever be able to handle these machines besides powersupply matters. These are analog computers with software cards. Only the guys who made them will be able to analyze and repair them without spending years of analyzing what is going on inside. What if Anamod is out of business then? What if you have a dispute with the manufacturer (like I did, or actually do) and you need or are entitled to repair/service but do not get treated properly or at all?

6 - not a real downside of the ATS1 (concerns all kinds of gear hyped on forums) but am I the only one on GS who thinks, despite the fact that the ATS1 is pretty much the best and most versatile tape emulation out there, that the HYPE it gets on GS is still overblown and out of proportion? I mean, there have been thousands of fantastic sounding records over the past 20 years that have neither hit tape nor the anamod, there are the world´s top mixers and engineers who were and are doing fantastic work and fantastic results without any of this. I am a little sick of anything that is being hyped so much on forums that many guys with less experience will think the ATS1 is some sort of magic device that makes THE difference between professional sound and non professional sound. A great engineer will produce better results without the ATS1 than a mediocre one with an ATS1. Regarding hype an fanboyism, sometimes less is more. It´s a bit like boobs. The biggest, roundest boobs might be an achievement, but really, do they make your f*ck better? Not necessarily....


Rock on!
Pat
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1282
Lives for gear
 
JCRockit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm just going to gingerly step into the fray and respectfully submit that, as I approach final assembly on my first truly from-the-ground-up piece of gear... until you have undertaken the task of taking something from the idea stage to the final production stage, you have absolutely no idea how brutal, dense, mind-numbingly difficult, expensive, risky, and prone to utter peril the whole process is.

And I would also submit that until you have a true understanding of the reason that a product which costs $400 to build in quantity needs to sell for 4-5 times that in order to merely sustain a business, let alone grow it and feed more than 2 mouths, you also lack the knowledge to pass judgment on such things.

If these were hamburgers, or ipods... things that sell by the hundreds of thousands, then the economies of scale tilt and the price structure that the capitalist/corporatist world has spoiled us all with can support a business. But with these boutique products which, if you're *extremely lucky* sell 10 or 20 a month and eat 25-50% of your gross profit simply to produce, let alone market, ship, sell, service, support, house, and possibly put food on the table... well, all I can say is this **** is a serious labor of love, and afaik none of us are buying yachts with the proceeds of our high end recording toy sales.

Some days I honestly can't believe I intend to continue further into the world of manufacturing exotic pieces for a tiny market, there were so many days this year when I cursed the skies and swore up and down I'd never do it again. All these guys that do it, imho they deserve our deepest gratitude, and the guys like anamod who are actually breaking new ground and rescuing precious old technology from the brink of extinction deserve our awe and respect as well.

All those tape machines in a 2RU box with zero maintenance. ****. If it cost $10k it'd STILL be a friggin' bargain.


Gregory Scott - ubk
whhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa thats it Im going to buy 5 UBk Fatsos , screw the mortgage ! Im sorry for even looking on Craiglist now!
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1283
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsma View Post
"I thought it was called a Clari... Clarifon... uh..."

"Yeah, something like that. My lady does the names... who cares anyway?

That's the funniest friggin' thing I've read here all week, I shot a wad of half-chewed bagel onto my keyboard when I took it in.



Quote:
One thing I've learned about rich folk: they hate it when you bring up OTHER rich folk.

That's the best line in an amazing little chunk of writing.

I hope you're getting your **** into print, man.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1284
Lives for gear
 
dpianomn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsma View Post
Greg turns the burnout into a doughnut. The centrifugal force makes it easy for me wedge my butt out the passenger window.
heh
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1285
Gear Addict
 
sfoote's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
I've got all the cards. I wouldn't say 1 is better than any other.
I don't even know which cards are in which slot. I just switch
between them and turn the knobs until it sounds the best.

I'm using it more as a synthesis tool though.
That's what I do too. I could care less whether this is a tape simulator or a compressor, chorus box. I just like the way it makes things sound and that's why I use it.

After all, most of us haven't lived with tape for 20 years to know the differences. But dude, I like this anamod thing.

Quote:
so long as people pay for it, that's what it's worth.
Dead on. I'm a capitalist by day. We can complain all we want about Anamod cost versus price, but in the end, the goal of business is profit. Otherwise, it's not business, it's charity.

Picking the right price depends on elasticity of demand. If Anamod cut their margins in half (which might only reduce the price from $3k to $2k), demand must double for them to be financially even. If the elasticity of demand is less than that, then they are smart not to reduce prices.

In your professional studio, or sales of your album, you should be doing the exact same thing. If you have studio capacity to double volume, and you can do it by reducing your prices by less than half your net margin, then do it. You come out ahead. If you are at capacity already, if you increase prices by more than decrease in client volume, you're ahead. I've been much happier after I raised prices for non-music stuff I do, as a friend said "if you complain that you're too busy, then you're not charging enough."

The bill of materials cost for a $300 iphone is $175. Apple could sell it for $176 and sell a butt load more iphones, but they'd need to sell, what is that, 125 times as many iphones to have the same gross margin revenues. Dream the communist dream on that one, but I don't think it will happen.

Luca di Montezemolo, head of Ferrari knows well elasticity of demand. Ferrari's are dreadfully expensive and desired by many. They make about 6,500 cars a year. When asked what next year's worldwide production volume would be, he responded with "One less car than worldwide demand." That guarantees maximum sales at his chosen price point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsma View Post
I shovel the pile of cash on the passenger seat into the gutter and hop in.
Dude, tell me where to read more of this good writin'. That was some entertaining stuff. Worth reading the whole thread.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1286
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 

again not bashing the machine, I never used it. I not even complaining about the price, shout my c800g cost $9K my 2 Neves are $9k as well my Neko is $7k...what I'm complaining about is the way they sell the stuff, it's like selling you a car but you only get 2 new tires, you can still drive on the rims, not the best but it might get you there, if you want the other 2 tires you got to pay extra...makes no sense...
again the price is high but ok...if it comes with all the cards as it should, if you water down the product then water down the price too!
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1287
Lives for gear
 
Tom H's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
There are a few: Ruben at Elysia. The mpressor is a totally new beast, and the muse eq is as well.

Tim at Buzz, check out the resonance eq.

The crew at innertube, the ASB is not another vca/fet/opto thing.

The thinking at Little Labs is just plain clever; IBP is a lifesaver, VOG is weird and badass.
Thought the same thing...

SPL, Vertigo and ADT come to mind too.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1288
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
...what I'm complaining about is the way they sell the stuff, it's like selling you a car but you only get 2 new tires, you can still drive on the rims, not the best but it might get you there, if you want the other 2 tires you got to pay extra...makes no sense...

You mention cars which I think is the perfect comparison: it is standard practice in the auto industry to sell you a car with a basic package, and you can add on the expensive, more desirable options from there... or not.

The product in question isn't a car with 2 tires, because you can't use a car with two tires. The analogy is a car with goodyears, and if you want the pirelli's you gotta pay extra, but not everyone wants the pirelli's and if you price the product in a way that forces the pirelli's on everyone, you put the whole product out of reach of a good number of people who could otherwise afford the basic model.

You want 550a's instead of b's in those Legacy channels? That's more $. You want dynamics on the busses? That's more $. Pro Tools TDM cards to increase processing power. ADAT i/o in your apogee converters. Add-ons, options... old as the hills.

You can decide for yourself if you want the hyped up cards, if they're worth the price of admission. I'm trying to understand what your true objection is to this approach, what about it is getting under your skin.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1289
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
You mention cars which I think is the perfect comparison: it is standard practice in the auto industry to sell you a car with a basic package, and you can add on the expensive, more desirable options from there... or not.

The product in question isn't a car with 2 tires, because you can't use a car with two tires. The analogy is a car with goodyears, and if you want the pirelli's you gotta pay extra, but not everyone wants the pirelli's and if you price the product in a way that forces the pirelli's on everyone, you put the whole product out of reach of a good number of people who could otherwise afford the basic model.

You can decide for yourself if you want the hyped up cards, if they're worth the price of admission. I'm trying to understand what your true objection is to this approach, what about it is getting under your skin.


Gregory Scott - ubk
well EVERYBODY is talking about how great the EXTRA cards are and how they which they could send the old ones back...
My thing is they should include all cards in them, they are trying so hard to say that it's better then a plugin computer but yet sell it like a computer...oh you want extra ram? here $400... imagine buying a Pultec but it only goes to 12K , you want the 16K? that an extra 500... again it's the apple mentality, let's water down our iPad with no video camera etc... but wait !! we might add the webcam as an EXTRA $79 accessories !! just like they do for the USB port so you are basically FORCED to buy the accessorie if you want a functionality that SHOULD be included, same with the anamod you sell me a GREAT machine...wait it's ONLY great when you buy the extra cards/??... nothing will convince me that it's good business practice sorry.
The Least they should do would be to include one of the 351 or 102 card STOCK with the machine and IF you want the other good card you buy it, I think that would be fair, wouldn't you?
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1290
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
well EVERYBODY is talking about how great the EXTRA cards are and how they which they could send the old ones back...

I guess that's probably the key question: is this simply a widely held belief, or is it truth? One thing I'm careful about is taking the 25 or 75 loudest voices on gearslutz as reflecting some gospel truth. Until I know for myself, I don't know.

But I do take your point, and I know if I developed a product with multiple options like this I would probably do it as you suggest and find a way to include them all without jacking the cost, or I'd leave them all out and let people add them a-la carte from a blank starting point. If it became clear over time that no one ever chose options A & B, I'd simply stop offering them.

It's funny, I did actually have the option of doing the UBK Fatso that way, of offering all kinds of different presets in a mix-and-match config. But the logistics alone of tracking the various orders, doing each mod on a custom config basis, and having people second guess and change their minds or agonize over which way to go and never be able to decide... I made the choice to include the ones I felt were the strongest, fix a price, and let that be the product.

I get why anamod does it their way, it doesn't bug me, but ultimately you & I are in agreement in terms of how we'd do it ourselves. Which is the beauty of it, right? We're all free to sail our own ships.

So... any chance of a hint or preview of what you're workin' on gearwise?

We'll have to sit and have a cuppa some day and swap manufacturing war stories, like the one where my 50 chassis all arrived at the top-level assemblers and the head tech calls me up: "ummm... are your back panels supposed to be silk-screened upside down?"




Gregory Scott - ubk
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