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story of the year punchy drum sound!!!
Old 15th January 2007
  #1
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flipmodea's Avatar
 

story of the year punchy drum sound!!!

Hey guys..........i've been tryin to get a drum sound close to story of the year...u can hear the songs here: http://www.myspace.com/storyoftheyear.......but i cant quite get my snare to sound like it. I'm using the 1st Ludwig snare from DFHS with some clearmountain snare samples on top. the problem is i like the punch from the ludwig and it is the main body of my snare sound but the ping on it is disgusting...and if i gate it i loose to much punch...a multiband gate i thought would work well (gating the low end and letting the high end thru) but i dont have one..im using paralel compression and i've got DFHS and DFHCV and i have all the uad compressors. also i have some live overheads and room tracks layered over the drums that we recorded in the studio...Has anyone got close to the Story Of thr Year drumsound using dfh? If yes please help a desperate and fed up producer....thanx
Old 15th January 2007
  #2
Gear Addict
 
erock's Avatar
 

Are we talking Page Avenue or In The Wake of Determination?


if Page Avenue, I would use kind of a 'pump' compression. Low threshold (-20dB or -25dB maybe?), medium-fast attack and short release I think.

You can probably get a similar snare sound for ITWOD if you kind of back off on all of those settings some. Make the threshold like -15 or -10, give it a faster attack and maybe a little longer release.

The threshold is what I a starting guide based on what I generally use. I guess it depends on how much input gain the snare was tracked at.

EDIT: I see you're using UAD modeled compressors. Use the All Buttons In method. It might help with the Page Avenue sound.
Old 15th January 2007
  #3
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drundall's Avatar
 

Just use samples and parallel compression. Boom.
Old 15th January 2007
  #4
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flipmodea's Avatar
 

drum sample cd's

hey,
any phat ass sounding sample CD's of shells (snare, Kicks, Toms)?

I've just checked out that a new drum sample CD at

http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/

It seems to be really good but not fully convinced yet, the demos on the website sound pretty good, punchy and not so ringy like most of the snares out there and really nice room sounds.
one downsound of this product is the price, seems a bit much for a sample cd.
But if the drums are as sick as their claim them to be then I wouldn't mind spending that amount for it.

...
Old 15th January 2007
  #5
Dan
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Dan's Avatar
 

sounds like a sample has been added in, but also if you have a 480, try using "strong ambience" or "heavy ambience"
Old 15th January 2007
  #6
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luctellier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmodea View Post
Hey guys..........i've been tryin to get a drum sound close to story of the year...u can hear the songs here: http://www.myspace.com/storyoftheyear.......but i cant quite get my snare to sound like it. I'm using the 1st Ludwig snare from DFHS with some clearmountain snare samples on top. the problem is i like the punch from the ludwig and it is the main body of my snare sound but the ping on it is disgusting...and if i gate it i loose to much punch...a multiband gate i thought would work well (gating the low end and letting the high end thru) but i dont have one..im using paralel compression and i've got DFHS and DFHCV and i have all the uad compressors. also i have some live overheads and room tracks layered over the drums that we recorded in the studio...Has anyone got close to the Story Of thr Year drumsound using dfh? If yes please help a desperate and fed up producer....thanx
Hi Flipmodea,

I'm a big fan of John Feldman's work as a producer for Story Of The Year, Mest, The Used and City Sleep.

I'm currently recording/mixing my solo project just for fun playing, drums, bass, guitar and sing which sounds similar to SOTY (see attached file).

I know that John is using a lot of samples and sound replacement. You don't really have the choice in that kind of music. Here's 2 links to interviews with John revealing some of his secrets:

MCDsp
http://www.mcdsp.com/index.php?optio...d=29&Itemid=34

Vintage Microphone
http://www.vintagemicrophone.com/JSh...article23.html

EQ Mag
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storyCode=7649

In the file I've attached, I used my orange county snare (14 x 8", 30 ply) using a SM57 on top and NT1000 on bottom. The kick is a DW 22x18 using a MD421. It's all mixed in the box. I used the Waves SSL E-Channel on kick/snare/tom/overheads and parrallel compression for the drum buss with the Waves SSl Buss Compressor.

Hope that helps!
Attached Files

Last edited by luctellier; 15th January 2007 at 08:32 PM.. Reason: added a link
Old 17th January 2007
  #7
Gear Nut
 
flipmodea's Avatar
 

cool thanks for posting your comments, interesting info.
Old 17th January 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 

terrible drum sound in my opinion, but yes samples samples samples and you'll get there.
Old 14th May 2007
  #9
Gear Nut
 
iamproof's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrogantbastard View Post
terrible drum sound in my opinion, but yes samples samples samples and you'll get there.
i dunno if your reffering to LucTellier's sample or story of the year but on both counts i have to disagree IMHO
Old 14th May 2007
  #10
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmodea View Post
the problem is i like the punch from the ludwig and it is the main body of my snare sound but the ping on it is disgusting...and if i gate it i loose to much punch...
Have you thought about trying an SPL "Transient Designer"?

They will often do the trick.

Best of luck with it.
Old 16th May 2007
  #11
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
first suggestion - if gating takes away too much punch but theoretically solves the problem, just use a gat that has a lookahead (ultrafunk gate for example). set it to 5ms lookahead with an atakck of 1ms and predelay the snare track 5ms to compensate for the extra lookahead delay. this way the gate is open when the snare comes in and does not take away the transient punch.

second suggestion - separate the frequencyranges of the two snares. use the punchy one without the highs and the good sounding one without the bass. sometimes this works well.

third suggestion - the comp that defines "punch" to me is an SSL or one of it´s emulations. the URS 1980 comp is great for this. set the attack to 30 or 10, release to 100 and set the threshold so you get about 10dB GR on the meter, mix that in parrallel to taste with the original signal. I also have the UAD plugs, but a 1176 has a too short attack to get the same sort of punch that the SSL can give you. I usually have a parallel with SSL for adding punch and one with a 1176 for adding "room"

Cheers,
Pat
Old 16th May 2007
  #12
Persuade the band that they should develop their own original sound and smash the little stack of CD's they want to exactly copy with a big hammer.
Old 16th May 2007
  #13
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Blast9's Avatar
*APPLAUSE* thumbsup
Old 16th May 2007
  #14
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
...and another one:
after having listened to your sonic goal, it will be much easier to reach with EZdrummer and it´s default library. Use the 13" snare damped and you´re almost there. This little drumplug is way cheaper than BFD, has a much better and easier groovepattern library and sounds much better out of the box. In BFD I was always fighting with everything to make it sound good...in Ezdrummer I make some adjutments and I´m there. The OH and Room signals are just much more useable to me than BFD.

Cheers,
Pat
Old 16th May 2007
  #15
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Persuade the band that they should develop their own original sound and smash the little stack of CD's they want to exactly copy with a big hammer.
I think I just found a new quote to put in my signature!
Old 16th May 2007
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrogantbastard View Post
terrible drum sound in my opinion, but yes samples samples samples and you'll get there.
Sorry.... I hate being negative (it is not my style) but I have to agree here.

This is not a "special" drum sound by any means. It is standard for now, lots of samples, very little "room" or space between the drums in the playing or the recording and no real personality just another drum sound in the ocean of standard modern drum sounds.

I am not trying to start a pissing match here, I respect the work that went into the recording and the people who enjoy it.

That said, these types of drum sounds are allot easier than building a good sound from the ground up. This is not about the art of "recording" it is about the art of "mixing" and that means it is very synthetic. It is built by the guy mixing not the guy playing and the guy recording in the room another guy built.

Not knocking the band or the recording, just not my style.

If you are going for this sound, replace, compress, compress some more then slap a limiter on the whole mix.



Oh and flipmodea, Steven Slate Drums is a fellow GS'er, good guy and GREAT samples. There is a long thread on the New Product forum if you are interested. I have his stuff, I use them on tracks underneath the real snare from time to time and they are really helpful. If you are going for that "all replaced" sound I don't think you would go wrong picking the CD up, really quality work there.



Good luck.
Old 16th May 2007
  #17
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Gear Tramp's Avatar
 

Remember Where You Are, Who You Are, And Where This Is Going!

Listen up:

We engineers can agree there is nothing "special" about drum sounds like this. They require almost zero engineering skills, mic placement, etc. Just replace everything with samples. Make the snare sample consistent and loud, unlike a real snare drum. Make the kick clicky and punchier than it really is.

Ok, sounds like crap to us engineers, huh? Not much to it, really. It sounds like hundreds, if not thousands of other recent albums/bands, etc. Uninspiring to us, the CHOSEN FEW GOLDEN EAR CREW who get off on truly capturing sound.

But... to a 12 year old boy who has never been with a girl, it sounds beyond amazing. I can speak from experience. I've talked to a lot of these kids about albums my band has put out and other high profile bands. They all agree that artificial drums + really ****ing loud guitars = a kick ass recording. I witnessed TONS of kids, TONS! of kids say "WOW! Whoever PRODUCED this album kicks ass. John Feldmann huh? Damn, this sounds ****ing awesome!" when the 1st Used album hit the streets. These are kids who had NEVER BEFORE wondered who the producer was or how it was recorded. So, whether or not it appeals to GEARSLUTZ/ENGINEERS doesn't matter, because we are not the public. We are only the CHOSEN FEW GOLDEN EAR CREW.

With all of that, get to making the record that your clients want to make. They will not be happy unless you do.
Old 16th May 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 

While I understand that a lot of you guys hate the sound of this stuff, I feel that the last persons comments are right on track. That is THE sound of this type of music, love it or hate it.

Plus, I've got a bit of a soft spot for this stuff. My buddy did a lot of it. Haha.
Old 16th May 2007
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear Tramp View Post
Listen up:

We engineers can agree there is nothing "special" about drum sounds like this. They require almost zero engineering skills, mic placement, etc. Just replace everything with samples. Make the snare sample consistent and loud, unlike a real snare drum. Make the kick clicky and punchier than it really is.

Ok, sounds like crap to us engineers, huh? Not much to it, really. It sounds like hundreds, if not thousands of other recent albums/bands, etc. Uninspiring to us, the CHOSEN FEW GOLDEN EAR CREW who get off on truly capturing sound.

But... to a 12 year old boy who has never been with a girl, it sounds beyond amazing. I can speak from experience. I've talked to a lot of these kids about albums my band has put out and other high profile bands. They all agree that artificial drums + really ****ing loud guitars = a kick ass recording. I witnessed TONS of kids, TONS! of kids say "WOW! Whoever PRODUCED this album kicks ass. John Feldmann huh? Damn, this sounds ****ing awesome!" when the 1st Used album hit the streets. These are kids who had NEVER BEFORE wondered who the producer was or how it was recorded. So, whether or not it appeals to GEARSLUTZ/ENGINEERS doesn't matter, because we are not the public. We are only the CHOSEN FEW GOLDEN EAR CREW.

With all of that, get to making the record that your clients want to make. They will not be happy unless you do.

Well.... I am 10000% for doing what the client wants and I agree that "the kids" are into this stuff

BUT

And this is something to stop and think about for a minute or three....

Has it ever crossed your or "our" collective minds that maybe they only like it because they are not familiar with anything else?

Maybe this sounds good to them because they don't have anything to compare it to perhaps? I am not saying that this is the case I am just saying that bread and water taste AMAZING if you have never had steak and fine wine.

Also, in case you have not noticed.... *shhhhhh, between you and me* The record industry is in a WORLD of hurt.



Yeah the kids love this crappy sound.... they love it so much they are running away from it like lemmings off the cliff. Sales of new artists are waaaaaaaaay down, major studios are closing like brothels at Xmas and the record labels are really scared.

Now there are lots of factors at play here and crappy sounding records might not be #1 but I would say that this is part of the problem today.

Would better sounding productions bring them back? No idea but I would say that if you keep doing what you are doing now you will continue to get the same results. If the majors keep doing everything they are doing now and the indy's follow suit, well.... we can all expect a rosy future for the industry.

I say, f*ck M. No more, time for something new and that might just be doing productions that are 100% in the opposite direction of everything you posted... but who am? I just one of the "golden eared crew" who happens to care about production and MUSIC as a whole...

heh

LOL

It's all good man, we agree to disagree.
Old 16th May 2007
  #20
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Gear Tramp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
And this is something to stop and think about for a minute or three....

Has it ever crossed your or "our" collective minds that maybe they only like it because they are not familiar with anything else?
Yes, of course. I'm no noob, lol, omg, roflmao, etc.

That is why I make my own music for myself to listen to. I can cater to myself exactly as I want. I can write and record it as I see it.

Kids are impressionable. You have to get to them before someone else does.

Quote:
Also, in case you have not noticed.... *shhhhhh, between you and me* [SIZE=1]The record industry is in a WORLD of hurt.
I know. The "industry" deserves it to some extent. I'd like to see the musicians & engineers/producers succeed and make more money than the industry heads to tell you the truth. I've met them and they ARE greed. That is the next step, hopefully. A new business model...

Quote:
Yeah the kids love this crappy sound.... they love it so much they are running away from it like lemmings off the cliff. Sales of new artists are waaaaaaaaay down, major studios are closing like brothels at Xmas and the record labels are really scared.
Regardless of physical CD Sales, the profit the industry is making grows because of mp3 downloads. No physical product...

Quote:
Now there are lots of factors at play here and crappy sounding records might not be #1 but I would say that this is part of the problem today.
I agree, but it isn't the primary reason, nor a motive for any casual consumer to demand an industry change. Crappy sounding albums are not the culprit. If they were, many successful acts would not be where they are now.

I think the problem is TALENT. There are tons of mediocre musicians/bands in the spotlight... which leads to EVEN MORE!!!! mediocre bands coming out... which leads to... the bottom of the barrel musicians... and so forth. The American Idol syndrome: "Oh, I can do it better than that."

Maybe, but are you going to be as entertaining doing it? Are you hot and skinny? Are you single? Do you have a lazy eye?

Quote:
Would better sounding productions bring them back? No idea but I would say that if you keep doing what you are doing now you will continue to get the same results. If the majors keep doing everything they are doing now and the indy's follow suit, well.... we can all expect a rosy future for the industry.
I don't think we can... Everybody is so caught up with convenience in the modern world, quality of music went down the drain while quality of movies/DVDs keeps going up. People are starting to only value what they can see on TV. Beyond that, most people don't have a decent amount of concentration so that they can LISTEN to a whole song. Really listen to it. A lot of people can't tell the difference between an Mp3 and the CD, because they don't LISTEN or their ears are just full ****, or they just don't care enough to care because it's convenient and they got it for free... there are so many reasons for them not to care.

It's not like they put any work into the recording right? Most consumers... mind you, the kind of consumers that are dictating the marketplace - Middle America - will not even tip their servers appropriately. The US, at least, is full of cheap bastards.

We are the ones working on it, putting our energy and soul into it... so we expect to see better results at the end, to make our hard work worthwhile. And as crap fills the airwaves and streets, it's discouraging to those trying to make a difference and produce quality material.

Quote:
I say, f*ck M. No more, time for something new and that might just be doing productions that are 100% in the opposite direction of everything you posted... but who am? I just one of the "golden eared crew" who happens to care about production and MUSIC as a whole...
I say f*ck M. too, but at the same time, I work, and I have deadlines to meet, bands to satisfy, labels to satisfy. If I don't do it "right", they'll find someone who will.

Trust me, if everybody cared about music & production as much as me, we'd be living in a modern day musical renaissance.

I do what I can when I can. But when it comes to the new "rock" sound, such as we've been discussing, you gotta do what you gotta do for the style of music you're working on. Soon, a new style will emerge and a new form of production along with it...

Music classes have been cut from grade schools all over the US in the past couple decades. Is it really any ****ing wonder why people of all ages don't appreciate music anymore?!

Quote:
It's all good man, we agree to disagree.
We don't really. I was just being the devils' advocate... because I choose to be both, for a broader worldview.
Old 7th December 2007
  #21
TRA
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TRA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmodea View Post
Hey guys..........i've been tryin to get a drum sound close to story of the year...u can hear the songs here: http://www.myspace.com/storyoftheyear.......but i cant quite get my snare to sound like it. I'm using the 1st Ludwig snare from DFHS with some clearmountain snare samples on top. the problem is i like the punch from the ludwig and it is the main body of my snare sound but the ping on it is disgusting...and if i gate it i loose to much punch...a multiband gate i thought would work well (gating the low end and letting the high end thru) but i dont have one..im using paralel compression and i've got DFHS and DFHCV and i have all the uad compressors. also i have some live overheads and room tracks layered over the drums that we recorded in the studio...Has anyone got close to the Story Of thr Year drumsound using dfh? If yes please help a desperate and fed up producer....thanx

I know they tracked drums a few years ago at Gravity Studios through their Neve that still might be for sale here on GS.
Old 8th October 2008
  #22
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
God I can't wait for this generic sample crap to end.

People need to learn how to engineer/create something new and original for fvcks sake


..
Old 8th October 2008
  #23
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jjblair's Avatar
John and I have been friends for almost twenty years. I love that guy, and would do anything for him. I am so happy that he has found success as a producer. He's a sweetheart, who has toiled for years, and truly deserving of all the great things that have happened for him.

That being said, we have totally divergent tastes in drums, and if anybody brought me that record and asked me to get those drum sounds, I'd probably tell them to find somebody else to work with. In fact, I have a standing ban on splash cymbals for any album I produce. There's a lot of splash going on there.

But John sells way more records than I do, and gets regular rotation on KROQ, so what do I know?

BTW, he usually has Gersh from Drum Fetish provide his kits and tuning. Gersh really knows his ****, and is responsible for teaching me how to tune drums. I'm not sure that it's being recorded the best it can be, though.
Old 8th October 2008
  #24
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firby's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Persuade the band that they should develop their own original sound and smash the little stack of CD's they want to exactly copy with a big hammer.
Thanks Jules.

1. Those sounds suck.

2. Maybe you could get your own sound that is even better.

3. The time it takes to copy a sound is not worth it.

New sounds for new records with new songs.
Old 8th October 2008
  #25
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post

BTW, he usually has Gersh from Drum Fetish provide his kits and tuning. Gersh really knows his ****, and is responsible for teaching me how to tune drums. I'm not sure that it's being recorded the best it can be, though.
yeah its funny people go and hire Gersh,Ross,Lee,D Jenkins etc and still use the same generic samples in the end.
really dumb.
man I remember a while ago getting hired to edit for some folks.. on already great sounding tracks with Gersh' nice red stain grestch kit recorded in Sound city A.hearing the final mix was painful..nothing but generic overprocessed samples,zero human feel .a real wtf? moment
Yep the kids seem to love it
Old 8th October 2008
  #26
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
yeah its funny people go and hire Gersh,Ross,Lee,D Jenkins etc and still use the same generic samples in the end.
really dumb.
man I remember a while ago getting hired to edit for some folk.. on already great sounding tracks with Gersh' nice red stain grestch kit recorded in Sound city A.hearing the final mix was painful..nothing but generic overprocessed samples,zero human feel .a real wtf? moment
Yep the kids seem to love it
right.

my favorite is spending several days in a super nice room with great drums, great mics, great gear....spending tons of time tuning and moving mics...getting a SOUND.....working with the player to get a great GROOVE or FEEL....working on all the fills...REALLY digging into the MOVEMENT of the music......getting a great drum track........

and then beat detective, lock to a grid, lay in samples on kick, snare, toms....until it sounds pretty much what you could get with bfd or a similar "drum" program.


seems silly...but whatever works i suppose.


for what its worth....guys like matt chamberlain and shawn pelton have done records where even THEY get gridlocked, and sample-replaced. i CANNOT imagine hiring matt to play what HE does...and then [email protected]#$%^ it up like that....but, it happens. its modern music.

story of the year=kik/snare/tom samples and overheads. though, in fairness...i have not heard their new record that was done with feldman and elvis.

good guys in that band....known a few of them since they were kids. good example of how HARD work can equal success in this business. same for mr. feldman. whether you like what he does or not...dude has been bustin his butt for years !!! good for him.


best,


jchristopherhughes
Old 8th October 2008
  #27
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jjblair's Avatar
I can proudly say that I rarely feel the need to use samples when mixing drums I've recorded. When I do, it's because of either of the following:

a) Drummer will not use the drums(s) I ask him to use, that I know is right for the track.
b) Drummer doesn't know how to hit a drum and get a solid tone out of it. You'd be surprised how many "metal" drummers have this problem.
c) Somewhere along the line, the production took a turn, and the snare we originally picked doesn't sit in the track the way I'd like.

Otherwise, I find samples totally unnecessary, even to get that KROQ type of sound. I'm mixing a record right now in that style, and in some of the songs, I've had to use zero samples, yet it has that sound. (Except it sound good.)
Old 8th October 2008
  #28
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I like the idea that just by adding drum samples youre going to get an instant John Feldmann sound.

There's a lot more to his drum sound then just some compression and drum samples. If thats all it was wouldn't every kid in their bedroom sound as good as Feldmann?

I know he's pretty hard on people's performances and gets great hard hitting takes out of drummers on very good sounding well tuned sets. I would imagine his raw drum sounds sound amazing to begin with. From what I understand he usually spends about 2 full days getting drum sounds.

The samples are a stylistic decision, not there to replace a sound thats lacking.

I know it seems weird to people on this board but a lot of people LIKE the sound of drum samples in modern music.

The idea that it doesn't take talent to get drum sounds if you use samples seems crazy. For some reason its okay to make R&B and hiphop records primarily with drum samples but you can't do that to a rock band. There's some sort of hidden gearsluts rule that rock drums have to sound like a drummer playing in a room.. don't try and hype it, don't add anything that isn't natural or if you do you don't know what you're doing.

I personally think Feldmann's drum sound is very unique and original. I can immediately tell if he did a record after the couple snare hits and cymbal crashes.
Old 8th October 2008
  #29
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post


The idea that it doesn't take talent to get drum sounds if you use samples seems crazy. For some reason its okay to make R&B and hiphop records primarily with drum samples but you can't do that to a rock band. There's some sort of hidden gearsluts rule that rock drums have to sound like a drummer playing in a room.. don't try and hype it, don't add anything that isn't natural or if you do you don't know what you're doing.

I personally think Feldmann's drum sound is very unique and original. I can immediately tell if he did a record after the couple snare hits and cymbal crashes.
Hey i use samples on stuff i mix for other people all the time..usually blended pretty low though

I come from a completely different era..it used to be when I was a kid you could tell who was playing on a track instantly..Moon,Bonham,Watts,Kenny jones,Mitch Mitchell,Ginger Baker,etc..these records sounded magical to me.
So much of of stuff I hear on kroq,etc is so generic chopped,sampled,squashed,etc..you wouldn't know who was behind the kit or who recorded/mixed it if your life depended on it or even care for that matter.
I still think those old records still blow away 95% of what I hear on the "modern rock" radio stations today in terms of style and personality.
Just for fun,I was going back and forth between the new stuff[smashed to death] Rise Against,AFI,Cartel,Taking Back Sunday,Three days Grace,Red jumpsuit ap..etc and good old "Exile on Main Street" last night.
musical style nonwithstanding...sweet jesus.. it was really disturbing to see were things have gone production wise on todays rock records..i mean on the one hand you have something soulful..dynamic, timeless,deep,beautiful and 3 dimesional and on the other: completely disposable slammed 2-d sounding.
And yes I love well recorded drums in a room played by a human..no need for any hyping there..if it already sounds great..why kill it with the same generic samples and hard grid editing everyone else and their mother are using?!.
but that's just me..i'm an old fart right?heh
Old 8th October 2008
  #30
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
I can proudly say that I rarely feel the need to use samples when mixing drums I've recorded. When I do, it's because of either of the following:

a) Drummer will not use the drums(s) I ask him to use, that I know is right for the track.
b) Drummer doesn't know how to hit a drum and get a solid tone out of it. You'd be surprised how many "metal" drummers have this problem.
c) Somewhere along the line, the production took a turn, and the snare we originally picked doesn't sit in the track the way I'd like.

Otherwise, I find samples totally unnecessary, even to get that KROQ type of sound. I'm mixing a record right now in that style, and in some of the songs, I've had to use zero samples, yet it has that sound. (Except it sound good.)
Amen brother!!
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