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90s U67 on eBay... Condenser Microphones
Old 3rd October 2015
  #61
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voodoo4u's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
But it is not a black and white world - or doesn't have to be. The fact that GREAT records can be made with very minimal/inexpensive gear simply does not mean that "gear does not matter".

For example I have no doubt that the Police used what they thought was the best gear for the job (not necessarily the most expense). Would Ghost In the Machine have done as or nearly as well with sonics inferior to what they captured? Very possibly. But combining artistry with the best sonics available (engineer, performance space, engineer) is what most try to do. In your circumstance you did exactly that and made it work. Good job!

Subtleties do exist and they are important to some people. And to reiterate, the subtleties of the artist(s) contribute the most to any success. But any tool (whatever the price) that better captures that subtlety is simply a better tool.

Why argue anything else?
All right. I've calmed down a bit from yesterday and want to explain my point a little better. Sometimes when I see responses that clearly show that someone is obtuse and has completely misinterpreted what I've said, completely missed the point, my answers tend to get more blunt and direct to the point of being incorrect.

I agree, it's not black and white and yes, gear matters, to a point. Having good sounding, reliable, professional tools is important. But if you're serious about a career in music and recording, other things are more important.

If you're an amateur or hobbiest or simply like to dabble in recording like I think most people on this site have become, it really doesn't matter. Go ahead buy the best gear you can't afford. Have a good time. But if you aspire to a long career in this business, you would do well to get your priorities straight and in my life, I've found that the most important thing to career success and longevity is relationships. Second most important is skills and thirdly, you do need good tools, but... but you don't have to pay a fortune to get great tools.

Here's the real point of this thread. Is a Neumann U-esoteric microphone from 1962 serial # 12345 really worth twice as much in 2015 as it was in 2011? No. Does that mic sound twice as good as it did four years ago? No. So take your ego and pride out of the equation and focus on getting respected tools that will do the best job most reliably.

Really how many times has a new client walked into your studio as said to you, "I'm only here because you have this awesome old mic. I really don't care about your skills, my mixes could suck and I wouldn't care. I really don't care that you're a bit of a jerk, I just want to work with this awesome mic." Think about it and keep things in perspective.

And one more thing, for every over priced vintage mic that you think is so important to have, there's a another guy on the other end of that transaction that thinks the money is more important and he's marked up this mic and is making an obscene profit off of you and laughing all the way to the bank.
Old 5th October 2015
  #62
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo4u View Post
All right. I've calmed down a bit from yesterday and want to explain my point a little better. Sometimes when I see responses that clearly show that someone is obtuse and has completely misinterpreted what I've said, completely missed the point, my answers tend to get more blunt and direct to the point of being incorrect.

I agree, it's not black and white and yes, gear matters, to a point. Having good sounding, reliable, professional tools is important. But if you're serious about a career in music and recording, other things are more important.

If you're an amateur or hobbiest or simply like to dabble in recording like I think most people on this site have become, it really doesn't matter. Go ahead buy the best gear you can't afford. Have a good time. But if you aspire to a long career in this business, you would do well to get your priorities straight and in my life, I've found that the most important thing to career success and longevity is relationships. Second most important is skills and thirdly, you do need good tools, but... but you don't have to pay a fortune to get great tools.

Here's the real point of this thread. Is a Neumann U-esoteric microphone from 1962 serial # 12345 really worth twice as much in 2015 as it was in 2011? No. Does that mic sound twice as good as it did four years ago? No. So take your ego and pride out of the equation and focus on getting respected tools that will do the best job most reliably.

Really how many times has a new client walked into your studio as said to you, "I'm only here because you have this awesome old mic. I really don't care about your skills, my mixes could suck and I wouldn't care. I really don't care that you're a bit of a jerk, I just want to work with this awesome mic." Think about it and keep things in perspective.

And one more thing, for every over priced vintage mic that you think is so important to have, there's a another guy on the other end of that transaction that thinks the money is more important and he's marked up this mic and is making an obscene profit off of you and laughing all the way to the bank.
And once again, many things to agree with. Some valid points not made by you prior (relationships, etc.) re: careers. But don't I recall that you own a Tele 47 (purchased by client request) and a Neumann U67? As I pointed out before if you don't find some sort of advantage why keep the U67? You can make great recordings without them (I agree you can). And if your client wants a U47 and you buy one because it gets you business then maybe others find the same for a U67 and have more cash available then you. What's wrong with that?

After all you note (paraphrasing you above) that clients don't care about the make/model of mic. Except apparently your one client who needed a U47 which at least looks like one the real thing.

So again, I ask, particularly in the context of you keeping the U67 (that is by your judgement VASTLY over priced in the market), why is it worth it to you to keep it? To me this is the interesting part of your participation in the thread. You are claiming U67s are not worth it while at the same time making the decision every day to keep yours and in the same breath telling others they are not worth it. For your purposes (as I understand it) you can get their with eq. Illogical behavior vs. the argument you are making (IMO).

BTW - ALL markets work as you describe, with one person (the buyer) valuing an item more than you do (the seller).

And please note that I am not suggesting that people that don't have particular good reasons and resources commensurate go out and buy a U67/269 for $11k. But I've not found anything that does what they do, so I'll keep mine until I do or until I need the money.

I would say that your mileage varies, but apparently it does not. Every craftsman I know of every type takes pride and prefers to own and use whatever they consider to be the VERY best tool for the job (that they can afford).
Old 5th October 2015
  #63
Update. Got the mic and it's gorgeous. Have had a chance to put it through its paces. I own/have owned a lot of mics looking for "that sound". TLM-103, U87, Mojave MA-300, M-149, Flea 47, Sm7, Re20, AEA R84, Manley Ref Gold... I have tried them all. I am primarily a singer/songwriter and have been on a 5 year mission to find "the one". For me. I decided to try the vintage route.

This mic is quite simply the best sounding mic on my voice and acoustic guitar I have ever heard. I realize how subjective this whole thing is, but to me and for my ears...I found it! Full, balanced, not sibilant (a problem I have had with many mics) and just oozing with tube-y goodness. I want another one. lol

Running it though my Neve 1073lb. I will post some clips when I get a chance.

As for the debate on price...it is what it is. I paid nowhere near the ask for the price. I like that it's the 90s version because basically it's brand new. It will hold its value and appreciate like a good investment should. I will say that initial indications are it's worth every penny!
Old 6th October 2015
  #64
Lives for gear
 
Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehusseyband View Post
Update. Got the mic and it's gorgeous. Have had a chance to put it through its paces. I own/have owned a lot of mics looking for "that sound". TLM-103, U87, Mojave MA-300, M-149, Flea 47, Sm7, Re20, AEA R84, Manley Ref Gold... I have tried them all. I am primarily a singer/songwriter and have been on a 5 year mission to find "the one". For me. I decided to try the vintage route.

This mic is quite simply the best sounding mic on my voice and acoustic guitar I have ever heard. I realize how subjective this whole thing is, but to me and for my ears...I found it! Full, balanced, not sibilant (a problem I have had with many mics) and just oozing with tube-y goodness. I want another one. lol

Running it though my Neve 1073lb. I will post some clips when I get a chance.

As for the debate on price...it is what it is. I paid nowhere near the ask for the price. I like that it's the 90s version because basically it's brand new. It will hold its value and appreciate like a good investment should. I will say that initial indications are it's worth every penny!
Congratulations on finding what you were looking for. Enjoy; we can see you smiling from here!
Old 7th October 2015
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Congratulations on finding what you were looking for. Enjoy; we can see you smiling from here!
Thanks! Really enjoying the 67. Otherworldly!
Old 10th October 2015
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by natpub View Post
Im gonna guess B is the 67. Reason being that the sibilance is heavily rolled off, a fav feature of mine about the 67, which does it smoother and nicer than anything out there. That said, I guess C also controlled the sibilance nicely, but not quite as strongly as B. I don't know what the other 2 mics are, so I'm shooting in the dark here. A is definitely the brightest, so Im guessing that is not the 67. Something like the Telefunken CopperHead also defeats sibilance strongly, but is sooooo dark it's kinda over the top (no pun intended, lol!).

Honestly, to be fair you should tell us what the other two mics are, that would make the guessing more reasonable :-)
Copperhead too dark? Try an NOS Mullard tube in it.
Old 11th October 2015
  #67
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
11k for a 67 is insane.
And I have two.theyre good but no way 11-12k good.
I'd have David Bock build a brand new pair of custom u99's and still have leftover money for a really nice vacation.
Old 11th October 2015
  #68
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Vintageidiot's Avatar
Actually someone is trying to get 14999 for one, simply outrageous. The hype is out of control. But hey, if you want to be that guy, be that guy.....
Old 11th October 2015
  #69
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintageidiot View Post
Actually someone is trying to get 14999 for one, simply outrageous. The hype is out of control. But hey, if you want to be that guy, be that guy.....
Yeez
You know if some mook wants to pay 14k for one of my clean 67's I'd do it.
Old 11th October 2015
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
11k for a 67 is insane.
And I have two.theyre good but no way 11-12k good.
I'd have David Bock build a brand new pair of custom u99's and still have leftover money for a really nice vacation.
What do you say to the people who buy vintage guitars like vintage Strats for upwards of $80,000? I don't think $15,000 for a great condition U67 or M269C is too much. The M269C to me sounds even better than the U67, they are almost the same thing except the M269C has the Ac701 tube instead of EF86 tube.

Look at this listing for a 1995 Vintage Strat 90s U67 on eBay...1955 Fender Stratocaster Museum Piece 1954 1956 1957 1958 1959 Vintage Strat | eBay

The seller wants $79,000. When I see that price, I don't think 15K for a great vintage mic is too much.
Old 11th October 2015
  #71
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
What do you say to the people who buy vintage guitars like vintage Strats for upwards of $80,000? I don't think $15,000 for a great condition U67 or M269C is too much. The M269C to me sounds even better than the U67, they are almost the same thing except the M269C has the Ac701 tube instead of EF86 tube.

Look at this listing for a 1995 Vintage Strat 90s U67 on eBay...1955 Fender Stratocaster Museum Piece 1954 1956 1957 1958 1959 Vintage Strat | eBay

The seller wants $79,000. When I see that price, I don't think 15K for a great vintage mic is too much.
Id tell you to your face your outta your friggin mind.
I own a bunch of vintage Neumanns.bought for what I'd call semi reasonable prices.I got one 67 for 3k in '98 and thought that was high.
None of them are the holy grail.
I use my new Bocks, Gefells,Schoeps,AKG,Sennheisers etc as much or even more.
Hey it's your money.your a rich collector?You got a trust fund and you got the gearslutz gear worship itch?Knock yourself out.
Ill take your money
Old 11th October 2015
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Id tell you to your face your outta your friggin mind.
I own a bunch of vintage Neumanns.bought for what I'd call semi reasonable prices.I got one 67 for 3k in '98 and thought that was high.
None of them are the holy grail.
Hey it's your money.your a rich collector?You got a trust fund and you got the gearslutz gear worship itch?Knock yourself out.
Ill take your money
I see your point, but I do think a great vocal sound is more valuable than a great guitar tone. Guitar based music isn't exactly topping the Billboard charts anymore. But last time I checked, people were still singing, and still need a great vocal sound. If the top vintage mics, like the Klaus Heyne "Big 5" are a notch above the current clones, they will still be highly sought after.
Old 11th October 2015
  #73
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
I see your point, but I do think a great vocal sound is more valuable than a great guitar tone. Guitar based music isn't exactly topping the Billboard charts anymore. But last time I checked, people were still singing, and still need a great vocal sound. If the top vintage mics, like the Klaus Heyne "Big 5" are a notch above the current clones, they will still be highly sought after.
I use my custom Bock 407 waay more than my 67's on vocals man.
I'm telling you his custom u99 beats the 67's on so many vocals .
Guys are using affordable Lauten etc Mics on big hit records.
Sorry I don't worship at the altar of Klaus Heyne or any other so called "Mic Gurus"
Been there done that.same with Toby Foster, James Gangwer,Tony Merrill,Andreas Grosser etc etc
He's just another guy who mods Mics to me,he has his ideas,opinions and taste just like everyone else.
(You have NO IDEA how badly some of these guys sh*t talk each other behind their backs for being completely "inept" or "wrong".seriously,it's comical lol).
I used an 87 Klaus modded, sounded good but hated a 47 and 47fet he modded. .
Last time I checked people don't make much money recording music anymore.
Most guys I know with the big fancy mic collections have trust funds,rich spouses or made some money before the music industry went bust.
Livin the dream

Last edited by RoundBadge; 11th October 2015 at 06:43 AM..
Old 11th October 2015
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I use my custom Bock 407 waay more than my 67's on vocals man.
I'm telling you his custom u99 beats the 67's on so many vocals .
Sorry I don't worship at the altar of Klaus Heyne or any other so called "Mic Gurus"
Been there done that.same with Toby Foster, James Gangwer,Tony Merrill,Andreas Grosser etc etc
He's just another guy who mods Mics to me,he has his ideas,opinions and taste just like everyone else.
(You have no idea how badly some of these guys sh*t talk each other behind their backs for being "wrong" lol).
I used an 87 Klaus modded, sounded good but hated a 47 and 47fet he modded. .
Last time I checked people don't make much money recording music anymore.
Most guys I know with the big fancy mic collections have trust funds,rich spouses or made some money before the music industry went bust.
Livin the dream
I respect Bock's line of mics but still reach for the vintage ones first over any modern clones or wannabe mics. I find that the midrange is almost always smoother and more pleasing with a good working vintage condenser mic like a vintage U47. I'll also be at the opposite end of the spectrum than you on Klaus and the gurus like Andreas Grosser and Gunter Wagner. Those guys are great techs, have great ears, and are often the best advisors on what sounds good because they have the most experience and have heard more microphones than anyone. If you don't like your U67 as much as you should, you might consider getting an M269C, which is basically the same mic but with an AC701. It has a more open top end and a lot of users on GS like ThrillerFactor, love it, and often prefer it over the U67. Or have your 67 serviced. New caps, new transducer, or different tube, any of those can easily make a world of difference in mids and highs.

The 67's amplification section is a very complex microphone. Just take a look at the schematic http://danalexanderaudio.com/Micpics...7Schematic.jpg

With such a complex circuit, there's a lot than can be serviced on that mic.

Last edited by SharpKillerCable; 11th October 2015 at 07:50 AM..
Old 11th October 2015
  #75
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
I respect Bock's line of mics but still reach for the vintage ones first over any modern clones or wannabe mics. I find that the midrange is almost always smoother and more pleasing with a good working vintage condenser mic like a vintage U47. I'll also be at the opposite end of the spectrum than you on Klaus and the gurus like Andreas Grosser and Gunter Wagner. Those guys are great techs, have great ears, and are often the best advisors on what sounds good because they have the most experience and have heard more microphones than anyone. If you don't like your U67 as much as you should, you might consider getting an M269C, which is basically the same mic but with an AC701. It has a more open top end and a lot of users on GS like ThrillerFactor, love it. Or have the 67 serviced. New caps, new transducer, or different tube, any of those can easily make a world of difference in mids and highs.
I also have a beautiful sounding 47,two mint stereo(hand picked out of 6) matched by Andreas Grosser Km56's. I've used 269's,(also owned the rare U60).
Yeah they're nice I know the high end extension but I've also chosen other Mics over them for certain vocalists.
Trust me my 67's etc have been serviced by the very best and sound like they should.
Cheers
Old 11th October 2015
  #76
hey hunter, how goes it? toby's doing a pretty great mod on 67's now. i've given him a couple and they always sound pretty great and similar when i get them back. i've had a couple of bock mics and have an ifet, but definitely lean towards the vintage mics. they are expensive, but to me have better resale if you buy right. (11k wouldn't be buying right for me.) also good for taxes. love 67/269's.....have too many. one of the best "for everything" mic.

i agree there are a lot of new mics that get the job done, but vintage ones keep their value the best. lost too much money on new stuff.....just another opinion.
Old 11th October 2015
  #77
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by petemin View Post
hey hunter, how goes it? toby's doing a pretty great mod on 67's now. i've given him a couple and they always sound pretty great and similar when i get them back. i've had a couple of bock mics and have an ifet, but definitely lean towards the vintage mics. they are expensive, but to me have better resale if you buy right. (11k wouldn't be buying right for me.) also good for taxes. love 67/269's.....have too many. one of the best "for everything" mic.

i agree there are a lot of new mics that get the job done, but vintage ones keep their value the best. lost too much money on new stuff.....just another opinion.
Hey Pete!
Great man.
Yes Toby's done some mic work for me.
Don't want to derail the thread.I'll pm you the details.
Old 15th October 2015
  #78
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RedTuxedo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
What do you say to the people who buy vintage guitars like vintage Strats for upwards of $80,000? I don't think $15,000 for a great condition U67 or M269C is too much. The M269C to me sounds even better than the U67, they are almost the same thing except the M269C has the Ac701 tube instead of EF86 tube.

Look at this listing for a 1995 Vintage Strat 90s U67 on eBay...1955 Fender Stratocaster Museum Piece 1954 1956 1957 1958 1959 Vintage Strat | eBay

The seller wants $79,000. When I see that price, I don't think 15K for a great vintage mic is too much.
So one for $35,000 seems reasonable too...

90s U67 on eBay...RARE Vintage Neumann U67 Original Studio Condenser Microphone Telefunken U47 U87 615104070226 | eBay



We have a really great 67, and honestly wouldn't sell it for $15k, just because it's worth more to us to have it. We don't have a huge collection of mics as a mastering house, but having one really great vintage mic in our collection has helped us bring in some clients.
Old 15th October 2015
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTuxedo View Post
So one for $35,000 seems reasonable too...

90s U67 on eBay...RARE Vintage Neumann U67 Original Studio Condenser Microphone Telefunken U47 U87 615104070226 | eBay



We have a really great 67, and honestly wouldn't sell it for $15k, just because it's worth more to us to have it. We don't have a huge collection of mics as a mastering house, but having one really great vintage mic in our collection has helped us bring in some clients.
Might be the cleanest original U67 I've seen on Ebay. When you have something in original condition and it's that nice, all numbers get thrown out the window and it could seriously sell for any number the buyer is willing to spend.

Condition this nice is highly collectible. As you can see the close-up view, the capsule is still sealed from Neumann with its original "N" wax seal. Highly collectable

Last edited by SharpKillerCable; 15th October 2015 at 01:44 AM..
Old 15th October 2015
  #80
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Three or four years ago there was someone who had one in all original packaging. TRULY never used. I don't remember the price but it was not incredibly excessive for the time. Maybe $6000-7000.

No doubt it went to a collector not a user. Many eBay sellers are really just advertising and do not anticipate selling there.

But if the user gets $20K, then the buyer of the mic I mention above is one very happy person.
Old 15th October 2015
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Three or four years ago there was someone who had one in all original packaging. TRULY never used. I don't remember the price but it was not incredibly excessive for the time. Maybe $6000-7000.

No doubt it went to a collector not a user. Many eBay sellers are really just advertising and do not anticipate selling there.

But if the user gets $20K, then the buyer of the mic I mention above is one very happy person.
Upon further inspection of the pics, it looks like the Neumann logo has a large gash in it, but that could be restored. Other that that, I don't see any wear on the microphone that would suggest more usage than a test. It's getting harder and harder to find a U67 from the original 1960s run in this condition. 3 to 4 years ago was a different market. I wouldn't be surprised if this one could actually get 15k to 20k to right collector. Pieces like this in this condition simply do not exist anymore, and if they do, only a very small number of collectors have them.
Old 15th October 2015
  #82
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bigbone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
Upon further inspection of the pics, it looks like the Neumann logo has a large gash in it, but that could be restored. Other that that, I don't see any wear on the microphone that would suggest more usage than a test. It's getting harder and harder to find a U67 from the original 1960s run in this condition. 3 to 4 years ago was a different market. I wouldn't be surprised if this one could actually get 15k to 20k to right collector. Pieces like this in this condition simply do not exist anymore, and if they do, only a very small number of collectors have them.

You got to try the mic at this price range, there is no way you can see how the
mic will perform just by looking a a picture.
Old 15th October 2015
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbone View Post
You got to try the mic at this price range, there is no way you can see how the
mic will perform just by looking a a picture.
In my opinion, physical condition means a lot if you are not able to hear a mic before buying. Of the mics I have seen, good condition does, in most cases, directly correlate with sounding better, or at least have less problems than the same model microphone in poorer condition.
A mic in great condition makes it easier for a novice to buy without hearing it because simply put, there is a better chance it will show up sounding good. Are there exceptions to this general correlation? Of course, plenty. But in all likelyhood a better physical condition vintage microphone will take less work to get it to sound like should, if some work or restoration is necessary.

I don't really want to make a car analogy, but what would you rather buy? A used car with low mileage or a used vehicle with high mileage? Which is more likely to have more problems if you were not able to have it thoroughly inspected?

Last edited by SharpKillerCable; 15th October 2015 at 07:56 AM..
Old 15th October 2015
  #84
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syra's Avatar
Bypass the filters on your U67. It takes 10 minutes and it's completely reversible. To my ears it makes it a much better and versatile microphone.
Old 15th October 2015
  #85
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post
Bypass the filters on your U67. It takes 10 minutes and it's completely reversible. To my ears it makes it a much better and versatile microphone.
A good point that should be emphasized. I like both filtered and unfiltered for different reasons. As you suggest, unfiltered, depending on your aesthetic can indeed be more versatile. A pair of U67s/269s and you can do just about anything within acceptable (for me) limits.

A related point: The vast majority of U67 mods can be reversed quite easily as they almost always involve the filters. This excludes many (but not all) Stephan Paul modified U67s (which may or may not be a science project) or any other mods to original capsules (easily spotted). Very few techs would have taken on actually modifying the circuit of the U67 in any real way.

I only mention this because there has become quite a meme here about how much better un-modified U67s are than modified; when the vast majority of modifications are either filters only or other things that can be undone quite easily. Again this is apart from having an original capsule or reskin. Even if the mic doesn't have a great condition original capsule, and you adjust for the cost of a new capsule from Neumann (still as good as original I understand) the capsule is not a problem.

The point is to not be afraid of a 'modified' U67 if you can get some very good close-ups and pass them by a qualified tech who can tell you the 'level' of reversing the mods (if desired) and/or restoration. MUCH better if the tech can physically inspect the mic but that is less practical for many.

For example, given the option, I'll take my KH 'modified' U67s any day over 'original'. They are not modified in any way that can't be easily undone and really don't lose their '67 ness', but do have an additional quality that is very hard to describe in words. Extraordinary mics.

Although obviously related to the broader user market, prices for (supposedly) unused mics, primarily marketed to collectors is a somewhat different thing. Except that prices for 'collectors quality' items invariably drives up the price for 'lesser quality' usable tools.

At what point do the tools in our locker become worth too much to actually use (and therefore take the requisite risk of damage/maintenance)?
Old 16th October 2015
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable View Post
In my opinion, physical condition means a lot if you are not able to hear a mic before buying. Of the mics I have seen, good condition does, in most cases, directly correlate with sounding better, or at least have less problems than the same model microphone in poorer condition.
in my experience, this is not true. i have a bunch of 67/269's. most of the time i bring the mics to my tech who has a great mod for 67's. there are varying degrees to which the top and bottom can be opened. he used to open them all the way, but has since developed a mod most people like. when i get the mics back, they all sound pretty close and amazing. i rarely have problems the the mics after i have them done.
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