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Lexicon 480L still ruling as the best digital Reverb sound
Old 30th September 2015
  #481
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
I can get here dry guitar, lx480 and bricasti (just for fun) "samplers" tomorrow.
Please post a picture of your hand and paper note indicating temnov and todays date on the M7 in use for any files you post under the M7 banner.

As you know Bricasti has been very generous in working with folks to create some great IR libraries, but that is not what we are wanting to listen to in this context.

Thank you in advance.



-Casey
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Old 30th September 2015
  #482
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Please post a picture of your hand and paper note indicating temnov and todays date on the M7 in use for any files you post under the M7 banner.

As you know Bricasti has been very generous in working with folks to create some great IR libraries, but that is not what we are wanting to listen to in this context.

Thank you in advance.
"Samplers," in this case, is the term used by Midas for sound examples using the reverb in question. Not "samples" in terms of impulse responses.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #483
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You've posted One Hundred Thirteen (113) posts on this thread alone, with well over a hundred of them deriding and disrespecting others and their opinions. Did you REALLY think something like this wouldn't happen? At least you're consistent. This has got to be a GS record....
And yet we keep coming back.

This thread is the little scratch on the roof of your mouth that would heal if only you could stop tonguing it, but you can't.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #484
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm tempted to ask you to re-upload the files, since that would add context and credibility (or lack of) to the discussion and put things into context - since being uploaded once already puts things into the public domain.

However, much as I abhor his attitude, in the interest of impartiality we should respect Midas' decision to edit his original post to remove them.
It's probably best to let the files stay deleted. The files proved that Midas has (had?) no idea what "phase issues" meant. However, they also sounded bad*, and were therefore not a fair representation of either the 480L or the LX480.

* bad, in that they had horrible phase issues. The guitar playing was great.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #485
Gear Addict
 

Casey, if it comes to this it will be my pleasure! Waiting for version 3

I still hope Midas will do it right and post two examples.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #486
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
Casey, if it comes to this it will be my pleasure!
Thank you!



-Casey
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Old 30th September 2015
  #487
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
seen that you are the only pro here and by the way you are completely wrong about your veredict...as you are victim of your own narcissist thoughts...

and well you put it easy to make us laugh about your own post...


pass the page and post some interesting information related to the thread, people with such vulgar statements like yours are adding garbage to the threads..instead better off post something valuable or if not just go back to the sofa, get a beer and enjoy watching tv
..

cheers
Ok i am (for now these i can recall i was "pictured" by you but surely there are more of these)

- completely wrong
- victim of narcissist thoughts
- amateur with cheap soundcard
- i drink beer
- i am vulgar
- i never posted anything related to the thread
- i am only adding garbage to this thread

Ok i am all that in the light of your perception and by your logic this is probably a FACT:

Midas

Tell us why don't you want to post your dry file, your settings and your processed file with these settings ?

And why did you deleted your initial bad "samplers" ?

Can you asnswer at least one of the question?

Even if you are finding my question vulgar or whatever new irrational theory you make up now, even if i am worst person at this forum:

Why do you keep resisting to answer same question from other people? Are all of them vulgar or amateur or victims of narcissist thoughts?
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Old 30th September 2015
  #488
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GJ999x's Avatar
we have the world's reverb experts gathered here for free and Midas is somehow unable to post a sample with settings and the dry sample so we can experiment? That seems a shame!

Anyone else have a dry flamenco sample? I've only got a flamenco sample collection (short clips), will post one later if that helps but hopefully Midas or someone has something better. Flemenco guitar would make for a good reverb test i guess.
Old 30th September 2015
  #489
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Dan Eriksson's Avatar
Must confess this thread is my guilty pleasure atm. Reminds me of Walter and Diamond (made for techno baby) Dave threads.

Last edited by Dan Eriksson; 30th September 2015 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 30th September 2015
  #490
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GJ999x's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Eriksson View Post
Must confess this thread is my guilty pleasure atm. Reminds me of Walter an Diamond (made for techno baby) Dave threads.
I resisted posting in this thread for a long time, but just found myself googling "midas reverb opinion fact", takes you straight there .... even the google page displays the immortal words "... Well my opinion is just a fact..."...
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Old 30th September 2015
  #491
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comfortablynick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
we have the world's reverb experts gathered here for free and Midas is somehow unable to post a sample with settings and the dry sample so we can experiment? That seems a shame!
That's exactly what I was thinking! I really want to do some good comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
Anyone else have a dry flamenco sample? I've only got a flamenco sample collection (short clips), will post one later if that helps but hopefully Midas or someone has something better. Flemenco guitar would make for a good reverb test i guess.
That's one thing I've learned from this thread: flamenco does make a good reverb test! I do have the first dry "sampler" that Midas posted which is a very good and short flamenco recording. I've been using it for the past few days to play with the LX480 and some of my other favorite 'verbs (R2, VVV, TSAR) trying to see how close I could get to the 480L sound.

Should I (re)post it?

Nick
Old 30th September 2015
  #492
Lives for gear
 

lol i love how this thread alone has racked up about two thirds of the views of the entire current guest q&a forum!

anyway, i do agree that the times i've been able to compare diectly, digital hardware versus 'ported plugins', the hardware wins. this despite the fact that my daw converters are far superior to the hardware. just sayin'. party on!
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Old 30th September 2015
  #493
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
my question is about how many of you still considerer the 480L as the best ever digital Reverb sound?
I prefer the sound of Valhalla VintageVerb, Valhalla Room, and Bricasti M7.
Old 30th September 2015
  #494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
...just mix a whole song with plugins...like i said you´ll ending sounding like your neighbour and the neighbour of your neighbour...
News Flash:

Andrew-scheps-recently-declared-he-now-100-itb

Lex is great for that '90s sound. 'Verb has come a long way since then...M7 for the win.
Old 30th September 2015
  #495
Gear Addict
 

Here we go.

Casey, I forgot about the hand! I can do it again if you need a proof.

Here is a guitar recording from the current project. I don't have flamenco guitar but this one has enough highs.

One of the reverbs is LX480 Large Hall, with analog noise - see screenshot. Another one is Bricasti Large Hall from Halls ver.1 No changes to presets at all as they sound different anyway.

Analyzer shows level matching, yellow line is Bricasti response and orange is LX480. All around - 23.00 LUFS.

I'm not trying to prove what's better, both are great and depending on the song I'd use one or another.

I want Midas - if it is possible - to give us his samples or take my dry guitar and apply his 480L Large Hall the way Warp asked him.
Attached Thumbnails
Lexicon 480L still ruling as the best digital Reverb sound-forcasey.jpg   Lexicon 480L still ruling as the best digital Reverb sound-screenshot.jpg  
Attached Files

All GTRs.mp3 (4.31 MB, 1562 views)

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Old 30th September 2015
  #496
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
Ok i am (for now these i can recall i was "pictured" by you but surely there are more of these)

- completely wrong
- victim of narcissist thoughts
- amateur with cheap soundcard
- i drink beer
- i am vulgar
- i never posted anything related to the thread
- i am only adding garbage to this thread

Ok i am all that in the light of your perception and by your logic this is probably a FACT:

Midas

Tell us why don't you want to post your dry file, your settings and your processed file with these settings ?

And why did you deleted your initial bad "samplers" ?

Can you asnswer at least one of the question?

Even if you are finding my question vulgar or whatever new irrational theory you make up now, even if i am worst person at this forum:

Why do you keep resisting to answer same question from other people? Are all of them vulgar or amateur or victims of narcissist thoughts?
As you said yourself the reasons...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
In any way i wouldn't hope for it.

At first i was thinkling it's gonna be very interesting read but later we can only laugh and that's it. This is some sort of new age trolling i don't know better word. I was thinking that this kind of people where extinct but no they are still here. You know: "hey this is high end forum, i have high end gear therefore i am high end pro" - that sort of thing. I was in belief that this does not exist in 2015. Wrong...

And old age engineer ( you named me trolling) like you should have a little bit of education...the way you are i wouldn´t think about yourself working like us with a Flamenco gypsies ...with such Character you wouldn´t last a minute in the control room...( alive) get someone else with a 480L and compare that yourself...at that stage you should already know that any cheap outboard Reverb unit sounds better than any expensive plugin...

salut! and keep on rowing your boat!!
Old 30th September 2015
  #497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timesaver800W View Post
lol i love how this thread alone has racked up about two thirds of the views of the entire current guest q&a forum!

anyway, i do agree that the times i've been able to compare diectly, digital hardware versus 'ported plugins', the hardware wins. this despite the fact that my daw converters are far superior to the hardware. just sayin'. party on!

Thanks god...someone with a good hearing and common sense turned up!!

up mate!
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Old 30th September 2015
  #498
Gear Maniac
 

Blah blah blah.

Can't even provide the bare minimum to be taken seriously.

Put up or shut up.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #499
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortablynick View Post
That's exactly what I was thinking! I really want to do some good comparisons.


That's one thing I've learned from this thread: flamenco does make a good reverb test! I do have the first dry "sampler" that Midas posted which is a very good and short flamenco recording. I've been using it for the past few days to play with the LX480 and some of my other favorite 'verbs (R2, VVV, TSAR) trying to see how close I could get to the 480L sound.

Should I (re)post it?

Nick

well that was some reasonable thought ..you should work hard on it though! if you are trying to get close to the Lexicon 480L using just any sort of plugin...
Old 30th September 2015
  #500
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
---you should already know that any cheap outboard Reverb unit sounds better than any expensive plugin… ---

I'm curious Mr. Midas. Since you are no doubt aware that hardware digital reverbs are simply software algorithms running on digital DSP chips, how do you explain the sonic differences when certain plugins duplicate the exact same algorithm?

Is it the 'sound' of the different DSP chip, performing the exact same math, that you think accounts for the sonic 'superiority' of hardware?

And if even a cheap outboard reverb sounds better than an expensive plugin, then I guess you're not saying it's about high-quality converters or analog 'warmth' or something…

Just really wondering what sort of explanation you would give for the inherent 'superiority' of hardware over software. I can tell you're not all that fond of logic.. but you must have SOME kind of theory to explain your firmly held, quasi-religious faith in digital hardware.

Or is it something in the Spanish water?
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Old 30th September 2015
  #501
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
I'm curious Mr. Midas. Since you are no doubt aware that hardware digital reverbs are simply software algorithms running on digital DSP chips, how do you explain the sonic differences when certain plugins duplicate the exact same algorithm?

Is it the 'sound' of the different DSP chip, performing the exact same math, that you think accounts for the sonic 'superiority' of hardware?

And if even a cheap outboard reverb sounds better than an expensive plugin, then I guess you're not saying it's about high-quality converters or analog 'warmth' or something…

Just really wondering what sort of explanation you would give for the inherent 'superiority' of hardware over software. I can tell you're not all that fond of logic.. but you must have SOME kind of theory to explain your firmly held, quasi-religious faith in digital hardware.

Or is it something in the Spanish water?

<snip - you're starting to cross the line now>

Go back to the posts and read some of them ...you´ll find some of your answers there..

obviously that there are not only the algorithms that make an outboard reverb unit to be sonically better than a plugin!! if not logically a plugin could equally sound as good as the ouboard unit...

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 1st October 2015 at 12:20 AM..
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Old 30th September 2015
  #502
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timtoonz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
Bfff such statements at that stage!! You must be one of the puppets that is on your pictue profile aren´t you?

Yup, I'm the one on the far left!

Thanks for your answer M. Stay classy and please, don't ever change. I love your work.

Last edited by timtoonz; 30th September 2015 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 30th September 2015
  #503
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
obviously that there are not only the algorithms that make an outboard reverb unit to be sonically better than a plugin!! if not logically a plugin could equally sound as good as the ouboard unit...
You conveniently ignore the fact that earlier in the thread you guessed wrong on Relab's AB clips, which translates that you chose the plugin 480 over the hardware. You have absolutely zero credibility at this point and you are just making **** up as you go along..
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Old 30th September 2015
  #504
Gear Maniac
 
Rachel Victoria's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
Here we go.

Casey, I forgot about the hand! I can do it again if you need a proof.

Here is a guitar recording from the current project. I don't have flamenco guitar but this one has enough highs.

One of the reverbs is LX480 Large Hall, with analog noise - see screenshot. Another one is Bricasti Large Hall from Halls ver.1 No changes to presets at all as they sound different anyway.

Analyzer shows level matching, yellow line is Bricasti response and orange is LX480. All around - 23.00 LUFS.

I'm not trying to prove what's better, both are great and depending on the song I'd use one or another.

I want Midas - if it is possible - to give us his samples or take my dry guitar and apply his 480L Large Hall the way Warp asked him.
I am 99% sure that the first sample after the dry guitar is the plugin, and the next one is the Bricasti. They are both excellent sounding reverbs.
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Old 30th September 2015
  #505
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
Here we go.

Casey, I forgot about the hand! I can do it again if you need a proof.

Here is a guitar recording from the current project. I don't have flamenco guitar but this one has enough highs.

One of the reverbs is LX480 Large Hall, with analog noise - see screenshot. Another one is Bricasti Large Hall from Halls ver.1 No changes to presets at all as they sound different anyway.

Analyzer shows level matching, yellow line is Bricasti response and orange is LX480. All around - 23.00 LUFS.

I'm not trying to prove what's better, both are great and depending on the song I'd use one or another.

I want Midas - if it is possible - to give us his samples or take my dry guitar and apply his 480L Large Hall the way Warp asked him.
it is ovbious that the second take is the one with the Bricasti and the 3 the one with the Relab bug i meant Plug...

wasn´t it?
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Old 30th September 2015
  #506
Gear Maniac
 
Rachel Victoria's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
it is ovbious that the second take is the one with the Bricasti and the 3 the one with the Relab bug i meant Plug...

wasn´t it?
I strongly think, and in this case hope, you are wrong. I think it goes the other way round 1) Dry 2) Relab Plugin 3) Bricasti.
Also, even if you don't like a certain plugin, it's very disrespectful to jokingly call any high quality plugin a "bug" do you have any idea how many hours it takes to write plugins of this quality?
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Old 30th September 2015
  #507
Lives for gear
 
comfortablynick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
obviously that there are not only the algorithms that make an outboard reverb unit to be sonically better than a plugin!! if not logically a plugin could equally sound as good as the ouboard unit...
I do agree with the bolded part of your statement.

The statement as a whole just shows how insecure you are about the idea of anyone being able to do in a computer the same thing that your fancy "professional" rack-mounted box does.

Secondly, if not the algorithms, what is left? The A/D/A conversion is all I can think of. Quantization noise and poor conversion are generally considered to be undesirable, but I can accept that some people prefer noise and distortion added to their reverb. I know Relab has modeled this for the 480L but I guess one could try adding a bitcrusher and/or a noise plugin after the 'verb on a send to "enhance" the effect...

I wonder which popular HW reverb was the last one to have converters that are bad enough to be audible in a mix. I think it would be fun to do a blind comparison of a real 480L analog vs. digital as well as comparisons with other reverbs. Converter noise is usually comparatively low in the signal, and I generally have reverbs at -12 dBFS maximum. It seems unlikely to make a huge difference.

Who knows...maybe a test will prove me wrong. My personal opinion is that it's still more likely that confirmation bias is to blame than to assume Lexicon used such poor converters that it makes the dramatic differences that are claimed. But I know there's no way to know unless all other variables are isolated (something we've been singularly unable to do on this thread due to Midas' refusal to post the needed files).

Either way, if the signal stays in the digital domain there's no reason to believe that an algorithm running OTB vs ITB would have one iota of a difference.

Nick
Old 30th September 2015
  #508
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
Here we go.

Casey, I forgot about the hand! I can do it again if you need a proof.

Here is a guitar recording from the current project. I don't have flamenco guitar but this one has enough highs.

One of the reverbs is LX480 Large Hall, with analog noise - see screenshot. Another one is Bricasti Large Hall from Halls ver.1 No changes to presets at all as they sound different anyway.

Analyzer shows level matching, yellow line is Bricasti response and orange is LX480. All around - 23.00 LUFS.

I'm not trying to prove what's better, both are great and depending on the song I'd use one or another.

I want Midas - if it is possible - to give us his samples or take my dry guitar and apply his 480L Large Hall the way Warp asked him.

And i was complaining about Flaménco guitars reverbs abusing...you should dial back the wet/reverb time parameter on that acoustic guitar...it seems that you are playing in a large metro Tunnel.. the bricasti sounds far better than the relab 480LX fore sure... but nothing " special" on its sound just something "spacial"...just a reverb..lacking the 224L/ 480L characters...even though i´ll get the bricasti any day vs any current high end plugin on the market
Old 30th September 2015
  #509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel Victoria View Post
I strongly think, and in this case hope, you are wrong. I think it goes the other way round 1) Dry 2) Relab Plugin 3) Bricasti.
Also, even if you don't like a certain plugin, it's very disrespectful to jokingly call any high quality plugin a "bug" do you have any idea how many hours it takes to write plugins of this quality?

the take 2 is more wet than the 3rd anyway...so at least wet parameter should be equally adjusted but that is what it sounds to my ears anyway... i think that you were wrong too....as before you also did chose the 2 as the Bricasti...

1- Dry
2- Bricasti
3-Plugin
Old 30th September 2015
  #510
Gear Maniac
 
Rachel Victoria's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
Now let´s put you on the game....and invite those who talked so great about the quality of the high end plugin called RELAB 480L to compare it with one of the "cheapests" and most simplest plugins that comes with a native logic the one called aVerb

So it will be like Relab 480Lx VS Logic aVerb

here i just uploaded 2 guitar samplers, 30% wet and same reverb time...no changes to presets at all as they sound different anyway .. one of them is the Relab 480LX and the other one is the simplest reverb plugin that comes out with Logic called aVerb....as you should recognize the superiority from your acclaimed Relab Plugin to be as good as the Lexicon 480L...otherwise you better dedicate to play pachisi.. and shut the F**k Up forever

tic, tac, tic, tac, tic, tac, tic, tac, tic, tac
This is a pointless exercise. Comparing an Orange with and Orange tells you absolutely nothing about the relationship between an Apple and an Orange.
...This thread is supposed to be about the Lexicon Hardware Reverb?
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