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Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?
Old 9th July 2015
  #1
Gear Head
 

Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?

Hi GS,

Essentially not a question but rather a request for a sample of this gear.
I'm familiar with alot of old electronica tracks from way back.
Some of which possess a certain magic which for years I've wondered "what makes that sound".

Now I think i've guessed it (or close); the PCM60 by Lexicon.

I've heard the 70/80 on youtube but theres not one good reference for the 60 online.
So, If anyone out there owns this beast I'm asking if they could possibly upload a quick sample on/for the forum?

There is one sample/reference on YT but the dry signal the dude uses to demonstrate it doesn't do it justice. See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymP81CtMU54

I know it's old but i'm curious about this.
Thanks in advance

Gs
Old 9th July 2015
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
That video is of a mod. What type of things are you wanting to run through the PCM 60? Its a great and super simple box. PM me and remind me about this and I can get a sample or two done in the next couple of days.
Old 9th July 2015
  #3
Lives for gear
 
twentyhertz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Its a great and super simple box.
what he said
Old 9th July 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giro1991 View Post
Hi GS,

Essentially not a question but rather a request for a sample of this gear.
I'm familiar with alot of old electronica tracks from way back.
Some of which possess a certain magic which for years I've wondered "what makes that sound".

Now I think i've guessed it (or close); the PCM60 by Lexicon.

I've heard the 70/80 on youtube but theres not one good reference for the 60 online.
So, If anyone out there owns this beast I'm asking if they could possibly upload a quick sample on/for the forum?

There is one sample/reference on YT but the dry signal the dude uses to demonstrate it doesn't do it justice. See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymP81CtMU54

I know it's old but i'm curious about this.
Thanks in advance

Gs
its a vibe reverb.... It's a dirty little sounding box. Easy to use and is good to give an edge to tracks
Old 9th July 2015
  #5
Gear Head
 

Thanks for the feedback!

Hi Drum sound, mainly synths yeah.
I will upload the track which I absolutely love from which I suspect uses it...

cheerio for now
Old 9th July 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Duke Murdock's Avatar
How is the viability of these units these days? Any ticking time bombs of irreparable parts? I've been wanting one, but I'm not sure I want to spend $400 plus on one.
Old 9th July 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Phil Cibley's Avatar
 

If you have a convolution reverb plugin, you can try downloading
impulses from the web and check out the sounds with your own
source material.
Old 9th July 2015
  #8
Gear Addict
we arent talking high-end here - aren't we
Old 9th July 2015
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Absolutely not!
Old 10th July 2015
  #10
Gear Nut
 

PCM60 room impulses

PCM60 room impulses.

PM me if you want impulses of PCM60 Room or Inverse. I don't use the Plate.

Last edited by Andy Le Vien; 10th July 2015 at 12:14 AM.. Reason: upload not working
Old 10th July 2015
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER View Post
we arent talking high-end here - aren't we
At one point it was. I still think the PCM60 is a great box. It crushes the 'verbs that come with Pro Tools. HARD.
Old 16th July 2015
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Here is a requested PCM60 guitar sample. The clip starts dry then the Plate set at Size 2 and Reverb Time 2, then dry again then Room, Size 2 Time 2. Then more dry then big longs chords, First Plate Size Reverb Time 4, dry, the Room Size 4 Reverb Time 4.


I think this gives a good idea of the sound of the unit. There are more times, plus the bass and treble settings.
Attached Files

PCM60 samlles _02.mp3 (3.43 MB, 9609 views)

Old 16th July 2015
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Duke Murdock's Avatar
Thanks for the upload. I liked it on the big chords better, it really masked the tone on the palm mutes. Given the lack of a pre-delay what sources do you find it works best on?
Old 16th July 2015
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Murdock View Post
Thanks for the upload. I liked it on the big chords better, it really masked the tone on the palm mutes. Given the lack of a pre-delay what sources do you find it works best on?
The size control works like predelay, hell it may be predelay. Someone from the old days at Lexicon would have to answer that. I've used it on just about everything over the years. On the song I pulled that guitar part from, I'm actually using it on the vocal. It can be really great on drums, and various guitars, and keyboards. It's a great, simple, repeatable box.
Old 16th July 2015
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
At one point it was. I still think the PCM60 is a great box. It crushes the 'verbs that come with Pro Tools. HARD.
THE BEST Plate Drum Sub Group Reverb for under $400 Bucks, my revised understanding now is that these 2 Reverb Algo's came after the 224-XL Moved from the White Steel LARC to the Plastic 224-XL LARC that included more Algo's and the ability to have NVRAM and Parameter recall which was around 4.1x Software version. Just as the SP2016 could then make different sounds via EEPROM Changes, so was the idea here on the PCM-60! Later a Room & Inverse EEPROM became available, then the unit was turned into the PCM-70!

If you look at the Front/Back of early PCM-60/70 Cases it's all their, and on the main Circuit board as well! I would only ever purchase one from SINBIN....by asking the seller if the unit either comes with a 14 day warranty or can be returned, if there is no option of this it's most likely Noise ridden with busted filters, caps and resistors blown etc. Simple unit to fix.....though that's another Thread!

Just Perfect for Drums and Percussion
Old 12th September 2015
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

PCM60 here. For years.
No plugin near to the PCM60 or PCM70.

I use the PCM60 for instruments. Every instruments have added the PCM60 reverb.
The voice is PCM70.

Two demos. One flamenco-rumba-salsaton and the other rock.
There is a Play button, on the left side of the tittle under the picture.

https://play.google.com/store/music/...w2xrytheugle3e

https://play.google.com/store/music/...rkghdlx3lfpz5e
Old 13th September 2015
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Geetarpicker's Avatar
 

I really love my PCM60, being my only hardware reverb. That said I have also had two other 60s that were broken and the bad components were proprietary Lexicon ICs that are no longer available. Still these units in operating condition are still quite affordable, but they do contain some parts that are made of unobtainium.
Old 13th September 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Early pcm-60 product adverts

Think of the 224XL Algo's in there basic form, and Voila........The PCM-60! At one point in 1985 for 8 months apart from an RMX-16, SP2016, 224XL, Rev-1 and Quantec, the PCM-60 was the a Big Gun until it was eaten up for the PCM-70!


Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?-pcm-60-1985-two.jpg







Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?-pcm-60-1985-mk1.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?-pcm-60-1985-mk1.jpg   Anyone own Lexicon PCM 60?-pcm-60-1985-two.jpg  

Last edited by TheLastByte; 13th September 2015 at 05:51 PM..
Old 13th September 2015
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geetarpicker View Post
I really love my PCM60, being my only hardware reverb. That said I have also had two other 60s that were broken and the bad components were proprietary Lexicon ICs that are no longer available. Still these units in operating condition are still quite affordable, but they do contain some parts that are made of unobtainium.
Yeah.......That can be a real eBay problem, you know the saga, you're looking to buy a PCM-60, get one, it's got Noisy Op-Amps, get's sold onwards, and sold again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, until it's either fixed or out of ebay circulation, at least prices are back to lowish....they shot up to $600 plus at one time in 2013 -

To where the PCM-42 Craziness is now....I mean $1200.00 for a PCM-42? That's truly out there, and if someone told me "drop on by....check this out" and showed me the Studios newly acquired $1200.00 buck PCM-42, with 2 second MEO Expansion? I think I'd just check 1st to see if the Opto Isolator was bust before laughing my ass off!

Regards
TheLastByte

Last edited by TheLastByte; 13th September 2015 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: ipad
Old 13th September 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodicca View Post
PCM60 here. For years.
No plugin near to the PCM60 or PCM70.
Sadly I bet some Plug In designer will try a PCM-60/70 Replica........?
Lordy, Lordy me!
Old 14th September 2015
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

In my experience.
I have had hardware and plugins. Both, the same.
Api Eqs, 1176 compressors, Aphex, Eventide, guitar amps...
Never ever the plugins are near to the real thing.
There are good plugins, but they are something a lot different to the hardware that they emulate.

You get the same picture and controls in your screen, and more. But the sound is other.

There are monitors, interfaces, converters, etc. that make you listen the same one and other mic, one and other effect, one and other compressor, reverb, etc. But if you can listen with a good system, a PCM60 or a PCM70 and the best reverb plugin is like day and night, like everything or nothing.
For example I don't understand the PCM Lexicon native plugin, because it doesn't sound near to the Lexicon reverbs I have had or I have.

If you want a car, you buy that car. You don't buy an arcade software simulating that car. Is not the same.
With the arcade software you can sit, grab the steering wheel, you can to see in the screen something like what you can see when you drive. But nothing like if you are driving that car.

It is enough for what you do ?
Then perfect. Don't worry about it.
Old 14th September 2015
  #22
Lives for gear
 

good points. even the alleged 'identical' algorithms of some plugins and hardware doesn't really sound the same, interfaced digitally. perhaps they're not 'identical' after all...?
Old 14th September 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

If you're looking for a somewhat grainy, dark reverb that screams 80's LEXICON, this it it! It's a cool box for vibe, and I've mostly used it on drums. If it's too exposed it can sound VERY 80's (not good or bad, just very signature). If it's tucked in it can add a dimension. It definitely sounds unique next to modern verbs and plugins. Not a go to box for me, but good for the right occasion.
Old 14th September 2015
  #24
Lives for gear
 
axisdreamer's Avatar
the room reverbs on the pcm60 are great for drums, percussions...

I had one for years but then sold it when it started getting noisy..

I remember once in my old studio I had a huge room and I set up one mic and then used the pcm60 for the other ch so I had stereo reverb between these two..The real room mic and the pcm60 sounded so close that I couldn't hear a difference.. I was able to match the pcm60 settings to fit the real room..


I think the old Lexicon model 200 sounds very much like the pcm60 too...
Old 14th September 2015
  #25
I used a PCM60 for many years!
It was nice, I liked the room too and also the plate, it sounded artificial but pleasant.

Saddly one day it stopped working, there was no sound at all, send it for service and was told it was unrepairable.

Same thing as one of my PrimeTimes.
Old 15th September 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodicca View Post
In my experience.
I have had hardware and plugins. Both, the same.
Api Eqs, 1176 compressors, Aphex, Eventide, guitar amps...
Never ever the plugins are near to the real thing.
There are good plugins, but they are something a lot different to the hardware that they emulate.

You get the same picture and controls in your screen, and more. But the sound is other.

There are monitors, interfaces, converters, etc. that make you listen the same one and other mic, one and other effect, one and other compressor, reverb, etc. But if you can listen with a good system, a PCM60 or a PCM70 and the best reverb plugin is like day and night, like everything or nothing.
For example I don't understand the PCM Lexicon native plugin, because it doesn't sound near to the Lexicon reverbs I have had or I have.

If you want a car, you buy that car. You don't buy an arcade software simulating that car. Is not the same.
With the arcade software you can sit, grab the steering wheel, you can to see in the screen something like what you can see when you drive. But nothing like if you are driving that car.

It is enough for what you do ?
Then perfect. Don't worry about it.

Night and day, night and day how? Btw what plugins are you using? I have a lot of hardware and software and both are great tools.

I might agree with you to a point regarding certain analog plugins because they are digital recreations of analog processes. I have hardware versions of the 1176 LA2a and Manley VariMu and also the UAD versions and while I love the hardware, the UAD versions do a credible job of replicating this analog hardware and are excellent tools. perfect no but very useful just like there analog counterparts. Having 20k worth of monitoring and a treated room allows be to listen deep into the track to clearly hear the differences and the UAD does a good job considering its a digital emulation.

On the other hand digital is digital so I don't see how your analogy of a virtual vs real car makes any sense. The PCM60 and 70 are old digital reverbs, I had them an 80 and 90 too sold them years ago never looked back. The 60 and 70 do have character and the tile room preset on the 70 and prime blue on the 80 were two of my favorite presets years ago but both of those reverbs are easily eclipsed by new reverb algorithms whether those algorithms exist inside a dedicated hardware computer i.e. the Bricasti, PCM92 etc or exist inside a general computer i.e.: UAD 224, LX480, PCM Native bundle. Yes the Native bundle doesn't sound like the PCM60 or 70 and it wasn't meant too.

Last edited by Palermo; 15th September 2015 at 03:47 AM..
Old 15th September 2015
  #27
Lives for gear
 

I can only say that Algorithmically All Digital Algo's can....be recreated, though not many have had success creating the actual Design of the Algo's and the Box that housed them. To that degree Reverb/FX plug in's come under serious scrutiny, and many nit pick and troll over the minutia these Plug In's don't have or MOJO to be exact. And while I feel a 60Hz Noise switch on an 1176 Plug In does it No Favours, that's the kind of add extra dirt plug in mentality that exists. Real Grade Plug In's would cost more and/or near the Hardware and this makes then unfeasible, though just as I've heard great new Eq's and Comp's in Plugs, so have I in Hardware. I don' feel it's either or.......I think t's use what's best of both worlds and take it all in! Just don't buy anything with iLocks etc.
Worst Software stuff up's ever made!
Old 15th September 2015
  #28
Used a pcm60 for a long time and I preferred it to any reverb plug I had 9/10 times. Added a lot of depth and gave an extra layer behind the sound. Part of this could be due to some of the funkiness that is added due to hiss and noise that creates depth like a console. Who knows. I liked it. If it hadn't gotten noisy I wouldn't have gotten rid of it
Old 15th September 2015
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

Yes, each day the plugins are better. With dedicated hardware better than native-CPU versions. I had a pair of UAD and I liked them more than the other software. The dedicated DSP is a good advance.

I think the best is get the best of both worlds, but each thing is each thing.
The problem are the emulations.
You have done a good compressor. A very good software. Perfect. But don't say it is the real thing.

Each day the new versions are better, and now, this time, like the original.
12 years ago:

You have here the 1176 in a plugin. You have 20 1176 in a project!!! Free!!!!
Ohhhhh.
Ver1.01 This is better. Sorry.
Ver 1.04 This is more 1176 than the others.
Ver 2.05 This is the real 1176. Now we get it.
Ver 3.07 This is the best 1176!!!!
Ver 4537.031 this is better than the 1176!!!!
...
Year 2025 Ver 7,436,532 This is the authentic 1176!!!! Now we get it !!!!!
...
Year 2315 Ver 234,232,335,412 This sound the same identical to a 1176, but we have not a 1176 to compare it.

Is this a joke?

There are a lot of good plugins with compressors, eqs, etc. Very very good.
The mistake, I think, is to believe that they sound like the real thing.

In this case, the PCM60 and PCM70 have something special. Noise, distortion, harmonics. They are dense. They have mojo. I don't know. I have bought 3 PCM60. I sell it, ... and I miss it.
Old 17th September 2015
  #30
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I think the comparison of plug in vs box reverb has a lot to do with the analog stages of those old boxes. AND the conversion on those boxes. It isn't ONLY the algorithm that creates the sound.
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