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New 3 way monitors or get sub for existing 2 ways…or? Studio Monitors
Old 16th June 2015
  #1
New 3 way monitors or get sub for existing 2 ways…or?

Hi everyone.

After going through as many relevant threads as I could I thought that I would post what’s left of my question(s).

Firstly I should say that I write library cues for a stock library. I’ve been able to get by with my current setup for quiet a few years now but I’m finding it more and more frustrating working in the manor described below. I’m looking to speed up my assessment process of mixing.

Currently I have original Event 20/20’s powered with a Bryston 3B ST. I’ve alway had issues with the bottom end but laboured through by verifying mixes on different speakers then remixing, verify, remix, repeat. Eventually I arrive at mix that doesn’t make me angry and I call it a day. I’d like to shorten the duration of this process. I’ve tried adding a sub before but my 2nd bedroom studio wasn’t treated so I never liked the results. I’m treating my room now but still find bottom end lacking. The Events have frequency response of: 50Hz - 20kHz, +/-3dB, Ref. 500Hz (which might explain things a bit).

The two options I’ve been thinking of are:

1) Get a KRK sub to add to my existing monitors. KRK 10s and 12s come up fairly regularly used so this would be the least expensive option. One thing I like about a sub is the bypass switch for late night work. But is this really important? I don’t mix very loud, around 75db in near field position, so I don’t know if this is still going to produce wall penetrating bass at this level. I would have the sub set up as to be a natural extension from where ever the 20/20s fade away; not as a bass heavy set up.

1b) An in-between solution might be a pair of Neumann Kh120s with a KRK sub. These are available used and I could get this package for under $1500 cdn. Would this be “mostly” equivalent to KH 310s (for less than half the price) or completely different and closer to my original set up …but better?

2) Replace the Events/Bryston with a 3 way system. The three candidates that I’ve been looking into are Neumann KH310, Adam A77X and the Focal Twin6. To be honest, I’ve been favouring the Neumann’s as they are almost the same size as my Events but go down to 34Hz and apparently have a very flat frequency response. My thinking is - if there are frequency issues then my room is to blame - not the Neumann’s . The A77x go down to 38Hz, Twin6 goes down to 40hz.

From the listening that I have done, the Neumann’s seem very smooth and the Twin6 surprised me by how seemingly bright they were on certain material. That material was my own ‘too bright” mix so they made no bones about how overly bright that track was. I also found that I could hear more hiss from the twins than the Neumann. I don’t know if this is self noise or that the twins are revealing noise in the stores demo set up. I’m considering the A77x also as the are the most affordable of the three but I haven’t had a chance to demo them.

I have tried to find the equivalent of these monitors in passive versions but anything with the same frequency range seems to cost much more.

Any advice (creative or cautionary) is greatly welcome.

Thanks,

Mitch
Old 17th June 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 

IF KH310 is really an option, that's probably the direction I'd be leaning in.
Old 18th June 2015
  #3
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If the Kh310 are an option, you should maybe also look into the Amphion One15 (w/ an Amp100).. Smaller monitors yes but VERY honest and revealing.
Old 18th June 2015
  #4
I would stay witg tge monitors I know, and add a sub, of course only if you're happy with them
Old 18th June 2015
  #5
I've been reading quite a lot recently about the Amphion but wouldn't I still need a sub with those (One15's)? There is only one reseller in Canada as far as I've been able to find and they're quite a distance away (I'm in Toronto). In canada the Amphion One18 goes for about $1875 each (One15=$1250) which can be in same area as the KH310s if there's a deal. I'll contact the retailer and see if I can demo a pair. The 310's I can get have a return policy so I could possibly do a comparison.

Thinking in a passive vein, are there any older but awesome passive monitors that I should consider? Currently there is a pair of Westlake Audio BBSM-6 available. From what I've read they sound great but are bass light (Frequency Response ( +/- 3dB ) 60Hz-20kHz. A sub could solve.
Old 18th June 2015
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypemusic View Post
I've been reading quite a lot recently about the Amphion but wouldn't I still need a sub with those (One15's)? There is only one reseller in Canada as far as I've been able to find and they're quite a distance away (I'm in Toronto). In canada the Amphion One18 goes for about $1875 each (One15=$1250) which can be in same area as the KH310s if there's a deal. I'll contact the retailer and see if I can demo a pair. The 310's I can get have a return policy so I could possibly do a comparison.

Thinking in a passive vein, are there any older but awesome passive monitors that I should consider? Currently there is a pair of Westlake Audio BBSM-6 available. From what I've read they sound great but are bass light (Frequency Response ( +/- 3dB ) 60Hz-20kHz. A sub could solve.
The Amphions wont give you the oomph the kh310 will but they are more accurate and still present you with the bass information you need, it depends what you are looking for.

PS btw, I do not work nor am I endorsed at all by Amphion..

You should contact Dave Bryce (Bryce on here) to at least test them out
Old 18th June 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Never used or heard the Amphions but all the hype reminds me of the same thing I hear ever year when some new "revolutionary" monitor pops up that allows you to "actually hear what you're mixing" and "translate perfectly"

These seem like the current GS thing, just like the Adam A7X, then Focal Twins, then those Barefoots, followed by the the Unity Rock/Boulder etc. Don't forget the brief period when coaxial was the end all be all!
Old 19th June 2015
  #8
I'm trying to arrange some free time so I can demo the Neumann's at home. There are two pairs available; one pair are used and the other are store demos so, at least with the used pair, there is no break in time.

I contacted the Canadian Amphion distributor and they currently only sell direct. They're coming to Toronto soon for a presentation. I'll probably check them out when they come but for now I like the idea of an actual store I've dealt with for years and a product that isn't so esoteric that you're not sure exactly what you're getting into and, if need be, isn't hard to sell (Guild Doyle Dykes anyone?)

I'll take some REW measurements and compare them to my Event measurements but really it'll come down to what I hear.
Old 19th June 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypemusic View Post
I'm trying to arrange some free time so I can demo the Neumann's at home. There are two pairs available; one pair are used and the other are store demos so, at least with the used pair, there is no break in time.

I contacted the Canadian Amphion distributor and they currently only sell direct. They're coming to Toronto soon for a presentation. I'll probably check them out when they come but for now I like the idea of an actual store I've dealt with for years and a product that isn't so esoteric that you're not sure exactly what you're getting into and, if need be, isn't hard to sell (Guild Doyle Dykes anyone?)

I'll take some REW measurements and compare them to my Event measurements but really it'll come down to what I hear.
If youre already using Events, why not just step up to the Opals? I have a pair of Opals and I LOVE them, tested them against the kh310, Focal Twin, Atc scm20 and genelec 8040/8050 and IMO the Event Opals were the clear winner.. They really do perform amazingly well... Not quite as well as Amphions (no im not affiliated in any way) but AMAZING nonetheless

http://www.eventelectronics.com/down...pal_review.pdf
Old 21st June 2015
  #10
I've tried to look at the Opals but, like Amphion, they are rare as hen's teeth in Toronto, at least. Where I bought my Events (Steve's Music) doesn't carry the line any more. There is one place that does have them and I'll have to contact them to see if I can demo them. The Opal price is the same as used Neumann's so I'd be willing to check them out. I've only read rave reviews about them.
@ LuXx - Since you've shot them out, what is the difference between the Kh310 and Opals? I find that when I audition monitors that are reputed to be "Clear or detailed" I find those monitors to be be quite bright sounding (Focal Twin6 come to mind). What made them a clear winner for you?

Last edited by archetypemusic; 21st June 2015 at 06:41 PM.. Reason: To complete my thoughts
Old 22nd June 2015
  #11
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Solidtrax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuXx View Post
If youre already using Events, why not just step up to the Opals? I have a pair of Opals and I LOVE them, tested them against the kh310, Focal Twin, Atc scm20 and genelec 8040/8050 and IMO the Event Opals were the clear winner.. They really do perform amazingly well... Not quite as well as Amphions (no im not affiliated in any way) but AMAZING nonetheless

http://www.eventelectronics.com/down...pal_review.pdf
+1 for the Event Opal monitors! They are as big/full sounding as some great 3 way monitors, very revealing, honest, but not boring. No fatigue when mixing on them for a few hours. Handle electronic music with ease, very powerful. Fantastic imaging. The sound balance stays the same regardless of how loud you have them, there is no bass collapse when you run them quietly for example. I really don't feel the need to add a sub (in stereo), as we did in our main studio with the PMC build Digidesign RM2's.

Last edited by Solidtrax; 22nd June 2015 at 06:56 AM..
Old 22nd June 2015
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypemusic View Post
I've tried to look at the Opals but, like Amphion, they are rare as hen's teeth in Toronto, at least. Where I bought my Events (Steve's Music) doesn't carry the line any more. There is one place that does have them and I'll have to contact them to see if I can demo them. The Opal price is the same as used Neumann's so I'd be willing to check them out. I've only read rave reviews about them.
@ LuXx - Since you've shot them out, what is the difference between the Kh310 and Opals? I find that when I audition monitors that are reputed to be "Clear or detailed" I find those monitors to be be quite bright sounding (Focal Twin6 come to mind). What made them a clear winner for you?

Just buy them blindly like I did, you'll be happy as ****!!!
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