The software will run you through it- but it takes to effort to dial in correctly - probably 3 hours at least

so the mic itself do not have a preferably front(face/side) because I do not see any further explanation about that in the instructions.

It's an omni mic; you are supposed to point it up vertically in the seated position at ear height.

A couple nights ago the guys and I had dinner and then spent another couple hours fine tuning the GLM. (Definitely helpful to have at least one other person helping).

Got out our tape measure, confirmed that distance between the speakers and my ears was exactly equidistant.... Ended up moving one speaker 3/4 of an inch... stopped, ran the software, listened to a wide variety of music, then decided to move the console three inches forward in the room- adjusted the monitors accordingly, reran the software...

It kept getting better and better, then we used a new feature on the software, Profile Adjuster? (If I recall), to fine tune the filters in the software- all of a sudden, after 20 minutes on adjusting- BAM- I found the sweet spot where the system sounded perfect- balanced , natural....

Totally worth the time investment-

the thing is that are so many variables, the 38% is not necessarily always the best place for the listening position, then the distance from the speakers that is variable, and also as you mentioned the desk position etc etc.


did you tests moving listening position, speaker distance, desk etc etc to be able to find first a better(flatter) response of the speakers in the room and then apply auto cal??

Now, after doing many tests, can you say that was a correlation between how flat the curve of the room it was comparing to the outcome after the auto cal?

or that did not have necessarily a correlation about how you perceive a better sound in the room after applying Auto Cal.

I hope I explain my self clearly.

Not sure I follow you-

Okay,

So lets say you got as you said a better sounding system with your 8351a, moving the desk and one speaker.

When you see the curve of the room in GLM, the Freq response looks better or flatter now comparing to the curve of the previous layout of the speaker and the desk?

or not, but for whatever reason just sounds better to you now after GLM auto cal.

It's always a combination (as is pro audio in general) of trusting your software AND trusting your ears. So one informs the other. The GLM showed me a dip, after moving the console forward a few inches, that dip was half what it had been....

Thank you!!

Is the GLM 2.0 is mandatory? I've sonarworks.
thanks

You can't save your Sonarworks room profile to the DSP in the 8351 like you can with GLM.

i can save the sonarworks file and insert the plugin in the master fader. does it do the same job?
thanks

There's more that happens in GLM, timing stuff and if you have a subwoofer additional phase relationship stuff.

Also I imagine the EQ curves in GLM have been engineered to be delivering optimal results and paired with the speakers.

I heard this Gen's and was blown away. I think I will have to start saving for them. They are on a different level than anything else I have heard. Wow

Another great thing is you can build a bass management system (if you want the little extra) as easy as building with Lego blocks. Because SAM monitors are 100 percent digital you can callbrate and set crossovers any way you want from your computer screen.

Yeah, I am having the same lust myself. So damn expensive though. Will start saving. Guess I could sell my current setup and riddle it down to around 5 grand. lol Definitely though, I think 2 way and especially 3 way systems are not as efficient for near filed operation as a coaxial system imo.

What does this even mean? What do you mean by "efficient"? And by definition, coaxial is at the bare minimum a 2 way system.

I was talking about the near field. When speakers are close to you the drivers are "separate" and the timing differences are more extreme. IMO, that's why coaxial systems are more "efficient" since the separation between each drivers is far less, and thus you have a better stereo stage and far less phase issues. Anyway, didn't mean to cause controversy. This is just my opinion. Carry on.

Not controversy. "Efficient" has a meaning as a term and is not open to subjective evaluation.
You possibly meant "coherent" which is applicable.

Whatever semantics you want to use I am cool with.

8351 users, if you had my needs (read below), would you part with your pair for a pair of Amphion One18 or One15 or would you stick to the big guns, the 8351's? Also, do you think the 8351 translates just as well as the Amphion's? I'm really taken by the overwhelming love for the Amphion's and have read 80% of the 5000+ posts in the Amphion thread over the last 10 days. I'm a bit surprised and curious why the 8351 hasn't received such a welcome or following. 10-15 threads on GS over the past 2 years... Why is that?

Based on what I've read, the 8351 ticks every box for me over the Amphion One's... except perhaps translation. Ideally I'd like to own both kits, but I can only afford one of these. The 8351 seems to be more of an all inclusive piece of kit over the Amphion's. They seem to have everything you would ever want or need. The 8351 would for example eliminate my old DAC and also give me the benefit of GLM without the added latency of Sonarworks, which is good but a hassle with some bugs and idiosyncrasies. They are active and pack more bottom end than the Amphion's. They have circuit protection and more watts on tap. Not to mention coaxial three way design. I have not heard either speaker but plan on taking a trip to listen to the 8351 in the near future.

My workflow really involves all aspects from producing, tracking, mixing, writing and mastering and I work in a lot of genres from IDM, EDM, pop, rock to hip hop and singer-songwriter. I usually work on writing and producing and mixing in tandem. I need a seamless and non-linear workflow between tracking, producing, mix and master. Need to cover a lot of ground. Really hoping to find a speaker that'll let me do these tasks. 8351 seems to be "it".

some degree of anti genelec bias here, which dates back to this forum being early on the Adam S3a's. Dave Bryce did a masterful job of getting them into the hands of likely early adopters and imho literally built the brand in the US.
So this forum has a knack of moving through monitors - S3a's - Barefoot MM27's and now Amphion (with again Dave Bryce being involved although they were more than catching on already when he came on board). The anti genelec bias still seems to remain a bit from the 1031 vs S3a days. Not to mention that the big thread was viral marketing genius (some feeling there was a marketing plan underneath all along, others believing it was an honest evolution. Either way - its a case study in web based marketing). Also factor in that Anssi is a great dude. Open, accessible and passionate about his products, which makes it personal vs genelecs old school corporate style which no one loves. In the new world order its clear which is effective and which is not anymore.

as to why there are far more threads on amphions - they have the one15 and one18's which come in at a cost effective price point, so they have many more users. 8351's cost even more than two18's+amp500 so its a much smaller market at that price point.

Don't let any of that dissuade you from demo'ing the 8351's. This forum doesn't represent the whole scene. I'm seeing wide adoption of the PMC two two's, which get no love here at all, yet some top mixers are cranking out hits on them. Barefoot love has faded here, for no good reason that I can see. Just a trend change.

I've owned most every monitor talked about here so I have real world informed opinions - which will help you exactly not at all.
Your ears are not mine so only you mixing on each speaker in your room would give you valid info to make a decision.
Get some demo's. Spend a week mixing a couple tunes. Demo the next speaker - mix the same tunes (zero out all plugs and start over from scratch).
Don't judge the mixes only on those speakers. Take the mixes everywhere and compare them. Only way to really know.

also - spend as little money as possible. music matters. gear matters much less than we all would like to admit. two15's and a cheap sub might get it done.
8351's won't need a sub. And if you are up in the price territory of 8351's - Kii threes aren't much more.

Funny story for you - I consolidated from two rooms to one, and also moved to a smaller space which led to deciding to change from ATC 150's/25's to ATC 50's. Sold my 25's and figured why not try the Kii's before getting the 50's - which ended up leaving me with no speakers at all for a couple weeks (seriously bad planning). But nothing mission critical was due so no biggie - until the phone rings. crap.
I pull out a pair of tiny genelec 108xx (whatever the f'k they are) that have been in a storage tub for a decade and an old gen 1092 sub that I forgot I even still had. Hooked it up, spent a day learning them and got the work done.
Mixes translated just fine. Sound great.
So wtf am I obsessing about 10K monitors for .....????
Point is - music matters. get some demo units. do some mixes = buy the ones that win the mix translation shootout - then stop reading monitor threads

I've been here on GS since Jules PM'd me at the old forum inviting me over, back in the stone ages. Love this place but I'm finding that it less and less represents the overall scene. It has its own special culture/group think which current loves Amphion (I dig them to) and likely love something else down the road. Amphions are great tools and deserve to be demo'd.
8351's are worthy of the time and shipping cost to demo also.

One of the best posts and answers given on this forum in quite a period

I mixed on both 8351s and Amphion Two15s

Both are great, both translate very well

when I switched from the genelecs to the Amphions and Viceversa both speakers represent the mix without any "missing" factor.

Which one is better, depends from you and the flavour you like...

But The 8351's are tanks and not sub needed....

The Gens 8351 do not have anything to do with the 1031's or the 8040-8050s ....now many people love and get great mixes from the 8040-8050s

I can only speak about my own experience. To me, it seems like Genelec is too "rational" to many people. The 8351a delivers everything in one box (plus a small GLM box), which makes tweaking in terms of amps, DACs and analog cables redundant.

The rational no-nonsense guy is never the most popular guy at the cocktail party. Which gives me the hunch that Genelec would win more rational, committee based purchasing decisions than individual buying decisions. Am I right?

In my eyes the main competitors of 8351a would be even more novel technology (for example Kii?) and bigger, more powerful systems with great specs (for example Geithain 801k?).

If Genelec would come out with a bigger version of the 8351a (say a box of 60-70 kg) and at least 3kW of clean power (possibly external amp and DAC which enables upgrading when new class D and DAC technology emerges), I think Genelec would be an inevitable partner for both music and film studios with everything from mobile to smaller mixing rooms to larger master rooms.

One possibly negative side of the 8351a and Genelec's coax series is that the monitors' ability to throw sound diminishes sharply as distance increases. The tweeter information diminishes sharply after about 1,5-2,0 meters.

I deomoed them, along with JBL 708 and Amphion two15, one18 and one15. Genelec representative in my country treated me very nice. They are good! biggest sweet spot of the bunch to eq or compress actually being able to spot changes in racks that are out of the sweet spot. Luckily for me, what made me mix better were the cheapest of the bunch, the one15!. (my room is small -mid and heavily treated) My Genelec mixes were client approved, and mastered but me, my client and the mastering engineer liked better the Jbl and amphion mixes. I did two songs of an album with each. For tracking i got a subwoofer to add the bottom octave and punch to my one15 and i´m currently very happy with my setup. I turn the sub off for most of the mixing. Translation has never been better, but i´m still learning them. It´s not magic

Not sure what you mean by this... the coax system (which includes the tweeter) is the same used in the bigger 8260, which is considered to be a mid-field monitor. I use my 8260 (which I prefer to the 8351) at 1.9 m listening distance, I never experienced problems with increased distances.

My measurements show a 6 dB or so fall in the curve from 12 kHz to 20 kHz in the farthest (about 2m) listening position. When the position is more ideal, the curve is as flat as the earth.

I take it that this is part due to 8351a's construction (it's a near-field!) and low power reserves. The 8341as have much higher power reserves than 8351a, so Genelec is well aware of this shortcoming.

FYI: Tweeter power of SAM coax monitors:

8341: 150w
8351: 90w
8260: 120w

BTW: Ulrich, why do you prefer the 8260 to the 8351?

For sure a matter of taste (and maybe also of the genre? I am doing classical, probably most others her don't) To me the 8260 generates better the big picture, and I think I prefer the woofer technology of the 8260. But I'm still curious to listen to the new "ones" (8431, 8331) when they become available.

Huge thanks for that assessment.

Kii are way out of my range. Even feeling the 8351 is a bit of a stretch. I've read a bit about the Kii's, but they seem to have a huge latency. Something like 90 ms, which would translate to having your speakers pushed back about 100 feet from your listening position. This compared to the 5 ms (about 5 feet) latency of the Gens. Considering the DA-conversion, low-latency DSP room calibration and extended bottom, circuit protection, more watts, three way coaxial with great soundstage – overall, the Gens seem to tick every box for me...