The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Genelec 8351 - Anyone else using these?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #391
Gear Head
 
Jargonfilter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigL View Post
Jargonfilter:
Your post above suggests that GLM creates impulse correction. But it did not do this for me and their documentation suggests that impulse correction is limited to aligning subs with the monitors. Does it actually do impulse correction for the stereo monitor image alone?
Use impulse correction with REW and you are right that it makes a TREMENDOUS difference -- perhaps even more improvement than FR correction.
Again, as noted above, when I shift back and forth using the Bypass tab, I can tell no difference in my GLM setup. My room is well treated and have all world class electronics (Gordon Pres, RME UFX converters, EndPCNoise computers, down the line).
But I can hear no difference from the subtle downwards FR corrections that GLM makes. Have looked at the changes made by GLM, used their Cloud engine to revise the corrections, and made small (downwards) adjustments myself in their interface to bring the FR closer to 0 db.
STILL, I can hear no difference. But if impulse correction was somehow available, know that it would be audible and would love to use this.
I'm not sure about the details of the type of correction GLM uses, I just was very aware that the accuracy of the stereo field was improved quite a bit.

However, I'd like to stress that for me, GLM3 was what made the difference. For whatever reason, GLM2 just didn't work very well for the stereo field (despite doing a good job of the frequency response issues in my room). I actually found the stereo field to be quite smeared in some frequencies, to the point of offsetting the phantom center at times. GLM3 100% fixed all my issues, so I'm curious if you tried your setup with GLM2 or 3. That said if REW does it better for your room then stick with what works! Maybe Genelec will push a firmware update for GLM at some point that makes a bigger difference for you.

Also as MIKEHARRIS suggested, it would be interesting to see what an 8361 would look and sound like. I for one would like to see them tackle a cardioid setup like dutch & dutch / kii have. I'm also really curious to hear what Genelecs S360s sound like. Its the first monitor they've made with compression drivers (like the JBL 7 series). Part of me wonders what a compression driver in a point source configuration would sound like heh. Anyone else hear the S360s? How do they compare to the 8351... not exactly an apples to apples comparison I know... still, I'm curious!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #392
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
A dip isn't the same as a null, however. It is straightforward to lift a dip, the main risk is around how localised the dip is and whether the boost is creating a peak at a slightly different measurement position.
A dip in the FR can be caused by a null (basically phase cancellation due to reflections) or it could be caused by something else such as absorption, the transfer function of the system etc. Phase cancellation is always local to specific areas of a room due to room modes. If a dip is caused by phase cancellation (ie null/room modes/ standing waves etc) it is not straightforward at all - in fact its not possible to change this by boosting the EQ at that frequency and you risk famaging your equipment the only thing that can help is acoustic treatment. If a dip is caused by something else you can boost it.
The point I was making is that the words "null" and "dip" should not be used interchangeably. A null is deep and narrow, a dip isn't. Unsmoothed measurements are required to make the distinction, of course.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #393
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jargonfilter View Post
Anyone else hear the S360s? How do they compare to the 8351... not exactly an apples to apples comparison I know... still, I'm curious!
Yes. They are high-powered speakers and would not be good in nearfield situations (like the 8351).

As for "point source, compression driver", the Altec 601 were that.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #394
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Yes. They are high-powered speakers and would not be good in nearfield situations (like the 8351).

As for "point source, compression driver", the Altec 601 were that.
@ pentagon ,

why do you think S360 will «not be good in nearfield situations»?

See page 15-16 in this document on in-room performance:

https://www.genelec.com/sites/defaul...0806_web_0.pdf
Old 3 weeks ago
  #395
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
@ pentagon ,

why do you think S360 will «not be good in nearfield situations»?

See page 15-16 in this document on in-room performance:

https://www.genelec.com/sites/defaul...0806_web_0.pdf
Because I've heard them in person when Genelec set them up for a demo for me in LA after NAMM. You need somewhere between 2-3 m with them.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #396
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Because I've heard them in person when Genelec set them up for a demo for me in LA after NAMM. You need somewhere between 2-3 m with them.
I’ve heard them too. And plan to hear them again in my room next week
Old 3 weeks ago
  #397
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
A null is deep and narrow, a dip isn't. Unsmoothed measurements are required to make the distinction, of course.
Aye - but thats not necessarily true - a dip could could be deep and narrow if, for example, the crossover in your speakers or some other aspect of your equipment was faulty. Nulls arent necessarily deep either - thus room treatment to reduce them - but often not get rid of them completely.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #398
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
A null is deep and narrow, a dip isn't. Unsmoothed measurements are required to make the distinction, of course.
Mmm I know what you're driving at but I beg to differ - a dip could could be deep and narrow if, for example, the crossover in your speakers or some other aspect of your equipment was faulty. Nulls arent necessarily deep either - thus room treatment to reduce them - but often not get rid of them completely. This is getting into a bit of semantic joust rather than a discussion of the physics behind such phenomena - so I bid you gooday sir.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #399
Gear Maniac
 
Amphibian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigL View Post
Just purchased and installed a stereo set of 8351s -- partly because of the high praise found on Gearslutz for these monitors. Since I use Gearslutz for many audio buying decisions, want to add my own experiences to help others who do the same.
Got the monitors from the good folks at SoundPure who know how to work with you and provide appropriate pricing. Keep up the good work, Ted.
My older system was Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors and HSU subs all carefully tuned with REW. They were a value proposition that sounded well above their cost.
After installing the 8351s and tuning them with GLM spent several days listening to personal feeds and popular/classical recordings. The improvement was not dramatic but significant. Here are some of the changes noticed.
1. Timbral accuracy was significantly improved, especially for bass instruments and percussion that are well damped. Double bass and bass drums sound realistic and tight. Timpani in orchestral passages are more distinct than I have ever heard. Wonder if some of this is from the well designed Class D amplification (with class A/B for the treble).
2. Soundstage is crisp, detailed, and effortless.
3. Dynamic range and extremes are secure with no distortion or strain. Listen normally in the mid-80s db range and they are perfect here. Extremely loud passages are impressive indeed.
4. Very dense textures are clean and sound surprisingly different than any of the audiophile systems I listen to. Listen to the 3rd movement of Shostakovich's 8th symphony for a good example -- very dense with dramatic percussion that all gets sorted out perfectly with these monitors.
Am a careful and value audio person (and lifelong musician) who has only recently started to emphasize high end purchases for needed improvement (thanks again, Gearslutz for steering me to the Neumann M149 -- the best mic I have ever used). For me, the 8351s are expensive but worthwhile. If you compare them with audiophile products, they have the aluminum cases used by Magico (6-figure loudspeakers) and the time alignment stressed by Wilson (Sashas are now around 40k).
So, by comparison to audiophile equivalents, they might be considered a bargain..
Now for the slight disappointment...
Have been using REW for many years to fine tune audio and studio systems and this software has become sophisticated and powerful.
GLM is, by comparison, poor. It only allows for lowering FR peaks. Assumptions that this is the "correct" way to do room correction is not my experience. REW does both plus and minus corrections and this is required if you demand ruler flat response.
Have not received responses from Genelec concerning questions I have submitted to them about GLM but, as near as I can tell, GLM will not allow for plugins to insert or create convolution files nor will it allow for tweaking of auto calculations past a simple change of the limited filters shown in its own interface.
As a result, if your room ends up with an area that needs to be boosted, you cannot do it with GLM. My studio is well treated and I can live with the - 10db trough I have around 70cps. With REW, however, this would be trivial to correct.
Will not be buying a Genelec sub because the 8351s were chosen in particular because they respond down to 32cps. My experience has been that full range speakers are always more accurate than adding a sub.
SO, great news with the 8351s, buy a pair if you require this level of performance. You are warned, however, that GLM is not at the level of REW and you might want to compare the options here.
After correcting with GLM, then checking the signal by bypassing, there is virtually no change. Other reviewers have noted this lack of improvement -- compare the 6 Moons review; it seconds the above exactly.
Perhaps GLM will upgrade their DSP to allow for plus values and, if so, then the story will change.
Keep up the good work, Gearslutz crowd. Your information is vital for those of use who search for the perfect sound.
There is no ruler flat response.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #400
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
My hope for when I demo the 8341's is that they solve alot of the issues I'm having with my Focal Twins. If the Twins are put in vertical orientation the imaging becomes a lazer and they are phenomenal but they don't sound as flat as when they're horizontal. On the other hand, when the Twins are horizontal the image sounds smeared and the front to back is totally gone but they're flatter and in general probably translate better in this orientation. It's really one of the other with the Twins.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #401
Lives for gear
 
Rob King's Avatar
I just installed a full Dolby Atmos setup using the ones and 8320A's as my tops. The 8351, 8341 and 8331's all match really well. Suprisingly the 8320A's Don't feel small as the top's. They hang with the 8331's fairly well. As far as the sub I went for the 7380A just for the spec's and low end extension at lower volumes. For fun I did an 8341 and a 8351 in a stereo setup and they were fairly indistinguishable using the sub. the 8341's are definitely the sweet spot. I probably would have went full LCR on the 8341's but I acquired the 8351's a year prior with the intention of building the Atmos setup later. But the 8351's for Stereo music mixing are amazing. The GLM3 software is a god send! My room has never sounded so balanced and beautiful. Everything sounds pretty damn amazing through these monitors. I Highly recommend them!

My Config is:
8351's LR
8341 C
8331 Surrounds
8320A Tops
7380A Sub

All on GLM3



Old 3 weeks ago
  #402
Gear Addict
 
johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jargonfilter View Post
Anyone else hear the S360s? How do they compare to the 8351... not exactly an apples to apples comparison I know... still, I'm curious!
Heard them briefly at the München High End show. Seemed to have the same Genelec neutral "sound," just with the compression driver adding some... acoustic acceleration? I always get this weird feeling with horn speakers...

They also switched on their new fridge-sized subwoofer but you could hardly feel it add anything since they were playing music.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #403
Here for the gear
 

Guys is sweetwater price of 7750 $ the lowest US price for Genelecs? They are quite more expensive than the Thomann price (5400 Euro).
Old 2 weeks ago
  #404
Lives for gear
 
duckoff's Avatar
 

Got mine recently at Thomann that was the cheapest price I could find (am UK tho)

Worth asking for a deal...
Old 1 week ago
  #405
Gear Addict
 
Avantmidi's Avatar
I posted this a while back. But did not get a real confirmation from Genelec or someone on the forum yet. I'm curious.

Does the 8351's slave to external wordclock via AES/EBU? There are no settings one can make but I remember the character changing while clocking my system to the Hedd 192 -> Apollo -> 8351's.

In other words: Would it be possible to even further improve the overal sound by introducing a higher quality / different quality clock?

Now driving them with my Apollo 16MK2 AES/EBU out at 96KHZ (maximum supported KHZ of 8351's).
I am considering getting a Dangerous AD+ for various reasons.
One being an improved overall clock for the Apollo and indeed possibly also for the 8531's.
Old 1 week ago
  #406
Lives for gear
 
OliverV's Avatar
 

double DSP

To those who are concerned that the GLM filters on the 8351 don’t go far enough for them, can I just point out that this doesn’t preclude using further correction if you want to.

I’m getting great results using GLM and Sonarworks together - apart from some small reduction around 2khz, GLM is only operating in the 30-50hz range in my room - but this lets Sonarworks do its thing in a less aggressive way than it would have to if used on its own.
Old 1 week ago
  #407
Gear Head
 

Hi all,

What's the best solution to control volume wirelessly? A physical and simple remote - not a laptop.

Does Genelec make a wireless volume controller? Or only the wired controller?

Something that controls the speaker's internal volume would be ideal.

Otherwise an interface with AES3 output and it's own digital control volume is ok. But still, must have physical wireless volume remote control.
Old 6 days ago
  #408
Hi All,

Recently i bought a pair of 8351's and as i do electronic music and sometimes like to hear full range, so i decided to buy a 7360a sub with them.

I have a question regarding sub integration, and have read through the forum but do not see this mentioned.

I currently have the cross over point @75hz but have been trying to calibrate it with GLM to have a lower highpass as i would rather have more of the low end come from the monitors, and just 50hz and below coming from the sub...Now i set the cross over high pass the speakers in GLM software and runt he calibration but every time i select such a low cross over point the sub sounds non existent and thin... I need to make the woofer output at least 70hz for the bass to sound balanced.

What am i doing wrong? Should i just manually boost the lower freq? Is anyone else running into the same issue?
Old 6 days ago
  #409
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
Hi All,

Recently i bought a pair of 8351's and as i do electronic music and sometimes like to hear full range, so i decided to buy a 7360a sub with them.

I have a question regarding sub integration, and have read through the forum but do not see this mentioned.

I currently have the cross over point @75hz but have been trying to calibrate it with GLM to have a lower highpass as i would rather have more of the low end come from the monitors, and just 50hz and below coming from the sub...Now i set the cross over high pass the speakers in GLM software and runt he calibration but every time i select such a low cross over point the sub sounds non existent and thin... I need to make the woofer output at least 70hz for the bass to sound balanced.

What am i doing wrong? Should i just manually boost the lower freq? Is anyone else running into the same issue?
It should not sound thin, but it should depend on your actual measurements (performance) of the sub and monitors in your room, where the optimal crossover should be placed. I have mine crossed at 70Hz and they perform optimal this way the way they are set up in my room. Post some GLM measurement screenshots of your sub and your speakers for a better advice.
Old 6 days ago
  #410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
It should not sound thin, but it should depend on your actual measurements (performance) of the sub and monitors in your room, where the optimal crossover should be placed. I have mine crossed at 70Hz and they perform optimal this way the way they are set up in my room. Post some GLM measurement screenshots of your sub and your speakers for a better advice.
Hey Jantex,
I will do this on the weekend as i am currently travelling, but i will get measurements for you to see for yourself.

Thanks again for helping out.
Old 4 days ago
  #411
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
Hi All,

Recently i bought a pair of 8351's and as i do electronic music and sometimes like to hear full range, so i decided to buy a 7360a sub with them.

I have a question regarding sub integration, and have read through the forum but do not see this mentioned.

I currently have the cross over point @75hz but have been trying to calibrate it with GLM to have a lower highpass as i would rather have more of the low end come from the monitors, and just 50hz and below coming from the sub...Now i set the cross over high pass the speakers in GLM software and runt he calibration but every time i select such a low cross over point the sub sounds non existent and thin... I need to make the woofer output at least 70hz for the bass to sound balanced.

What am i doing wrong? Should i just manually boost the lower freq? Is anyone else running into the same issue?
Have you done the phase calibration as well?

Before I got my 8351s + 7370, I got the advice to keep the crossover low, at like 50hz but I found that mine works best at 100hz.
Old 3 days ago
  #412
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMeadow View Post
Have you done the phase calibration as well?

Before I got my 8351s + 7370, I got the advice to keep the crossover low, at like 50hz but I found that mine works best at 100hz.
Isn't the phase calibration already automated when you calibrate? The few times i have calibrated or re-calibrated it has always done a phase calibration too.

I will be in front of it tomorrow evening and will attempt calibrating again at a lower cutoff. Just a note, at the default, the volume control on the sub was at -6 and i adjusted it to 0db, but this didn't help.
Old 3 days ago
  #413
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
Isn't the phase calibration already automated when you calibrate? The few times i have calibrated or re-calibrated it has always done a phase calibration too.

I will be in front of it tomorrow evening and will attempt calibrating again at a lower cutoff. Just a note, at the default, the volume control on the sub was at -6 and i adjusted it to 0db, but this didn't help.
Yeah but I think you can opt out on doing the phase calibration, make sure not to skip that step. I think it can be done manually too, adjusting the phase 15 degrees at a time.

Myself I ran calibrations with all crossovers available, I believe it ranges from 50 to 100hz. 100hz gave me the best results, although with just a little bit too much low end to my ears, so I lowered the sub -3db in the GLM software.

I guess there's no absolute truths to all this, it's all in your room so do what works best for you and your space.
Old 2 days ago
  #414
Gear Maniac
 

Have anyone compared the 8331 to the larger models?

The 8331 is considerably cheaper (4200€ the pair). I'm doing mostly electronic music so bass impulse response is very important, but I'm doing mostly very very nearfield monitoring because I have neighbours and my room isn't that good.

I'm asking myself two questions.

Is the difference to the larger 83xx models really just the max. loudness and how low the bass can go? Or is there a quality difference in imaging and transient/impulse response and so on? I know by own experience that I prefer the 8040 (my current speaker) to the 8030 purely from the sound quality (so imaging and stuff, not the loudness). Therefore I would prefer only real experience and no guessing :-)


For the future: I could add a sub later when I have a better room. Therefore to be future proof. Do you think that the 8331 + sub in a good acoustical environment is a good choice for critical listening in nearfield? Or is it a big advantage to have a bigger 83xx model in this situation? I'm a bit worried because you have a 4 way speaker this way (3 ways genelec + sub) and that means a lot of x-overs which is usually not good for transient response.

I want to be able to judge audio quality on a high level for acoustic recordings but also club music. But again, I really like nearfield (80cm-120cm).

Last edited by AreYouHuman; 2 days ago at 06:51 PM..
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump