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Genelec 8351 - Anyone else using these? Studio Monitors
Old 2nd March 2019
  #331
Gear Maniac
 
Amphibian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispire View Post
Thank you kindly Jantex. Can I safely assume that these kinds of converters provide no loss of signal quality (given that it's a digital conversion)?
I use the Hosa ones with my 8341's, no issues what so ever. SPDIF and AES is basically the same signal with different impedance. I use optical to AES, with my Bricasti M7. No issues there either.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #332
So much better than the 1031's. Unlike Gene's of old these are not shrill and do NOT cause ear fatigue. Love them.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #333
Lives for gear
My 8341s took a one way trip to the computer mixing room it was supposed to be a test run but they never went back. I had to order another pair for the other room.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #334
Gear Maniac
 
Amphibian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
My 8341s took a one way trip to the computer mixing room it was supposed to be a test run but they never went back. I had to order another pair for the other room.
IMHO, the 8341 are the jewel in the series.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #335
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibian View Post
IMHO, the 8341 are the jewel in the series.
They are superb, had them at my place. But still thought 8351 sounded slightly even more open and relaxed.
Old 12th March 2019
  #336
Gear Addict
 
Avantmidi's Avatar
I use my 8351's own DA feeding them the AES Digital output of my Apollo 16MK2.
The 8351's clockslave via AES to the source. The internal, bespoke, per speaker DA in the Gens is perfect.
Another advantage is less latency. When feeding them Analog input it has to go the ADDA route.
Nothing really big in terms of ms but still.
I highly encourage anyone with Genelec SAM's to feed them a digital signal thus using the native per speaker DA.
Old 15th March 2019
  #337
Lives for gear
 

I'm really considering trying a pair of the 8341's possibly with a sub, with the goal of replacing my Amphion Two15/Trinnov setup. Main thing for me, is to be able to have a system that is accurate with minimal latency involved so that it is always the same. If I just mixed I would be happy with the Trinnov, as it's been amazing for translation, but I'm moving back into doing more production and I would love to have a system that was accurate all the time. I'm working on getting a setup to try soon from a local dealer.
Old 18th March 2019
  #338
Gear Head
 
Jargonfilter's Avatar
 

Give the 8351s a listen too. They aren't much more than the 8341s and you might not need the sub depending on your room if you go with the 8351.

Most importantly, get the GLM Kit for whichever configuration you get. These speakers perform so much better with the GLM Kit paired with it.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #339
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
They are superb, had them at my place. But still thought 8351 sounded slightly even more open and relaxed.
They are nice but they would be tooo big for my desk. I have of hours on the 8341s super happy with these, You can pick out issues right away with these it really cuts down workload.
Old 3rd April 2019
  #340
I've had my 8351s for over three years now--no regrets. Echoing the last few posters, get the GML with whatever size coaxial monitors. The GML is what made already great speakers sound heavenly in my room

Also something to keep in mind: I've found the 8351s don't emulate cheap speakers very well like car stereos, cheap headphones, etc. (not that they were intended to). It seems absurd even mentioning it, but these are neutral/realistic sounding professional studio monitors. Acoustic instruments sound like they are playing live in the room through them. That is the best way I can describe the sound.

I just started feeding them from the AES output on the RME UFX+ which is working out great with the ARC USB controller.
I use the 8351s as my "mains" and can easily switch to mix cubes for checking balance and transients in mono and for finding harsh/nasal frequencies, etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #341
Lives for gear
 

Hello,
I have a pair of Amphion one 15 and a pair of Event Opals.
I was thinking about selling the Opals for the Genelec 8351.
But reading many posts, I hear people saying that the Genelec are two sweet and not enough neutral!!!
I am really looking for a neutral pair of speakers that bring me perfect translation.
Are the Genelec in this case the perfect winner, or they do really sound to Heidi.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
It is important to me to make the best choice and have a perfect translation over my mixes.

Thanks for sharing.
Regards
Sergio
Old 3 weeks ago
  #342
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Hello,
I have a pair of Amphion one 15 and a pair of Event Opals.
I was thinking about selling the Opals for the Genelec 8351.
But reading many posts, I hear people saying that the Genelec are two sweet and not enough neutral!!!
I am really looking for a neutral pair of speakers that bring me perfect translation.
Are the Genelec in this case the perfect winner, or they do really sound to Heidi.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
It is important to me to make the best choice and have a perfect translation over my mixes.

Thanks for sharing.
Regards
Sergio
I think the combination of the Amphions and the Opals is a wonderful choice already. The Amphions are already as good as it gets in terms of translation IMHO - though this is admittedly a very subjective matter, many would agree, as per that thread being one of the most viewed of all time here on GS. And like all speakers, the more time I spend with them, the better the results. Best money I have spent in recent memory, by a wide margin.

The Opals have tons of headroom for tracking and a 2nd opinion, which make them a nice complement. While the 8351s are technically superior, I think replacing the Opals would be a mostly lateral move and would suggest just honing in more with the Amphions.

I started out with a 2nd set of monitors beside the Amphions and ended up selling them and adding a sub to the One15's. I only use the sub for tracking or client wow factor, not for critical mixing. In the end I concluded that the additional set of monitors was more of distraction than a help.

YMMV.
Cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #343
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Hello,
I have a pair of Amphion one 15 and a pair of Event Opals.
I was thinking about selling the Opals for the Genelec 8351.
But reading many posts, I hear people saying that the Genelec are two sweet and not enough neutral!!!
I am really looking for a neutral pair of speakers that bring me perfect translation.
Are the Genelec in this case the perfect winner, or they do really sound to Heidi.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
It is important to me to make the best choice and have a perfect translation over my mixes.

Thanks for sharing.
Regards
Sergio
Genelecs are sounding as neutral as it gets. Probably some of the most neutral sounding speakers and a huge step up over Opals as far as a natural sound and accuracy is concerned.

Translation is not about speakers, so you are missing the point and posting such nonsense questions all over the forum. Speakers will sound as good as your room and speaker setup will enable them.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #344
Lives for gear
 
Hansest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Genelecs are sounding as neutral as it gets. Probably some of the most neutral sounding speakers and a huge step up over Opals as far as a natural sound and accuracy is concerned.

Translation is not about speakers, so you are missing the point and posting such nonsense questions all over the forum. Speakers will sound as good as your room and speaker setup will enable them.
translation is not about speakers? wow. Translation starts with speakers! maybe you meant that without considering acoustics, you can have any speaker and not get translation, and that i agree to. But the true is also opposite: you can have an almost perfect room, and a pair of speakers that you don't connect to (because that is important too, you see, everybody has a different hearing) and you won't translate. So yes, speakers are part of translation.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #345
Gear Head
 
Jargonfilter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Hello,
I have a pair of Amphion one 15 and a pair of Event Opals.
I was thinking about selling the Opals for the Genelec 8351.
But reading many posts, I hear people saying that the Genelec are two sweet and not enough neutral!!!
I am really looking for a neutral pair of speakers that bring me perfect translation.
Are the Genelec in this case the perfect winner, or they do really sound to Heidi.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
It is important to me to make the best choice and have a perfect translation over my mixes.

Thanks for sharing.
Regards
Sergio
If you get the Genelecs, be sure to get the GLM kit as that will make a huge difference for bringing the monitors to true neutrality in your room. It helps with not just frequency response but stereo imaging. I think you might be shocked coming from those monitors at how good the 8351s are for stereo imaging. It's at a point where if you calibrate it correctly and put them in a decent room, you'll be hearing mix issues you never heard before. That's a good thing because it'll reduce the guess work you have to do to get a final mix.

Speaking for myself, the Genelec 8351 were the best decision I've made in my studio.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #346
I have the 8341s and 7360 sub; it's truly a stunning package of full-range detail and clarity. Fully calibrated, the sub is barely doing much work, but it makes that bottom octave just perfect. I would be happy working on the 8341s on their own in any room, too.
Old 1 week ago
  #347
Gear Head
 

New 8351s in the house

Just purchased and installed a stereo set of 8351s -- partly because of the high praise found on Gearslutz for these monitors. Since I use Gearslutz for many audio buying decisions, want to add my own experiences to help others who do the same.
Got the monitors from the good folks at SoundPure who know how to work with you and provide appropriate pricing. Keep up the good work, Ted.
My older system was Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors and HSU subs all carefully tuned with REW. They were a value proposition that sounded well above their cost.
After installing the 8351s and tuning them with GLM spent several days listening to personal feeds and popular/classical recordings. The improvement was not dramatic but significant. Here are some of the changes noticed.
1. Timbral accuracy was significantly improved, especially for bass instruments and percussion that are well damped. Double bass and bass drums sound realistic and tight. Timpani in orchestral passages are more distinct than I have ever heard. Wonder if some of this is from the well designed Class D amplification (with class A/B for the treble).
2. Soundstage is crisp, detailed, and effortless.
3. Dynamic range and extremes are secure with no distortion or strain. Listen normally in the mid-80s db range and they are perfect here. Extremely loud passages are impressive indeed.
4. Very dense textures are clean and sound surprisingly different than any of the audiophile systems I listen to. Listen to the 3rd movement of Shostakovich's 8th symphony for a good example -- very dense with dramatic percussion that all gets sorted out perfectly with these monitors.
Am a careful and value audio person (and lifelong musician) who has only recently started to emphasize high end purchases for needed improvement (thanks again, Gearslutz for steering me to the Neumann M149 -- the best mic I have ever used). For me, the 8351s are expensive but worthwhile. If you compare them with audiophile products, they have the aluminum cases used by Magico (6-figure loudspeakers) and the time alignment stressed by Wilson (Sashas are now around 40k).
So, by comparison to audiophile equivalents, they might be considered a bargain..
Now for the slight disappointment...
Have been using REW for many years to fine tune audio and studio systems and this software has become sophisticated and powerful.
GLM is, by comparison, poor. It only allows for lowering FR peaks. Assumptions that this is the "correct" way to do room correction is not my experience. REW does both plus and minus corrections and this is required if you demand ruler flat response.
Have not received responses from Genelec concerning questions I have submitted to them about GLM but, as near as I can tell, GLM will not allow for plugins to insert or create convolution files nor will it allow for tweaking of auto calculations past a simple change of the limited filters shown in its own interface.
As a result, if your room ends up with an area that needs to be boosted, you cannot do it with GLM. My studio is well treated and I can live with the - 10db trough I have around 70cps. With REW, however, this would be trivial to correct.
Will not be buying a Genelec sub because the 8351s were chosen in particular because they respond down to 32cps. My experience has been that full range speakers are always more accurate than adding a sub.
SO, great news with the 8351s, buy a pair if you require this level of performance. You are warned, however, that GLM is not at the level of REW and you might want to compare the options here.
After correcting with GLM, then checking the signal by bypassing, there is virtually no change. Other reviewers have noted this lack of improvement -- compare the 6 Moons review; it seconds the above exactly.
Perhaps GLM will upgrade their DSP to allow for plus values and, if so, then the story will change.
Keep up the good work, Gearslutz crowd. Your information is vital for those of use who search for the perfect sound.

Last edited by CraigL; 1 week ago at 03:48 AM.. Reason: Further explanation
Old 1 week ago
  #348
Lives for gear
 
duckoff's Avatar
 

Quote:
New 8351s in the house
Just purchased and installed a stereo set of 8351s -- partly because of the high praise found on Gearslutz for these monitors. Since I use Gearslutz for many audio buying decisions, want to add my own experiences to help others who do the same.
Got the monitors from the good folks at SoundPure who know how to work with you and provide appropriate pricing. Keep up the good work, Ted.
My older system was Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors and HSU subs all carefully tuned with REW. They were a value proposition that sounded well above their cost.
After installing the 8351s and tuning them with GLM spent several days listening to personal feeds and popular/classical recordings. The improvement was not dramatic but significant. Here are some of the changes noticed.
1. Timbral accuracy was significantly improved, especially for bass instruments and percussion that are well damped. Double bass and bass drums sound realistic and tight. Timpani in orchestral passages are more distinct than I have ever heard. Wonder if some of this is from the well designed Class D amplification (with class A/B for the treble).
2. Soundstage is crisp, detailed, and effortless.
3. Dynamic range and extremes are secure with no distortion or strain. Listen normally in the mid-80s db range and they are perfect here. Extremely loud passages are impressive indeed.
4. Very dense textures are clean and sound surprisingly different than any of the audiophile systems I listen to. Listen to the 3rd movement of Shostakovich's 8th symphony for a good example -- very dense with dramatic percussion that all gets sorted out perfectly with these monitors.
Am a careful and value audio person (and lifelong musician) who has only recently started to emphasize high end purchases for needed improvement (thanks again, Gearslutz for steering me to the Neumann M149 -- the best mic I have ever used). For me, the 8351s are expensive but worthwhile. If you compare them with audiophile products, they have the aluminum cases used by Magico (6-figure loudspeakers) and the time alignment stressed by Wilson (Sashas are now around 40k).
So, by comparison to audiophile equivalents, they might be considered a bargain..
Now for the slight disappointment...
Have been using REW for many years to fine tune audio and studio systems and this software has become sophisticated and powerful.
GLM is, by comparison, poor. It only allows for lowering FR peaks. Assumptions that this is the "correct" way to do room correction is not my experience. REW does both plus and minus corrections and this is required if you demand ruler flat response.
Have not received responses from Genelec concerning questions I have submitted to them about GLM but, as near as I can tell, GLM will not allow for plugins to insert or create convolution files nor will it allow for tweaking of auto calculations past a simple change of the limited filters shown in its own interface.
As a result, if your room ends up with an area that needs to be boosted, you cannot do it with GLM. My studio is well treated and I can live with the - 10db trough I have around 70cps. With REW, however, this would be trivial to correct.
Will not be buying a Genelec sub because the 8351s were chosen in particular because they respond down to 32cps. My experience has been that full range speakers are always more accurate than adding a sub.
SO, great news with the 8351s, buy a pair if you require this level of performance. You are warned, however, that GLM is not at the level of REW and you might want to compare the options here.
After correcting with GLM, then checking the signal by bypassing, there is virtually no change. Other reviewers have noted this lack of improvements.
Perhaps GLM will upgrade their DSP to allow for plus values and, if so, then the story will change.
Keep up the good work, Gearslutz crowd. Your information is vital for those of use who search for the perfect sound.
Just got a pair today, was on KH310s before (with sporadic Sonarworks use)
Loving them here, don't really need subs but might end up getting them for the full experience.
Agree re limitations of GLM, however I like the simplicity of it & that its built into the speakers - worth the hit of less detail IMO (I don't like boosts anyhow plus I hate running a separate app for the correction etc etc).
Old 1 week ago
  #349
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckoff View Post
Just got a pair today, was on KH310s before (with sporadic Sonarworks use)
Loving them here, don't really need subs but might end up getting them for the full experience.
Agree re limitations of GLM, however I like the simplicity of it & that its built into the speakers - worth the hit of less detail IMO (I don't like boosts anyhow plus I hate running a separate app for the correction etc etc).
Yes and the architectural design favors GLM usage when using AES digital feeds -- the preferred method for avoiding extra signal conversions. Volume control is also easier with GLM if you either use the mouse or buy the volume control (mine is in the mail).
You can store the GLM EQ into the monitors, run analog XLR into the boxes and use any other EQ method to correct for needed boosts. But this has the disadvantage of duplicating the number of signal conversions. Hope that Genelec looks at GLM and offers an update with boost capabilities -- their interface implies it is possible.
Old 1 week ago
  #350
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigL View Post
Just purchased and installed a stereo set of 8351s -- partly because of the high praise found on Gearslutz for these monitors. Since I use Gearslutz for many audio buying decisions, want to add my own experiences to help others who do the same.
Got the monitors from the good folks at SoundPure who know how to work with you and provide appropriate pricing. Keep up the good work, Ted.
My older system was Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors and HSU subs all carefully tuned with REW. They were a value proposition that sounded well above their cost.
After installing the 8351s and tuning them with GLM spent several days listening to personal feeds and popular/classical recordings. The improvement was not dramatic but significant. Here are some of the changes noticed.
1. Timbral accuracy was significantly improved, especially for bass instruments and percussion that are well damped. Double bass and bass drums sound realistic and tight. Timpani in orchestral passages are more distinct than I have ever heard. Wonder if some of this is from the well designed Class D amplification (with class A/B for the treble).
2. Soundstage is crisp, detailed, and effortless.
3. Dynamic range and extremes are secure with no distortion or strain. Listen normally in the mid-80s db range and they are perfect here. Extremely loud passages are impressive indeed.
4. Very dense textures are clean and sound surprisingly different than any of the audiophile systems I listen to. Listen to the 3rd movement of Shostakovich's 8th symphony for a good example -- very dense with dramatic percussion that all gets sorted out perfectly with these monitors.
Am a careful and value audio person (and lifelong musician) who has only recently started to emphasize high end purchases for needed improvement (thanks again, Gearslutz for steering me to the Neumann M149 -- the best mic I have ever used). For me, the 8351s are expensive but worthwhile. If you compare them with audiophile products, they have the aluminum cases used by Magico (6-figure loudspeakers) and the time alignment stressed by Wilson (Sashas are now around 40k).
So, by comparison to audiophile equivalents, they might be considered a bargain..
Now for the slight disappointment...
Have been using REW for many years to fine tune audio and studio systems and this software has become sophisticated and powerful.
GLM is, by comparison, poor. It only allows for lowering FR peaks. Assumptions that this is the "correct" way to do room correction is not my experience. REW does both plus and minus corrections and this is required if you demand ruler flat response.
Have not received responses from Genelec concerning questions I have submitted to them about GLM but, as near as I can tell, GLM will not allow for plugins to insert or create convolution files nor will it allow for tweaking of auto calculations past a simple change of the limited filters shown in its own interface.
As a result, if your room ends up with an area that needs to be boosted, you cannot do it with GLM. My studio is well treated and I can live with the - 10db trough I have around 70cps. With REW, however, this would be trivial to correct.
Will not be buying a Genelec sub because the 8351s were chosen in particular because they respond down to 32cps. My experience has been that full range speakers are always more accurate than adding a sub.
SO, great news with the 8351s, buy a pair if you require this level of performance. You are warned, however, that GLM is not at the level of REW and you might want to compare the options here.
After correcting with GLM, then checking the signal by bypassing, there is virtually no change. Other reviewers have noted this lack of improvements.
Perhaps GLM will upgrade their DSP to allow for plus values and, if so, then the story will change.
Keep up the good work, Gearslutz crowd. Your information is vital for those of use who search for the perfect sound.
Interesting because this goes contrary to much acoustuc lore which says "you cant boost a null" mainly due to the fact thats its the cancellation spot of a standing wave/ròom mode so increasing the gain of that frequency inceases the gain on the cancelling reflection as well ergot no change. Im sure there are exceptions of course such as absorbtion and the fr of speakers etc etc. Ive been using glm for a while and rew for years. Im curious how do you use the fr graph from rew to program an eq do you do it manually or is there a vst you can import an fr file too ? Also can you correct for multiple locations simoutaneously like GLM ? Normally doing a simple FR correction in one spot will put it out of wack in amother spot wheeas GLM lets ypu correct response over a larger "sweet spot" .Ive found this the good thing with glm as well as phase aligning sub, the automated asprct of it and the option to callibrate multichannel speaker arrays. Can this be done with Rew ? Not picking a fight here just really curious about what software and processes you're using.
Ive been measuring glm response with rew before and after glm and have notice significant improvements. I dont see any reason you couldnt do the Rew processing AFTER glm since the glm FR is actuaĺy writen into the hardware of the speaker.
Old 1 week ago
  #351
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusss View Post
Interesting because this goes contrary to much acoustuc lore which says "you cant boost a null" mainly due to the fact thats its the cancellation spot of a standing wave/ròom mode so increasing the gain of that frequency inceases the gain on the cancelling reflection as well ergot no change.
A dip isn't the same as a null, however. It is straightforward to lift a dip, the main risk is around how localised the dip is and whether the boost is creating a peak at a slightly different measurement position.
Old 1 week ago
  #352
Gear Head
 
Jargonfilter's Avatar
 

Hey CraigL, I was wondering the same thing, and I'm fairly certain I saw a genelec employee respond on their forums with the reasoning that they don't want to boost nulls as you can end up boosting and boosting without actually gaining anything back as the null will simply eat up everything you feed it (it's cancelling out completely). All that would do is eat up your head room. So their approach is to simply be subtractive and, with enough subtractive EQ you can end up with a very flat frequency response. Of course if you have minor dips, a boost would be nice for sure. I think one of the benefits of GLM though is also phase/stereo imaging. After running GLM kit my stereo imaging was way, way better. Usually with other room EQ software I've tried, that does't improve much in my experience. Also, the 8351 seem to benefit from a sub, esp if you want to play them at a further distance as they'll increase your headroom. Normally subwoofers are pretty hard to configure since you have to deal with crossover and phase... but GLM solves this problem as well, so if you ever do get a sub, thats an added bonus.

That being said, I think many people will use their genelecs with GLM + Sonarworks or something similar. I don't personally do that but I'm betting its a winning combination and would love to try that at some point.
Old 1 week ago
  #353
Gear Head
 

Guss, JohnP, and Jargonfilter Response

Need to bunch up the responses to save time.
In general, this is the method many of us use with REW. We measure the room from a particular spot (just one) and this creates FR and impulse data. Then you can automatically correct this data with REW's engine or do the corrections yourself if you feel comfortable with the process. Corrections you do yourself can be far more accurate once you learn the system and feel comfortable with the proper order of change.
Then, you export a convolution filter that corrects impulse and FR for that spot in the room. This filter can be imported as a plugin into a DAW or selected in a media engine such as JRiver.
This REALLY works well and I urge you all to try it. I deal with DIRAC as well and the REW approach is much more effective. Have not had luck with Sonarworks myself but would love to hear from others about its abilities.
Now REW can tune any number of spots in your studio/room, create a specific convolution file for that spot and then you can choose that file as necessary -- but this process is not as immediate as GLM and their architecture here is excellent.
REW does not allow for multiple mic spots for a single tuning/file creation as does DIRAC and others. I have never found this a liability because I always sit in a single space at a time BUT it is levied as a complaint against REW by others. No 5.1 treatments that I am aware of but DIRAC will do this and I have a DIRAC-tuned 5.1 system for movie video playback that sounds great.
REW offers individual EQ treatment for many processors (e.g., Emotiva's XMC-1) and you should check out their EQ page to see how well this is designed.
Sure that you are right about nulls but that is not what I am interested in and JohnP has described my situation -- you have a low region for a certain FR and you boost that area (using the right frequency and Q) then the overall response is brought back to 0db. ANY NUMBER of EQ products do this so the idea that boosting is somehow bad or impossible to do is simply not true. REW has a system for identifying the correct frequency in a trouble area that makes frequency selection easy.
Again, I have not heard back from Genelec but like the 8351s PLENTY and will try to use GLM as much as possible. It is certainly possible to plug the REW convolution file into your DAW or Media Center and still use GLM and the monitors.
Now here is how JRiver handles the very real issue of distortion from too large a boost -- they normalize the filter volume and this shifts the entire baseline downwards if you go past a defined limit. This also works very well and GLM could easily do this if they activated the boost part of their filter interface -- that does have the plus capability but is not activated.
I would suggest to them that they define a boost value that will not overtax their DSP, pre, and amplifier chain and, say, offer boosts up to a certain amount -- such as 5db. This design is used by many EQ engines and REW defines this for you automatically when you select a specific Equalizer (again, see their EQ page -- it is serious programming in action).
Am hoping for the best from GLM, love the monitors (am listening to today's piano takes right now) and would love to talk with them.
NOW, if we could get Genelec to produce an engine that will improve my piano playing/recording automatically we could be talking big money...
Old 1 week ago
  #354
Gear Head
 

Impulse question to Jargonfilter

Jargonfilter:
Your post above suggests that GLM creates impulse correction. But it did not do this for me and their documentation suggests that impulse correction is limited to aligning subs with the monitors. Does it actually do impulse correction for the stereo monitor image alone?
Use impulse correction with REW and you are right that it makes a TREMENDOUS difference -- perhaps even more improvement than FR correction.
Again, as noted above, when I shift back and forth using the Bypass tab, I can tell no difference in my GLM setup. My room is well treated and have all world class electronics (Gordon Pres, RME UFX converters, EndPCNoise computers, down the line).
But I can hear no difference from the subtle downwards FR corrections that GLM makes. Have looked at the changes made by GLM, used their Cloud engine to revise the corrections, and made small (downwards) adjustments myself in their interface to bring the FR closer to 0 db.
STILL, I can hear no difference. But if impulse correction was somehow available, know that it would be audible and would love to use this.
Old 1 week ago
  #355
Gear Head
 

REW and Genelec

Took the time this afternoon to do an analysis of the 8351 output with REW and the news is uniformly good.
Have been measuring studio and audiophile speakers for some 7 years now and have never seen response curves as good as the 8351. The EQ curves are good from 30-25k with no smoothing at all; if you use 1/24 smoothing they close in on a straight line after correction is made.
Keep in mind that this is equipment PLUS room response. Final results from 30-25k in the +/- 2.5db range are extraordinary (see the graph below). Essentially the signal and room are perfect at this level of accuracy.
The overall frequency contour of the two channels is similar to the FR shown in the GLM engine but there is additional data and accuracy in the REW measurements. Have learned to use a quality measurement mic (Earthworks QTC40) and studio conversion in order to ensure accuracy.
SO, there was not much audible improvement to expect in the resulting convolution file for frequency correction -- little is really needed in my particular studio. Have one area around 70 cps that benefits from some boost and this was easy to do.
HOWEVER there was a significant audible improvement to be made and it is in Impulse correction. When applied, the soundscape becomes clearer, more precise, and there is an added separation of instruments and, especially, of their sense of depth. This is a strong improvement and one that I will enjoy with JRiver files. REW supplies this impulse correction automatically as part of the file creation process.
SO(2), still have not been able to talk with Genelec but my major request to them would now be to see if they can add Impulse correction to the stereo only version of GLM. There is potential here and the added soundstage benefits would be helpful to any studio.
Good news, Genelec. This is one very accurate monitor...

Last edited by CraigL; 1 week ago at 05:08 PM.. Reason: Further Explanation
Old 1 week ago
  #356
Gear Head
 

Genelec FR, Left Channel

Here's a visual example of the left channel after correction -- serious accuracy here.
Attached Thumbnails
Genelec 8351 - Anyone else using these?-samplegenelecfrequencyresponse.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #357
Gear Addict
 
barbital's Avatar
Funny that I was looking at ADAMs and Focals etc.

Looks like these are the perfect monitor and they have superb extension both up and down.

These things are no marketing gimmick. I just spoke to someone on the phone regarding these and they said they wouldn't bother with anything else under $10k.
Old 1 week ago
  #358
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbital View Post
Funny that I was looking at ADAMs and Focals etc.

Looks like these are the perfect monitor and they have superb extension both up and down.

These things are no marketing gimmick. I just spoke to someone on the phone regarding these and they said they wouldn't bother with anything else under $10k.
Is there anything better above $10k, which isn’t bigger?

Old 1 week ago
  #359
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
Is there anything better above $10k, which isn’t bigger?

I believe there isn’t. I haven’t experienced better monitor apart from it being much much bigger, but even them it didn’t have the accuracy of 8351s.
Old 1 week ago
  #360
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
Once you get to the larger midfields and farfields, the room really needs to be designed around them. That’s the only way that will work.

Buying a set of speakers like the 8351’s and have the software iron out the kinks is the most realistic option for anybody who isn’t purposely building a control room or listening environment.
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