The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
About to replace my Lynx Aurora 16 with Burl mothership Digital Converters
Old 15th February 2016
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
Another Mothership/SPL Madison combo here. Amazing converters, really bumped up the quality of the projects I have been working on.

To comment on an earlier part of this thread, the Mothership CANNOT BE DAISY CHAINED via madi with other converters. Every other madi box I have used allows this, as it is a part of the Madi protocol, but for some reason Burl did not make this possible. I have had the mothership for 3 months and they just recently confirmed this.

So if you want to run other converters with the mothership, you will need the RME Madi FX card, or the Madi xt in order to use them as they have more than 1 Madi input. I was unfortunately using the non fx RME Madi PCI-E card which only has 1 input. Made the Burl investment that much higher, but I guess now I get the benefits of the dsp with the FX I REALLY wish this limitation would have been posted somewhere prior to purchase, as I have had to run my studio off of 8 i/o for awhile now and have lost what hair I had left on my head.
That's very good to know. Thanks for clarifying that.

I use the Madiface XT, and also recently purchased a SSL Alpha Link MADI SX for the 3rd port, after selling my MADI<->AES only converter. Unfortunately ithe Alpha Link is MADI optical only, as is the Mothership and Madison (which I think I bought from you).

I had to order the SSL MADI bnc to optical converter box for the Madiface XT. Damn things are pricey just for what it does!
Old 15th February 2016
  #32
Yup. Just trying to save someone else some uber frustration

How you likin the Madison?
Old 15th February 2016
  #33
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Since my mothership arrived a couple of weeks ago I've been unable to use it as my protools system needed upgraded to cope and I was too busy to get to it! As a result, the mastering engineer who rents a room in the complex, Zac of Zikis Mastering, has been undertaking a big shootout between Burl, Prism and Lynx Aurora. I'm sure he'll reveal his finding s soon.

Today was both installation day and a maintenance day in preparation for a big session that starts on Monday. As it all went relatively smoothly I took the opportunity to compare the Mothership and the Lynx Auroras directly (with my new system I have 16 i/o of aurora on the first 16 channels of API desk, 16 i/o of Burl on the second 16 of my desk, and the last 16 i/o of Aurora for my sidecar while tracking & for hardware inserts while mixing). I've worked on the Auroras for several years, have done a couple of sessions on the Burl and attended the Prism v Burl shootout at Metropolis last year but I hadn't before heard the Burl and Lynx back to back.

My rough and ready test told me that the AD is where the Burl shines. The lower mids particularly have more depth. There also seemed to be a high a noticeable high frequency roll off. By comparison the Aurora was slightly forward in the upper mids.

I then switched to a quick DA comparison. For this I multed a drum group simultaneously out to the Aurora on the left hand side of my desk and the Burl on the right hand side. After volume matching I could then just mute each side in turn to compare. Again, the Aurora was slightly upper mid forward. The burl DA, by contrast, was almost the opposite of the AD: while I had detected rolled off highs on the AD, on the DA the highs were bright and the transients seemed somehow excited.

Interesting stuff. Not entirely what I expected but not so far out of line that it really shocked me. If there was any surprise at all it was how bright the DA was.

Once the big shootout is published I'll drop a link here.
Awesome, looking forward to your guys' take on these converters side-by-side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
Made the Burl investment that much higher, but I guess now I get the benefits of the dsp with the FX
Hey man, what is being handled by the DSP on the RME card? Is it processing any plug-ins from any vendor in any format (AU, VST, etc) in the DAW one uses or is it for say their own mixer app or something. I didn't get a clear picture from what I read about those cards on their site as it said, "independent of what DAW one uses" but didn't go further to explain... and I'm still waking up

thanks
Old 15th February 2016
  #34
Lives for gear
 

My curiosity has been peaked by the possibility mentioned of using two different converters from different companies side by side. With a 2 MADI in interface, can you avoid phase/tiny timing issues by using, say, the burl mothership for 8/8 in/out and then something like an Orion 32 for additional I/o simultaneously?

I can't step into a 32/32 burl mothership, but could do a 8/8 version with less crucial tracks coming off/ going in to an other vastly more affordable AD/DA. Is this actually doable? Id settle for just the DA part...

I'd really appreciate the insight, and I apologize if this is OT.

Thank you,
Sean
Old 15th February 2016
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
My curiosity has been peaked by the possibility mentioned of using two different converters from different companies side by side. With a 2 MADI in interface, can you avoid phase/tiny timing issues by using, say, the burl mothership for 8/8 in/out and then something like an Orion 32 for additional I/o simultaneously?

I can't step into a 32/32 burl mothership, but could do a 8/8 version with less crucial tracks coming off/ going in to an other vastly more affordable AD/DA. Is this actually doable? Id settle for just the DA part...

I'd really appreciate the insight, and I apologize if this is OT.

Thank you,
Sean
You will still have very slight timing issues based on the differences in the converter processing. not much, I run the Burl along with RME 642(AES heaven) feeding Lucid 88192. was hoping to dump the 642 and clean up my system but the Burl AES seems a bit $$$.
Old 15th February 2016
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
Yup. Just trying to save someone else some uber frustration

How you likin the Madison?
It's great. I like it a lot. I've been using it primarily for my outboard gear in the studio for inserts, but have also been using it for remote classical recordings.
Old 15th February 2016
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
My curiosity has been peaked by the possibility mentioned of using two different converters from different companies side by side. With a 2 MADI in interface, can you avoid phase/tiny timing issues by using, say, the burl mothership for 8/8 in/out and then something like an Orion 32 for additional I/o simultaneously?

I can't step into a 32/32 burl mothership, but could do a 8/8 version with less crucial tracks coming off/ going in to an other vastly more affordable AD/DA. Is this actually doable? Id settle for just the DA part...

I'd really appreciate the insight, and I apologize if this is OT.

Thank you,
Sean

Hi Sean,

That's what I do. I'm using the Burl for main tracking and summing conversion (24 outs).

I've also got the SPL Madison for additional analogue I/O, and the SSL Alpha Link for AES/EBU connections, and more analogue I/O.

I have not split tracking across interfaces, so I can't say if that would cause issues, but my guess is that it may, say for tracking drums etc. I plan to eventually get more BAD4 cards (currently only have one). For now when I need more than 4 mics at a time for tracking, I'll use the Madison for ADC.
Old 15th February 2016
  #38
The RME FX uses their own plugins for monitoring while tracking not 3rd party. They run right off the card dsp prior to hitting the daw for effectively zero latency.

Haven't noticed any issues with timing of converters but I also have not split the same instrument across the two. I have had drums on 1 converter and say vocals on another though without any issues.
Old 15th February 2016
  #39
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
The RME FX uses their own plugins for monitoring while tracking not 3rd party. They run right off the card dsp prior to hitting the daw for effectively zero latency.
Gotcha. thanks for clarifying.
Old 15th February 2016
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
Hi Sean,

That's what I do. I'm using the Burl for main tracking and summing conversion (24 outs).

I've also got the SPL Madison for additional analogue I/O, and the SSL Alpha Link for AES/EBU connections, and more analogue I/O.

I have not split tracking across interfaces, so I can't say if that would cause issues, but my guess is that it may, say for tracking drums etc. I plan to eventually get more BAD4 cards (currently only have one). For now when I need more than 4 mics at a time for tracking, I'll use the Madison for ADC.
Squawk, thank you, that's just what I was wondering. I wouldn't try to track drums across two interfaces, and would probably keep playback of the 8 channels of burl to 4-5 drum tracks, bass, and lead vocals. This has been eye opening to me and I'm starting to get excited about this. I assume you have an old Mac that takes pci e MADI cards?
Old 15th February 2016
  #41
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

btw, what are you guys clocking to in these mulit-converter setups? Are you clocking to the Burl when recording? maybe switching the clock once you're mixing and using another converter for I/O? Clocking to the D/A that's going to the monitors/controller? have a separate clock to tie them together for convenience?

I've read dissenting opinions on clocks, and don't want to start a flame war here, but it seemed the internal clock of the converter being used was best vs external which always caused more jitter, but that it helps in multi-converter setups to avoid weird clicks and such in the audio—that was my take anyway from non-first-hand experience.

Just curious what you're doing to make all these things play nice together and for ease of use while you work.
Old 15th February 2016
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradivus View Post
btw, what are you guys clocking to in these mulit-converter setups? Are you clocking to the Burl when recording? maybe switching the clock once you're mixing and using another converter for I/O? Clocking to the D/A that's going to the monitors/controller? have a separate clock to tie them together for convenience?

I've read dissenting opinions on clocks, and don't want to start a flame war here, but it seemed the internal clock of the converter being used was best vs external which always caused more jitter, but that it helps in multi-converter setups to avoid weird clicks and such in the audio—that was my take anyway from non-first-hand experience.

Just curious what you're doing to make all these things play nice together and for ease of use while you work.
At the moment I'm clocking the Auroras to the Burl. Roundbadge mentioned in another thread he is enjoying the new BLA. When I get some free time I think I'll try 2 or 3 clocks out for myself. No sign of free time on the horizon right now though!
Old 15th February 2016
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradivus View Post
btw, what are you guys clocking to in these mulit-converter setups? Are you clocking to the Burl when recording? maybe switching the clock once you're mixing and using another converter for I/O? Clocking to the D/A that's going to the monitors/controller? have a separate clock to tie them together for convenience?

I've read dissenting opinions on clocks, and don't want to start a flame war here, but it seemed the internal clock of the converter being used was best vs external which always caused more jitter, but that it helps in multi-converter setups to avoid weird clicks and such in the audio—that was my take anyway from non-first-hand experience.

Just curious what you're doing to make all these things play nice together and for ease of use while you work.
I'm clocking from the Burl, fed to a Lucid GENx192 for wordclock distribution.

From there, it clocks the RME Madiface XT, SSL Alpha Link, Madison, Lynx Hilo, and a couple of Lucid sample rate/digital format converters. Bricasti and other digitally connected devices are clocked via AES/EBU.
Old 15th February 2016
  #44
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

Cool stuff. Thanks for the info guys.
Old 24th February 2016
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Hi,

Would you say that the automation option of the Sigma system is worth it compare to the classic DAW automation ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
We'll I guess I'll chime in here. I was using 2 Aurora 16 units and moved to the Burl Mothership.

I was also already using a B2 ADC, so I knew what I was getting into with the Mothership. The difference on the AD side was quite dramatic. Tracking through the B2 made things more present, bigger, and just better sounding.

I never found the Aurora's to be harsh or s***** at all, not how I would describe them. I think they sound nice.

I actually would have kept one of them for inserts and AES/EBU, but had to shuffle things a bit to get the Mothership. I've currently got 16 out (2xBDA8) and 4 in (1xBAD4) on the Mothership, but will be expanding that soon. I'm planning to buy a B2 again, as I find that having the input attenuator and metering on the front is something I miss with the Mothership input card.

I'm also using a 16x16 SPL Madison for hardware inserts, as I've got a lot of outboard.

Going out of the Mothership into a SSL Sigma for automation, then into a Burl B32. From there, analog master bus chain, half normalled into a Lynx Hilo and Korg MR-1000. Hilo AES out goes back into Cubase.

I've got my mothership and Madison connected to the computer via MADI, interface is the RME Madiface XT using external pcie.

So yes, the mothership is great! If you need AES/EBU though, you may consider keeping the Lynx and trying to integrate it into a Burl setup.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump