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Corona Virus / SARS / nCoV2019
Old 1 week ago
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
If you have a scientific source for this please post it in the sources thread.

To my knowledge the spike proteins are considered unique to nCoV, they just have short sequences that also occur in HIV - but too short to prove man made insertion AFAIK.
But I haven't read everything on that and it is an open question.

If there is proof that its not natural that certainly is a big issue, but still the biggest issue is what to do now.

And man made doesn't necessarily mean weapon.

I expect that this is a thing that can never be proved or disproved 100%.

But of course I cant know.
I think that one will remain in the subjective 'which sources do you trust' land, but there seem to be some scientists who say these things. Do a search.
Old 1 week ago
  #92
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Ive read (browsed) that paper from India that said they found these really short sequences from HIV in the spike proteins.
But the paper was withdrawn. I've also read (skimmed) other stuff, like this article.

So I don't know. I personally think it is very well possible. But what do we do with this knowledge if true? I mean now? It doesnt help us.
Old 1 week ago
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Ive read (browsed) that paper from India that said they found these really short sequences from HIV in the spike proteins.
But the paper was withdrawn. I've also read (skimmed) other stuff, like this article.

So I don't know. I personally think it is very well possible. But what do we do with this knowledge if true? I mean now? It doesnt help us.
Well, I for one would like all doctors on potential standby know exactly what they are dealing with.....whatever it is.
Old 1 week ago
  #94
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I think doctors would like to know themselves.

been to my doctor the other day cause of my worsening emphysema, she is pretty serious about it and my overall condition throughout,
just when I left, on the doorstep I mused aloud what with that if I am going to catch that new virus too, and that I've read the research papers.. and she answered, all of sudden pretty lightheartedly (much to lighthearted for my taste):
"Oh don't worry about that at all, it's just like the flu... [pause] - I mean similarly contagious as the flu - uhm, just the lethality rate is higher. Next please."

I think she wanted to routinely reassure me (what else could she do about it) but then realized that she can't fool me too much about that. And I don't think she has actually read any of these papers herself cause I don't think she has got any time for that. I assume it's just from the general info she has got, which seems to differ from the public narrative somewhat.

I think "it's just the flu" will be the words of the year.
Old 1 week ago
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
I think doctors would like to know themselves.

been to my doctor the other day cause of my worsening emphysema, she is pretty serious about it and my overall condition throughout,
just when I left, on the doorstep I mused aloud what with that if I am going to catch that new virus too, and that I've read the research papers.. and she answered, all of sudden pretty lightheartedly (much to lighthearted for my taste):
"Oh don't worry about that at all, it's just like the flu... [pause] - I mean similarly contagious as the flu - uhm, just the lethality rate is higher. Next please."

I think she wanted to routinely reassure me (what else could she do about it) but then realized that she can't fool me too much about that. And I don't think she has actually read any of these papers herself cause I don't think she has got any time for that. I assume it's just from the general info she has got, which seems to differ from the public narrative somewhat.

I think "it's just the flu" will be the words of the year.
What you just described beautifully there to me is the 'black cat from the Matrix' moment. lol. When the doc speels off the routine narrative thing and it decidedly runs into the sand, for a split second they notice themselves that the road ran out and they decked it, but not ever dwelling on what that might entail, just swiftly moving on, back into narrative automation. Spooky shlt, that.
Old 1 week ago
  #96
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BTW I think if you are interested in footage from the ground, you have to look for it now.
I doubt much disturbing footage will still be available by the end of the coming week.
There is plead for cencorship on so many channels.
The WHO itself declared that they have to work against "internet trolls" in their last statement.
But we dont have other independent sources on the ground than chinese people.

I won't post any footage, cause I've seen too much of it and don't have time and nerves to collect and post.

Did you know that Tencent had invested in reddit?
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/11/1...tank-man-china
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...peech-protests
Old 1 week ago
  #97
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Like I said, the world and what seems to be happening in it these days more than ever is entirely to do with which sources you believe.....very hard to tell what's what, who says what for what ends etc. But patterns will always be patterns, and they don't lie.
Old 1 week ago
  #98
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Quote:
just one question I do have: how do you determine what is 'fact'?
I rely mostly on peer reviewed papers, ideally findings that are confirmed or disputed or put in perspective by other papers from other sources.
And on orginal footage.

Sure, you still need to be sceptical of both.

What I consider a "fact" is something that can be proven independently, or was proven by a third party in case I cant reproduce or prove it myself.
Or was, at least, checked for methodology and consistency.

I used the word "fact" in the other thread mostly cause I didn't want mere speculation in it. Of course, I can't say for sure that whats published in these papers are all facts, but it is a fact that these papers were published, and that they were published in reputable outlets, and that they are consistent in what they say, and use scientific methods. And that they were published by people who had access to the data and expertise in the field.

So they are somewhat credible. Especially since they basically say: these are oure findings, but we dont know enough and more research has to be done.

That is in contrast to what the press does, which generally ignores all of these findings and all of the data. and much of the evidence and repeats sources of which we know they cant be trusted, like the CCP.

It's more difficult with the footage, but when video after video pops up that shows the same things happening at different times and places filmed by different people and smuggled out risking their freedom and lives, theres some credibility to it - means I have to consider that it might show what is claimed.

I don't speek mandarin or anything though, so I have to rely on third people.

So I have to remain sceptical about these things - I just compare credibility and likeliness. Use Ockhams razer too, though it doesn't really apply everywhere.

In other words - I cant say for sure what a fact is, but theres this word that reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.
So I try to figure that out.
Old 1 week ago
  #99
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Coolio. I assume you might have missed the "I" out of the last sentence, but then maybe not. Enjoy the speculative thread, I'll leave you to it.
Old 1 week ago
  #100
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Yes I ment I try to figure that out. But its also what people should do in genereal I guess.
Old 1 week ago
  #101
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Feel free to add to the other thread, but try to make it look like a "fact" I'd say.

What I basically wanted is not too much of what the press said, and "he said" and "she said" discussion.
Old 1 week ago
  #102
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How is the issue percieved in your country btw?

Just had some Germans go through the roof when I pointed to some scientific papers.
Really seriously.

In my observation Germans in general don't take it serious, they know everything better than the rest of the world and "it's just the flu". They get angry if you point them to what is known.

At the same time desinfectants and masks are sold out everywhere since a week minimum.

How is it in your country?
Old 1 week ago
  #103
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I am german, but I live in London since 92, so.....

Here they have just called out that there will be involuntary quarantining of the ill soon......not that there are many yet. There are a small handful as of right now. No deaths.

But yeah, general vibe here is likely similar to the germans, as in not really taking it seriously. Making jokes. I would usually be in that behavioural group, but not really feeling this one as funny. Feels like it might push quite a few things out of balance by the time it's run its course.....
Old 1 week ago
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl. Punishment View Post
Due to the nature of the industry I'm in I knew all the hysteria over Y2K was garbage --
This recent CoronaVirus scare has all the benchmarks of the Y2K scare. The chances of anyone in the US getting sick from the CoronaVirus is by the CDCs account pretty slim. And those odds are even lower for anyone in the US Dying. Still around here in NC I'm seeing people with Masks all the time. The RDU Airport is particularly silly with a certain percentage of travelers wearing masks.

Through out the breakout so far all I've heard from US Sources is fear mongering. And my Spideysense goes off the charts when ever the media uses fear tactics to sell advertising.


And the conspiracy part of me is wondering who is going to profit off the vaccine - and what greedy Pharmaceuitical is going to start charging $250 for 'Protection' - and then how many people in the FDA who are involved with approval of the vaccine know the origin company and have invested.

Because outside of China - I just see typical greed and profit taking going on in relationship to this recent virus.
Old 1 week ago
  #105
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RE Y2k scare - I dont see that kind of thing at all here. But I think its quite different in the US.

In Germany "it's just the flu" and colloquially, "the flu" is just the sniffles. A cold.
So it's really nothing at all according to media and government.

Of course in the west at the moment chances to catch it are really slim.
But chances that this will become a really bad global epidemic rather quickly are very high.

All data points to that.

And then, y2k actually was an issue, and got fixed in time, in several applications.
Of course we dont know for sure if it was in all ocassions, or if banks and such just got scammed back then.

But it actually is an issue again as y 2k2.0 bug in some 32 Bit apps this year, I've heard?


also, what vaccine? where can I buy it? 250,- ? no problem if it works I say...
pharma lobby is pretty shady, I know, but in this case I think the issues are quite different
Old 1 week ago
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
RE Y2k scare - I dont see that kind of thing at all here. But I think its quite different in the US.

In Germany "it's just the flu" and colloquially, "the flu" is just the sniffles. A cold.
So it's really nothing at all according to media and government.

Of course in the west at the moment chances to catch it are really slim.
But chances that this will become a really bad global epidemic rather quickly are very high.

All data points to that.

And then, y2k actually was an issue, and got fixed in time, in several applications.
Of course we dont know for sure if it was in all ocassions, or if banks and such just got scammed back then.

But it actually is an issue again as y 2k2.0 bug in some 32 Bit apps this year, I've heard?


also, what vaccine? where can I buy it? 250,- ? no problem if it works I say...
pharma lobby is pretty shady, I know, but in this case I think the issues are quite different
A vaccine against a bioweapon? hmmmmm....
Old 1 week ago
  #107
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post

And man made doesn't necessarily mean weapon.

I expect that this is a thing that can never be proved or disproved 100%.
If it was designed as a bioweapon - either on purpose or an accident that lent itself to be weaponized would probably never be confirmed. If it is a bioweapon imo it wouldn't be accidentally released but tested. Scary stuff if this is the case as equates to use as population control. Population control = Agenda 2030.
Old 1 week ago
  #108
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stop this bs pls - absolutely no need for spreading any conspiracy theory here!
Old 1 week ago
  #109
Sorry if this isn't the done thing but (if aimed at my me) I don't see my comment as spreading any conspiracy theory, merely an 'if' statement "if this is the case".
I uphold my concerns about Agenda 2030 though.
Old 1 week ago
  #110
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...for which you should get blocked/your comment deleted!
Old 1 week ago
  #111
Fair enough if the mods choose to delete but surely the whole thread and everyone posting in that case.
Old 1 week ago
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfantastic View Post
If it was designed as a bioweapon - either on purpose or an accident that lent itself to be weaponized would probably never be confirmed. If it is a bioweapon imo it wouldn't be accidentally released but tested. Scary stuff if this is the case as equates to use as population control. Population control = Agenda 2030.
While this could potentially make for a highly entertaining thriller, the sad boring truth is that Nature doesn't need the intervention of humans to kill the entire inhabitants of Earth. Viruses mutating and killing hundreds of thousands ( or more) of people is simply Nature going on its daily business, which is to change and evolve without taking in consideration what humans may consider "Good" , "Evil", "Harmful", and similar man-made notions. Viruses that mutate and spread faster than human technology can keep up with is entirely possible, and an unlucky ( for us ) configuration that may eradicate all human life is also entirely in the realm of the possible, and without necessating human intervention.

Not saying this is the case here, I think this variant may be be under control in a year or so ( according to researchers ), but seeing that it already surpassed SARS in death tolls, I expect the final count to be unfortuantely in the hundreds of thousands, especially in Africa.
Old 1 week ago
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
While this could potentially make for a highly entertaining thriller, the sad boring truth is that Nature doesn't need the intervention of humans to kill the entire inhabitants of Earth. Viruses mutating and killing hundreds of thousands ( or more) of people is simply Nature going on its daily business, which is to change and evolve without taking in consideration what humans may consider "Good" , "Evil", "Harmful", and similar man-made notions. Viruses that mutate and spread faster than human technology can keep up with is entirely possible, and an unlucky ( for us ) configuration that may eradicate all human life is also entirely in the realm of the possible, and without necessating human intervention.

Not saying this is the case here, I think this variant may be be under control in a year or so ( according to researchers ), but seeing that it already surpassed SARS in death tolls, I expect the final count to be unfortuantely in the hundreds of thousands, especially in Africa.
This thing has properties nature couldn't do without human intervention. Do some digging. This isn't 'from bats' or some other bs, this is out of a lab.
Old 6 days ago
  #114
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Only about six weeks ago, on the 2nd of January a cluster of 41 patients with pulmonary desease was identified in Wuhan.

Six weeks later 400 million people are in quarantaine, over 1000 are dead, over 45,000 cases confirmed, with several ten thousand suspected cases, only 5,100 recovered so far, while no one inlcuding the WHO is trusting these figures any more.

We still don't know much about the virus at this point. The assumed infection rate, the lethailty rate, the transmission paths, it's all unclear still.

Incubation period could be up to 24 days, asymptomatic infections are possible, LR is officially 4.9 in Wuhan, over 10% according to studies, up to 18% according to an estimate by the Imperial College, the virus spreads over air, and might survive on surfaces longer than 9 days. Base reproduction rate is higher than with influenza.

These 41 all had dispnoe, and we still don't know what percentage of people infected only have mild symptoms.

AFAIK we don't have 41 patients in that bad condition outside of China.
But the outlook is very bad.

On the other hand, an amazing amount of research has been done in that time.

So there is still hope left.

How are you going to spend the next six weeks?
Old 6 days ago
  #115
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Starting to feel decidedly uncomfortable in London, what with over 100000 chinese tourists visiting in the first 3 months of any given year alone.....
Old 5 days ago
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Starting to feel decidedly uncomfortable in London, what with over 100000 chinese tourists visiting in the first 3 months of any given year alone.....
Relax man..

Old 5 days ago
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Relax man..
and always remember: Ignorance Is Strength

How do you stay informed on the matter?
You have an idea how many are quarantined in England at the moment?
I lost track of that, cause there are already too many cases.

Meanwhile, in London, the story continued as follows:

Quote:
Person with confirmed coronavirus was at Westminster conference

Organisers contacting everyone who attended transport summit in central London venue

A person subsequently diagnosed with coronavirus was at a central London conference attended by more than 200 people last week, it has emerged, as authorities rush to trace those who may have come into contact with the patient.

The unknown individual attended the UK Bus Summit at the QEII Centre, one of London’s largest conference halls, in Westminster on February 6.
... ...
Public Health England is now attempting to trace the contacts of each of those confirmed to have been infected by the virus, by collecting detailed information on a person’s movements before they were diagnosed.

https://www.ft.com/content/0d1c0eb0-...0-43d18ec715f5
The other day I tried to get a prescription drug in Germany.
They told me it's unavailable, though in the end they sourced the last distributor who still had some in stock.
It's a standard drug that is usually available from many brands. Many people are dependent on that.

This might not even be directly related to the shortages that are starting to show up now,
but with most base chemicals made in China, and most pharmaceuticals made in India and China we will see more of such shortages soon.
Old 5 days ago
  #118
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I ate at an awesome Chinese food restaurant tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Old 5 days ago
  #119
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Ignorance is indeed strength. And war is peace. Hey ho. Brawndo's got electrolytes. Plants love it.
Old 5 days ago
  #120
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